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Old 01-11-2018, 11:58 PM   #21
Tomche Makedonche
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I don't think Macedonia is getting into NATO either.
There’s no guarantee that’s for sure, especially when you factor in RoM conceding to Greece’s request would open the door for the rest of the Balkan retards to add their own demands to the table (something the “West” will in time come to regret about its policy stance), but a push towards NATO membership seems to currently exist nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
There is no threat to Greece either way. Even if there was, its security is only guaranteed as long as the US is prepared to guarantee it (NATO or not). In fact, Europe's security is only guaranteed for as long as the US is prepared to intervene. Outside of the UK, Europe (or the western half) is no longer willing to protect itself and I think that this has been obvious for a few decades now.
Well isn't that what NATO has essentially become though?, a US military guarantee of the state’s security? (the trade-off being aligning to the “Wests” interests)

RoMacedonia has never been any kind of military threat to Greece, but that’s how Greece has been selling its stance to the world in order to conceal its real perceived threat to its sovereignty, being the promotion and reanimation of its Macedonian minority, something many western states (United Kingdom, France, Spain, Germany, etc) sympathise with.

The US is now simply choosing to proceed by catering to Greece’s conveyed public stance to the dispute in order to achieve its own interests.

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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I think NATO's interest in Macedonia is very weak as well. Besides, Macedonia fully cooperates with NATO/EU interests regardless of whether its a member or not. The only difference to NATO that Macedonian membership would make is that it would then need to provide both funding and security guarantees with nothing new in return.
I agree, NATO’s interests in RoMacedonia is very weak, but the interest is still there, not because RoMacedonia has any real value (it doesn’t, if it actually did it would have already been a member), but because the political debacle over the last three years has given rise to the perception of Russian influence in the region (although the only real Russian interest was in Crna Gora), and just like in the cold war days (particularly with Russia now seeming more relevant in US politics), the mere idea of a perception existing is more than enough to spur the US to action.

Is NATO membership a US necessity?, no, not really, as you said RoM already cooperates with NATO/EU interests, but the fact that a perception of Russian interest publicly exists will need to be counteracted in order to prevent the wrong kind of message being promoted in respect of the “West’s” hegemony over developing Europe (can’t allow the perception that competition exits and there may be alternatives), also, if the “West” excludes itself from RoM, there is the potential for conflict to erupt (especially when taking into account other powers would seek to fill in that void), which could spread regionally, which again would not be in the interests of the EU, nor the US, since it is the US military who would have to come in and mop that mess up (being the guarantor of Europe’s security).

In light of the above, unfortunately it would seem to be in the “West’s” interests to have to exert some diplomatic effort into alleviating such threats and occurrences.

How high up is it on the US’s list of priorities?, probably somewhere around the need to fix the plumbing in its Ugandan Embassy’s toilet, but it’s still on the list nonetheless.

Add to that RoM has now acquired a proud globalist yes man as a leader, its probably the most opportune timing to try and turn some screws whilst exhausting the most minimal effort

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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I think its a bad deal (to quote Trump) for them.

I don't think Macedonia's name change will reap any 'reward' for them at all (if NATO/EU membership can even be considered beneficial - I think its highly debatable).
Personally I tend to agree, but it’s not me that needs convincing.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:12 AM   #22
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https://www.sbs.com.au/news/greek-pm...donia-name-row

Greek PM asks church for restraint in Macedonia name row

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras requested restraint from the country's influential Orthodox church amid renewed efforts to resolve a 27-year name row with neighbouring Macedonia

The move came a day after the church said it was opposed to any compromise including the name 'Macedonia', which is also the name of a northern Greek province over which wars were fought a century ago.

"I hope you will contribute...so that Greece, in a spirit of unity and rational speech, will successfully deal with the issue...without the mistakes of the past," Tsipras wrote to the head of the Church of Greece, Archbishop Ieronymos.

Hopes of a solution to the issue, which dates from 1991, were revived after a new government was elected in Skopje last year determined to bury the hatchet with Athens, in return for a NATO seat.

"I believe it's possible to find a solution by the end of the first semester of 2018," Macedonia Prime Minister Zoran Zaev told Greece's Alpha TV over the weekend.

Ahead of a new round of UN talks next week, Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias and his Macedonia counterpart Nikola Dimitrov met behind closed doors in Thessaloniki on Friday.

Greece and the EU recognise the small landlocked country by its provisional name, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), under which it was also admitted to the UN.

Skopje has long insisted that this designation was only provisional.

In Greece, there is already opposition in the north of the country to any solution including the name Macedonia, and the issue may split the Greek parliament, which will be called upon to ratify any deal.

Defence Minister Panos Kammenos, the government's nationalist coalition partner, is also opposed to such a solution.

But Kotzias this week hinted that with over 100 nations already recognising the tiny Balkan state as Macedonia, options are limited.

"The baby is 25 years old, it has already been baptised," Kotzias told Antenna TV on Monday.

"We want to add...a composite name in a way that (the country) will be distinct from Greek Macedonia," he said.

Both sides have declined to comment on speculation that New Macedonia will be the chosen compromise.

On Monday, Kotzias noted that the name Nova Makedonija is among proposals floated in the past.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:43 AM   #23
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Well said.

