The Official Albanian Agenda in Macedonia

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  • vicsinad
    Senior Member
    • May 2011
    • 2337

    The Official Albanian Agenda in Macedonia

    The three Albanian parties from Macedonia decided in Albania, with the Albanian president, the Albanian agenda going forward in Macedonia. How Macedonians react will likely have everlasting impacts for better or for worse.

    http://http://meta.mk/rasprava-za-im...-novata-vlada/

    Albanians to be considered a nation of the state;

    Use of the Albanian language in all levels of government;

    The Constitution to state that "the Macedonian language and the Cyrillic alphabet and the Albanian language and its alphabet are official languages ​​of the Republic of Macedonia";

    Comprehensive debate on the flag, anthem and coat of arms in order for "state symbols to reflect multiethnicity social and ethnic equality";

    Adoption of a resolution in Parliament condemning the genocide of Albanians in Macedonia in the period 1912-1956;

    Forming a state commission on municipal financing, decision-making eligible for government grants in favor of municipalities;

    Equitable representation in the security, military, intelligence and justice;

    Equitable representation at all levels of the central government and in public offices or enterprises with public actions;

    Complete oversight on issues and court proceedings as "Sopot", "Brodec," "Monster" and "Kumanovo" by an international committee of inquiry or an independent body;

    Settlement of the name dispute in accordance with European values ​​and principles of international law;

    Adopting a common and binding resolution in Parliament that Government is committed to being actively involved in resolving the name dispute;

    Inclusion of Albanians in the working group for direct negotiations with Greece;

    Inclusion of Albanians in the working group for direct negotiations with Bulgaria;

    Cooperation with Kosovo and Albania for integrated border management;

    Opening of new border crossings;

    Meeting these goals will be monitored by organizing a roundtable of Albanian parliamentary parties in accordance with the principle of rotation, which will serve as a platform for the harmonization of political action and transparent communication with international partners in Macedonia.
  • Phoenix
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 4671

    #2
    It appears that Zaev has opened up the mother of the proverbial can of worms with his alleged pandering for the shiptar vote.

    I don't know what to make of this situation, there's so much misinformation in the Macedonian media that it's hard to find your bearings in this shit-storm.

    Are those alleged demands and Zaev's alleged 'promises' even possible without a raft of referenda being thrown back at the electorate...?
    Last edited by Phoenix; 01-08-2017, 05:35 AM.

    Comment

    • Albo
      Member
      • May 2014
      • 304

      #3
      .............
      Last edited by Albo; 01-08-2017, 06:25 AM.

      Comment

      • Albo
        Member
        • May 2014
        • 304

        #4
        The Albanian parties know that most of these demands aren't possible due to them needing a two thirds majority in the parliament. (Which they won't get)
        They are simply aiming high and hoping for the best..


        Albanian Parties Set Terms For Macedonia's Next Govt


        Albanian parties in Macedonia on Saturday agreed their key conditions for participation in a future coalition government - in a move hailed by neighbouring Albania as 'historic'.


        Representatives of Macedonia's ethnic Albanian parties on Saturday in Skopje signed a joint declaration that will serve as a platform for their furture participation in any government that is formed following the December 11 general election.

        After weeks of discussion with each other and with Albania's Prime Minister Edi Rama and Foreign Minister, Ditmir Bushati, three of the four parties have agreed on seven conditions that they will put to the main Macedonian parties as conditions for joining a new coalition government.

        The election in December ended inconclusively after the ruling VMRO DPMNE party won 51 of the 120 seats and the main opposition Social Democrats, SDSM, won 49.
        Each bloc needs at least 61 seats to form a majority, which is why both sides are eyeing the 20 seats won by the four Albanian parties.

        The three parties - the Democratic Union for Integration, DUI, led by Ali Ahmeti, the Besa movement, led by Bilal Kasami, and the Movement for Reform - Democratic Party of Albanians, LR PDSH, led by Ziadin Sela - which together have 18 seats - seek full equality between Macedonians and Albanians in the Macedonian state.
        "The constitution of Macedonia should define the Macedonian language ... and the Albanian language ... as official languages [throughout] the Republic of Macedonia," the declaration reads.

        They call for the adoption of a resolution in parliament that condemns what they called "the genocide against Albanians in Macedonia during the 1912 – 1956 period." [The Kingdom of Serbia seized Macedonia from the Ottoman Empire in 1912.]

        The declaration goes on to demand economic and social development parity through the equal progress of all of Macedonia's regions.

