Origins of the modern 'Greek' flag

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    #16
    I have heard that too, but what precedence is there for a flag with such stripes, and for such colours? The only one I can think of is the Bavarian flag(s), given the obvious Bavarian influence at the eve of modern Greece's creation.

    They have the cross as a symbol, so do several other states across the world. I see nothing unique, and certainly nothing with historical precedence, not even the colours.

    Where are the flags of 'Hellas' from the last 2,000 years? In the absence of this, where are their coat of arms? There are none, from what I have seen thus far. Of course, if any Greek can prove me wrong, I would like to see it.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #17
      Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
      I have heard a theory about the Greek flag.... that the white and blue stripes represents the sky and the sea.... also that they represent the syllables in "eleftheria i thanatos"(freedom or death, the slogan used during the war of independence).
      "eleftheria i thanatos"
      "bavaria is my wet dream(os)"

      I smell a conspiracy theory here.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Spartan
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1037

        #18
        Heres a list of Greek flags from Wiki, make of it what you will-

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #19
          Unfortunately, some are from the East Roman Empire, which hardly qualify for exclusively Greek or Hellenic symbols, most are post-1820's, while the few that are pre-1820's do not have a source or link, so I am a little reserved. Do you know if there is any further information on the pre-1820's? For example, a link to where the flag reportedly used by the Sipahi is cited?

          I was looking for something more like the below link:

          Грбот на Александар Македонски е присутен во европска&


          You will see that the yellow and red colours, and the rampant lion has been used as a symbol of Macedonia for centuries on end, and cited by various people.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Spartan
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1037

            #20
            I know Wiki isnt that reliable, I merely posted the link as a general source.
            Im sure there is more reliable and in-depth sources out there about Greek flags, and the history behind them.

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #21
              In Kolokotronis memoirs (how much of it is true and not deviated) he makes mention of ;

              Our flag had the same cross as that of the Russian banners.
              page 120

              Russia was the first to rile the Albanians up to fight the Turk. So it would not be so surprising that what ended up becoming the revolutionary flag was in fact inspired by those Russian banners.

              And I have seen a few people post this once before - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

              Apparently the flag of the East India Company is strikingly similar to todays modern "greek" flag.
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                #22
                The East India flag is very similar, but I am unaware of any relation between the two.

                The citation of Kolokotronis' memoir is interesting, I only have a few excerpts from his memoirs, do we have anything more on the above regarding the Russian banners?

                Should we start looking into to Russian naval banners from the 18th century?
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • TrueMacedonian
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 3810

                  #23


                  Well I can tell you the similarities are there if this is what Kolokotroni saw between the naval flag or St. Andrews flag and their revolutionary flag. There are even similarities in the "first alleged russian flag" with the modern "greek" revolutionary flags.

                  If this happens to be true then the revolutionary grk flag was of Slavic influence.
                  Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #24
                    Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
                    If this happens to be true then the revolutionary grk flag was of Slavic influence.
                    Which would be a slavic knife in the crusty heart of the poor Greek identity. Oh my, that would surely kill them. Lord knows how the Slavs are the mortal enemy of the Greek.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #25
                      From Napoleon's initial post on this thread:

                      Early variants of the Flag and colours of the German state of Bavaria.





                      An old Bavaria Royal naval jack.



                      The Royal Flag of Greece with the Bavarian Coat of Arms.



                      The Modern Flag of Bavaria.




                      And then we have the Russians................

                      From the 1710's onwards, the Russian used the below for a Naval flag:


                      And appearing for the first time (apparently) during the uprising in the Morea in the late 1760's is the following:



                      Very interesting, why did it first appear in 1769????

                      Well, let me tell you.....


                      Russian emissaries were sent to Mani in the mid-1760s, to make a pact with the local leaders who represented the strongest military force in Greece at the time. In 1769, during the Russo-Turkish War, a fleet of 14 warships commanded by count Aleksey Grigoryevich Orlov sailed from the Baltic Sea for the Mediterranean. The fleet reached Mani in February 1770, prompting the Maniots to raise their war flags. 50 Russian soldiers remained to help fight in the ground war, while the fleet sailed on to the Aegean Sea.
                      Hhmmmm...............
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • TrueMacedonian
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 3810

                        #26
                        If it is indeed true then RTG said it best "it would be a slavic knife in the crusty heart of the poor Greek identity."
                        Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #27
                          If it is not taken as a direct copy (with some minor editions) from the Russians and/or Bavarians, the Greek flag is no doubt inspired by Russians and/or Bavarians.

                          Keep in mind that there was no Greece, hence no Greek army. There were sea merchants, who were under the military 'tutelage' (if one would call it that) of the Russians and/or Bavarians, and hence their influence. They were the people that the sea merchants of Morea looked up to, admired, and ultimately copied.

                          Unless of course there is a precedence for the Greek flag prior to the Russians and Bavarians......no luck finding anything so far.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #28
                            Here is another gem from TM, which fits nicely with the above, apparently taken from the memoirs of Kolokotronis.



                            Russian Flag + Bavarian Flag = Greek Flag.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Atesh
                              Junior Member
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 27

                              #29
                              The first "King" of Greece was "Bavyera Prer si Otto". He's a Bavarian. In 1814-1815, European Concert named, Prer si Otto king of Greece after 15 years of strategy by England, French and Russian in European Concert for give indepandance to Greece for use it like a satellite. In 1830, Ottoman Empire must recognize Greece and first king isn't greek, but Bavarian. Russia wanted Istanbul, so say to greek separatist, we will give you Istanbul. Russian wanted Greece like a pawn.

                              "Source: Political suicide of Turkey New-Ottoman's trap"
                              Do not be afraid of telling the truth. (Mustafa Kemal Atatürk)

                              Comment

                              • Coolski
                                Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 747

                                #30
                                Hey guys don't forget to consider the flag of the East India Trading company.

                                - Секој чоек и нација има можност да успеат колку шо си дозволуваат. Нема изговор.
                                - Every human and nation has the ability to be as great or as weak as they allow themselves to be. No excuses.

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