I share the sentiment, as I'm sure has become apparent. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to justify spending my valuable and exceedingly sparse time, as well as my nerves, giving a shit about any of it. I don't know about others, but I have taken this roller coaster to heart. It was a cause that my father held dearly, one that was basically ingrained in me from birth. Sometimes I am thankful that he didn't live to see what has become of that pathetic lot. He only lived long enough to witness the political capitulations of 2001, back when there was still some hope that Macedonians would somehow overcome their pathetic leaders and turn the country around. Today, we are well past a naive and cowardly political elite, you have to question whether there are actually Macedonians in existence.

At the end of the day, how can you blame our enemies for saying we don't exist, we have done everything in our power to ensure that we don't exist. We don't think or behave like a distinct and conscious group of people, and if we are at that point, then I guess we have just become a theoretical exercise, to one day be studied by history majors, or more likely, psychology majors.

We should start practicing referring to Macedonians in the past tense. I for one would rather be a bastard with out a identity, than having to explain to people what the fuck a New Macedonian is.

I hope the change the name to something totally obnoxious, then I hope they never get into the EU or NATO. Then when they have lost all hope, sunk as low as they can, given away everything there was to give away, maybe then they will finally get it through their fat fucking heads that this is what happens when you don't stand for anything, you are left with nothing.

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That's probably more true than you realise. The fact that Macedonia survived the first few years of independence and didn't revert to some form of union with Serbia probably had more to do with wider Macedonian mobilisation against Greek chauvinism than any real desire for freedom. Yes, there will always be a core group of patriots, but Macedonian nationalism (the real meaning of the word not the media meaning of the word) has been described as more of a reactionary survival instinct than some form of pride or desire for freedom. And I tend to agree with that observation for the most part.

While Greece's contrived name issue is quite the masterstroke, what they failed to realise is that their action only prolonged Macedonia's existence and drove Macedonian nationalism. If they just did nothing and waited it out, I hate to say that Macedonians may very well have joined some form of confederation very early on. I know that my own passion for Macedonian rights grew out of anger at what Greece was doing. Had it not been for that, I probably would not have found much interest in a country 20,000 km away, other than knowing that's were my parents came from.

But admittedly, that passion is slowly dying - if it isn't dead already. The past 25 years have taught me that this current generation of Macedonians will do anything to stay enslaved. What rot! Macedonia now feels more like an academic curiosity of a failed state and a dying identity. A massive disappointment to say the least.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:06 AM   #24
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I can say Tomche Makedonche of post#18 is totally right and Vangelovski of post#19 is totally wrong. Also Tomche of post#21 is partly wrong. USA is VERY interested. I will only copy an older post of mine.


The Americans and the European Union are well established everywhere in the Balkans. You should expect them to fight like dogs for all energy issues involving Russia. That’s what they did in Greece back in 2008 when they simply had to overthrow either the Greek or the Bulgarian government in order to cancel the Burgas- Alexandroupolis pipeline project. Yet, they managed to change both governments.

Even though this was an insignificant issue for them they fought and fought hard about it and won by far. On the contrary this issue was more important for Greece but we didn’t stay united and we didn’t fight hard enough for our country. That probably explains how one becomes master or servant.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:11 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Gocka View Post
I hope the change the name to something totally obnoxious, then I hope they never get into the EU or NATO. Then when they have lost all hope, sunk as low as they can, given away everything there was to give away, maybe then they will finally get it through their fat fucking heads that this is what happens when you don't stand for anything, you are left with nothing.
And then I'd like to kick them in the nuts, to add injury to insult.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
I can say Tomche Makedonche of post#18 is totally right and Vangelovski of post#19 is totally wrong. Also Tomche of post#21 is partly wrong. USA is VERY interested. I will only copy an older post of mine.


The Americans and the European Union are well established everywhere in the Balkans. You should expect them to fight like dogs for all energy issues involving Russia. That’s what they did in Greece back in 2008 when they simply had to overthrow either the Greek or the Bulgarian government in order to cancel the Burgas- Alexandroupolis pipeline project. Yet, they managed to change both governments.

Even though this was an insignificant issue for them they fought and fought hard about it and won by far. On the contrary this issue was more important for Greece but we didn’t stay united and we didn’t fight hard enough for our country. That probably explains how one becomes master or servant.
On election day, do greeks get an email or text message telling them who to vote for?
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:37 AM   #27
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USA is VERY interested
Lol Greeks and their delusions of grandeur always make me laugh...
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:46 AM   #28
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Lol Greeks and their delusions of grandeur always make me laugh...
The greeks have disrupted the global supply of plates, which is affecting the American hospitality industry (and boosting Chinese manufacturers). That's why Washington is VERY interested.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:59 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
The greeks have disrupted the global supply of plates, which is affecting the American hospitality industry (and boosting Chinese manufacturers). That's why Washington is VERY interested.
US Secretary of State: Mr President, we have just received intel that North Korea has just tested a new ballistic missile over the pacific which would have the capability of hitting any city on the United States mainland

President: Enough with that, tell me more about Greece!... oh and also that other country, um.. Macadamia?
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:10 AM   #30
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US Secretary of State: Mr President, Greece has just catapulted a plate the size of a football field over Turkey.

President: Send in the 7th Fleet. And get me that Zazo guy on the phone.
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