        They also seek the creation of a new ministry that will supervise "respect for the rights of communities and economic and social equality in regions that have not been favoured [previously]".
        As another point, the parties want investigative commissions and independent international bodies involved in important court cases in which ethnic Albanians are involved.

        A solution to the vexed issue of Macedonia's state name - which Greece contests - is required in another point of the declaration, as is the involvement of Albanians in a working group between Macedonia and Bulgaria, as a means of improving Macedonia's relationships with its neighbours.
        Finally, the three parties want Macedonia's virtually stalled EU and NATO membership processes speeded up.

        "Fulfillment of these objectives will be overseen through a roundtable of Albanian parties, a mechanism that is going to be formed," the declaration reads.
        Albania's Foreign Ministry welcomed the joint declaration and confirmed its supporting role.
        "Albania has always been interested in a stable, functioning and democratic Macedonia, which is part of Euro-Atlantic processes and we will support any initiative that leans in this direction," a statement read.
        Albanian Prime Minister Rama took to social networks to hail the agreement as well.

        "The joint will of the Albanian parties in Macedonia is an historic step: the rights of Albanians will not be negotiated for seats in government," he wrote on Facebook.

        - See more at: http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti....1dhys4RR.dpuf

        Comment

        • DraganOfStip
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2011
          • 1253

          #5
          Of course.
          The Albanian parties that came up with this "platform" surely know their demands are impossible and this will pave the way for new elections.
          I don't think Grujo or Zajko are that stupid to call the wrath of the Macedonian people upon them by accepting this nonsense.
          Fresh elections in sight...
          ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
          ― George Orwell

          Comment

          • Phoenix
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2008
            • 4671

            #6
            What's your view on all of this Albo...could Zaev have really pulled off the scam of the century by promising so much to the Albanians knowing very well that he would struggle to deliver anything at all to them...and then this latest posturing by the Albanian parties, is it a desperate attempt to win favour in their community by pretending they have their people's best interests at heart.

            Comment

            • Albo
              Member
              • May 2014
              • 304

              #7
              Zaev hasn't promised the Albanians anything!

              Has nothing in his party platform that mentions anything about advancing the status of the Albanians..

              He has never come out and said he will do anything specifically..

              He refused to release the "bombs" which were sensitive to the Albanians eg, Sopot, Monster, Brodec, Kumanovo ..which apparently (unofficially) was one of the main reasons how he got Albanians to be candidates in his party (after they heard the recordings)

              So the main reason Albanians voted for him was simply because they got nothing positive out of Gruevski, he's very unpopular amongst Albanians..

              He isn't seen as a unifying figure who respects Albanians or their wishes at all..
              He has divided the people with his actions and decisions ( especially his choices of budgetary distribution, and foreign investment distribution) which have totally discriminated Albanian regions.

              Not to mention many of the recordings that show how high VMRO officials like Jankulovska calling Albanians, "Indijanci" (Indians) ect

              There are way more reasons as to why Albanians would choose LSDM over VMRO even if LSDM offered them nothing at all..

              Comment

              • Tomche Makedonche
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2011
                • 1123

                #8
                Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
                I don't think Grujo or Zajko are that stupid to call the wrath of the Macedonian people upon them by accepting this nonsense.
                "the wrath of the Macedonian people" Thanks for that Dragi, I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

                I think you underestimate the desperation of Zajko to obtain power, if he declines to these terms and opts for another round of elections, SDS will loose the Albanian contingent of their votes, giving DPNE a greater majority through their paid electorate. Then there's the previous non-voters who will likely turn up and lean towards DPNE due to Grujo's "nationalistic" platform knowing now the alternative based on what the Albanian's have declared to achieve. I would say heading for fresh elections works in Grujo's favour. If Zajko wants in, he needs to make a deal otherwise he stands to loose whatever ground he has gained.
                Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 01-08-2017, 06:28 PM.
                “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #9
                  Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                  The three Albanian parties from Macedonia decided in Albania, with the Albanian president
                  In Albania, with the Albanian president!

                  I would call the foreign intervention something verging upon a declaration of war.

                  But it's the Balkans and Macedonians would accept this as normal.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8531

                    #10
                    The proposals are quite minor in comparison to the changes made under the FA. Most of them were actually part of the FA but haven't been implemented due to incompetence more than patriotism. I can't see Gruevski or Zaev providing anything other than some fake opposition to them and then letting them pass "under pressure" from the EU etc.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • DraganOfStip
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 1253

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
                      ... if he declines to these terms and opts for another round of elections, SDS will loose the Albanian contingent of their votes, giving DPNE a greater majority through their paid electorate. Then there's the previous non-voters who will likely turn up and lean towards DPNE due to Grujo's "nationalistic" platform knowing now the alternative based on what the Albanian's have declared to achieve. I would say heading for fresh elections works in Grujo's favour. If Zajko wants in, he needs to make a deal otherwise he stands to loose whatever ground he has gained.
                      Couldn't agree more, you're spot on.

                      It is more than certain that Grujo (after getting the mandate today) will decline the Albanian platform, as he indeed should.
                      By law, the mandate will be then given to the second-largest party, in this case SDSM and their satellite coallition parthers.

                      And from here on, it is a clear lose-lose situation for Zajko:
                      1) Accepting the platform would mean committing political suicide, because there will be even larger protests on the streets against such treachery,the "neutral" and many pro-SDSM will lean towards DPMNE and SDSM will most likely never win another seat ever again.
                      2) Declining it would mean going to new elections in which he will lose the Albanian votes and this would give Grujo another 4 years of unchallenged dictatorship.

                      Faced with these 2 options,the reasonable decision would be the one with far less long-term consequences.
                      ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                      ― George Orwell

                      Comment

                      • Albo
                        Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 304

                        #12
                        Written by Safer Tahiri - Albanian Journalist

                        Malku politicka istorija!

                        1991- se formira tehnicka vlada, vo nea ucestvuvaat ministri Albanci

                        1992- Lubco Georgievski i VMRO ne sakaa dvajca ministri da i dadat na PDP. Potoa PDP imase poveke ministri. Ne se podeli Makedonija. Makedoncite ne izgubija nisto!

                        1997- Denesnite vodaci na VMRO, togasni studentski i srednoskolski lideri izvikuvaa "Gasni komori za siptarite". Se legalizira Pedagoskata Akademija vo Pedagoski Fakultet. Ne se podeli Makedonija. Makedoncite ne izgubija nisto!

                        2001- Se osniva Univerzitetot na Jugoistocna Evropa vo Tetovo. Ne se podeli Makedonija. Makedoncite ne izgubija nisto! Naprotiv,vo ovie 15 godini mnogu Makedonci studiraat na ovoj renomiran univerzitet. Od 2008 godina predavam paralelno na Albanski i na Makedonski jazik na ovoj univerzitet i spored moite moznosti, sum se obidol iskustvoto da im go prenesam na studentite od site etnicki zaednici.

                        2001- Abdurahman Aliti bese predlozen za pretsedatel na Sobranieto. Ke bese izbran ako glasea site pratenici Albanci. Nemase da bide cudo, a Makedoncite i Albancite ke dadea nov kvalitet na multietnickite institucii.

                        2001- Se sluci konflikt, se postigna Ohridskiot dogovor. Dojde do promena na Ustavot i mnogu zakoni. Ne se podeli Makedonija. Makedoncite i Albancite dobija mir i stabilnost!

                        2002- Se vodi golema debata koj ke bide potpretsedatel na Sobranieto. Dali ke bide nekoj komandant na ONA? Stana Hisni Sakiri, potoa generalot na ONA, Gzim Ostreni i na kraj komandant Msusi-Rafis Aliti.

                        2004- Se sluci nova teritorijalna podelba. Nekoi politicari i intelektualci izvikuvaa "Se deli Makedonija, ova e federalizacija". Ne se sluci ni ednoto, ni drugoto.

                        2004- Se oficijalizira Tetovskiot Univerzitet. Duri se preimeni i vo drzaven! Mnogu Makedonci, osobeno od Tetovo studiraat na ovoj univerzitet. Branitelite studiraat besplatno!

                        2008- Se izglasa Zakonot za jazicite. Albanskiot jazik dobi status na sluzben jazik (iako ogranicen). Ne se sluci cudo. Makedoncite ne izgubija nisto. Albancite dobija edno prirodno, fundamentalno pravo.

                        2011- Minister za odbrana stana Fatmir Besimi. se velese ne moze so odbrana da rakovodi minister, koj e poranesen pripadnik na UCK- ONA. Ama vo 2013 stana Talat Daferi- Komandant Forina.

                        2017- ke se dogovara novata Vlada, Albancite ke gi imaat svoite prava. Makedoncite nema da gubat nisto. Makedonija nema da se deli. Ke ziveeme vo mir i blagosostojba. Razbira se, ako sakame!

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                        Comment

                        • Stevce
                          Member
                          • Jan 2016
                          • 200

                          #13
                          So Albania, Kosovo and the three Albanian parties in Macedonia get together and come up with a set of rules to form government. This is a clear act of aggression and an initial attempt at a greater Albania. It is an act of clear treason an act of aggression from a foreing country.

                          Saudi Arabia backs these parties along with the new mosques built in Macedonia spreading Wahhabism.
                          Albanians refuses to acknowledge that the people of Gora are Macedonian.
                          The Albanian government recognizes as Macedonian only the minority living in the Prespa area and excludes Macedonians living in other areas. Land exchanged in 1919 which we should exchange back.
                          Macedonia took in over 300,000 Kosovo refugees in 1999.
                          2001 NLA attacks Macedonia.
                          Macedonia calls for census regularly but Albanians refuse, due to the fact that they make up 15% of the population not 30%.
                          Albanian parties have made it clear that they do not want equal rights but to take over the country. If they want a greater Albania go to Albania and make it a great country. If you want to live in Macedonia, learn Macedonia as your first language, be proud of the flag and anthem, and by all means learn Albanian as a second language at school or at home and be proud of your background but do no enforce it on everyone else.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            In Albania, with the Albanian president! I would call the foreign intervention something verging upon a declaration of war.
                            I was thinking the same thing. That and those completely unreasonable "demands" are tantamount to a direct challenge to the Macedonians.
                            - Albanians to be considered a nation of the state
                            Albanians have a nation-state, it's called Albania.
                            Comprehensive debate on the flag, anthem and coat of arms.....Inclusion of Albanians in the working group for direct negotiations with Greece....Inclusion of Albanians in the working group for direct negotiations with Bulgaria...
                            That is a Macedonian matter. Nothing to do with ethnic Albanians.
                            Use of the Albanian language in all levels of government.......The Constitution to state that "the Macedonian language and the Cyrillic alphabet and the Albanian language and its alphabet are official languages ​​of the Republic of Macedonia"
                            Ridiculous suggestion for an ethnic minority. And even if they increase in numbers, the Macedonian republic was established as the nation-state of the Macedonian people and that should never be subject to discussion. If ethnic Albanians want an Albanised society then they should go to Albania or Kosovo. Macedonia must remain Macedonian.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Tomche Makedonche
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2011
                              • 1123

                              #15
                              Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
                              It is more than certain that Grujo (after getting the mandate today) will decline the Albanian platform, as he indeed should.
                              I wouldn't be too sure of that, if Grujo fails to form a new government and passes the buck to Zajko (who seems like he will sell his own mother to obtain power), Grujo (not to mention his executive team) is basically going to gaol, I think that's pretty much guaranteed, which also puts him in a pretty desperate situation.

                              I think this all lies with what he can work out with Ahmeti, it looks like he is the true "king maker" in this situation. Both DUI and DPNE stand to loose face with their constituents if they agree to form a coalition again, Ahmeti would face a pretty big backlash if he concedes any ground on the united Albanian approach, I also have no doubt Grujo would have some dirt on him. It comes down to whether Ahmeti chooses to play ball and loose face with DPNE, or win back favour by rejecting any compromises and securing a joint coalition with SDS and BESA. The smart move (from an Albanian point of view) by Ahmeti would be to go the SDS route, who as I said, stand to loose ground if they go to elections again so most likely will just agree to whatever demands the Albanians have (probably just write it off that most are part of the OFA anyway, which I assume is the same route Grujo would take), and face some public backlash for a day or two before Macedonians shrug their shoulders and go back to business as usual. If Grujo subsequently ends up spilling some dirt on Ahmeti as a result, I'm sure SDS will just get the SJO to exonerate him of any charges (which no doubt Ahmeti would want assurances from before opting the SDS route). Again, excluding Ahmeti's personal circumstances, from an Albanian persepective, the SDS route would seem more favourable for DUI.

                              If DUI and DPNE form a new government, then I think that pretty much guarantees Grujo has something considerably unforgiving on Ahmeti. Likewise if Grujo accepts all of the Albanian demands, then clearly this exposes him for what he really is, that his so called "nationalistic" rhetoric has just been a façade all along and really he is simply afraid to go to gaol and will do anything to remain in power and try and weather out the storm.

                              Just my current thoughts.
                              Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 01-12-2017, 07:32 PM.
                              “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

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