Macedonians Storm Parliament

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  • DraganOfStip
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 1253

    #31
    Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
    I'm pretty sure he also served as defense minister, right? I don't know if the protestors stormed because he was voted speaker, or because the anthem was sung, or because the fact that a speaker was elected...
    Funny, I don't remember any of these people storming the parliament back when DPMNE assigned the very same Talat Xhaferi for Defence Minister. Back then you could only see Stojanche Angelov and his group of 2001 veterans peacefully protesting for several days, no support from others, no screams of coup, no hype, no nothing. But then again, no politicians' asses needed to be saved from jail in order for Stojanche to get the needed support.

    Originally posted by Odi Zvezdo View Post
    As a diaspora, we have always said that the people of Macedonia do not show enough grunt, there's no patriotism in there purely and simply because they did not fight for their countries during the break up of Yugoslavia...
    Yes, diaspora people always are more patriotic than their kin back home. Anyone that left Macedonia for a better future seems to know what is best for the homeland and does the occasional "солење памет" every now and then, somehow forgetting why they left Macedonia in the first place. I even noticed that some of my friends that emigrated in a search for better life now support Grujo in this whole thing,the same guy they ran away from. I don't know if it's a case where the nostalgia for your homeland switches your mind to patriot mode and make you forget all the injustice and bullshit you had to take from all the politicians that you now start to support thanks to the new enhanced patriotic feelings. It's an interesting phenomenon. I guess one has to become a diaspora in order to understand it.

    Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
    On the other hand, Zaev and Co have gotten away far too lightly...and the protesters missed a golden opportunity to dish out some patriotic justice to members of Gruevski's team as well.
    Please, you don't bite the hand that feeds.The very fact that not one single DPMNE MP was attacked shows who the attackers really are.
    ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
    ― George Orwell

    Comment

    • Pelagonija
      Member
      • Mar 2017
      • 533

      #32
      Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
      Funny, I don't remember any of these people storming the parliament back when DPMNE assigned the very same Talat Xhaferi for Defence Minister. Back then you could only see Stojanche Angelov and his group of 2001 veterans peacefully protesting for several days, no support from others, no screams of coup, no hype, no nothing. But then again, no politicians' asses needed to be saved from jail in order for Stojanche to get the needed support.


      Yes, diaspora people always are more patriotic than their kin back home. Anyone that left Macedonia for a better future seems to know what is best for the homeland and does the occasional "солење памет" every now and then, somehow forgetting why they left Macedonia in the first place. I even noticed that some of my friends that emigrated in a search for better life now support Grujo in this whole thing,the same guy they ran away from. I don't know if it's a case where the nostalgia for your homeland switches your mind to patriot mode and make you forget all the injustice and bullshit you had to take from all the politicians that you now start to support thanks to the new enhanced patriotic feelings. It's an interesting phenomenon. I guess one has to become a diaspora in order to understand it.


      Please, you don't bite the hand that feeds.The very fact that not one single DPMNE MP was attacked shows who the attackers really are.
      Dragan mate maybe we have a rite to be concerned, do you honestly believe we don't have legitimate concerns and mean well?

      Perhaps maybe we can wind the clock back to the Yugoslavian days? That was fun hey? When my great grand father escaped to the US for being too anti establishment? When my grandfathers brother got beaten to death by the police for fun? Or when my other grandfather got sent to the strem front to fight the retreating Germans just so TITO can feel masculine?

      These descendent of that past leaders are inherently wrong.

      I wish you good health and success.. though please don't revert to that us verse them devisive mentality. You talk of the democracy you dream off yet you don't give us the rite of say and criticise us?

      I go to Macedonia every two years, people hate us.. but I will always have Macedonia in my heart
      Last edited by Pelagonija; 04-28-2017, 02:56 AM.

      Comment

      • vicsinad
        Senior Member
        • May 2011
        • 2337

        #33
        SoM:

        My mistake: it was a neo-nazi Croatian party shirt:



        I think it shows, rather, that these are more than just "concerned citizens" but rather deeply connected individuals and potentially paid goons.

        Gocka:

        Sela was injured by the protestors. It's just not shown in the video, but it's shown in pictures.

        This was not a show of force of Macedonian citizens taking back power. A small group of DPMNE thugs broke off from that majority of those who stormed parliament, bloodied up politicians that weren't DPMNE, and gave the Albanians and SDSM an extraordinary amount of capital in the eyes of the majority of the Western world.

        All this could've been avoided if Zaev was given the mandate. His rule would've lasted only a few months and new elections would have resulted anyway. This all hinges on the fact that Gruevski and co. want amnesty from all the damage they caused in power and they wouldn't get it with Zaev in control. Gruevski could care less about the Tirana Platform. It's a scapegoat for him.

        But let's be realistic: if there are new elections, does Gruevski think he will get 61 votes and not need to form a coalition with Albanians? At most, things will go back to the way there were: DUI will get some of its lost votes back and DPMNE and DUI will be in power together again.

        Comment

        • Pelagonija
          Member
          • Mar 2017
          • 533

          #34
          Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
          SoM:

          My mistake: it was a neo-nazi Croatian party shirt:



          I think it shows, rather, that these are more than just "concerned citizens" but rather deeply connected individuals and potentially paid goons.

          Gocka:

          Sela was injured by the protestors. It's just not shown in the video, but it's shown in pictures.

          This was not a show of force of Macedonian citizens taking back power. A small group of DPMNE thugs broke off from that majority of those who stormed parliament, bloodied up politicians that weren't DPMNE, and gave the Albanians and SDSM an extraordinary amount of capital in the eyes of the majority of the Western world.

          All this could've been avoided if Zaev was given the mandate. His rule would've lasted only a few months and new elections would have resulted anyway. This all hinges on the fact that Gruevski and co. want amnesty from all the damage they caused in power and they wouldn't get it with Zaev in control. Gruevski could care less about the Tirana Platform. It's a scapegoat for him.

          But let's be realistic: if there are new elections, does Gruevski think he will get 61 votes and not need to form a coalition with Albanians? At most, things will go back to the way there were: DUI will get some of its lost votes back and DPMNE and DUI will be in power together again.
          Isn't that odd? replacing one corrupt official with another based on an anti corruption platform? And what makes you think Zaev will go away after a few months?

          Look up Djukanovic from crna gora on an example on how the west supports their own corrupt proxies..

          And why are you worried what the west thinks? They will support the Albs no matter what. Remember 2001? Aricanovo??

          What makes you think Zaev enjoys popular support? Do you honestly believe Zaev would have got the support of the Albanian without the platform?

          Also why doesn't Zaev release recordings on DUI?

          Fark gruo though Zaev is a kodlos peder
          Last edited by Pelagonija; 04-28-2017, 05:53 AM.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #35
            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
            SoM:

            My mistake: it was a neo-nazi Croatian party shirt:

            https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&...20hos&src=typd
            Strictly speaking, the emblem on the guy's shirt is not from a political party, it is from HOS, a military formation that came into existence during the early stages of the Yugoslav wars. It's members fought against Serbian aggression and most of them appear to have supported a union between Croatia and Bosnia. HOS (no longer in existence) was the military arm of a right-wing political party (still in existence), which is why the emblem has the HSP acronym.
            All this could've been avoided if Zaev was given the mandate. His rule would've lasted only a few months and new elections would have resulted anyway.
            What makes you think his rule would've lasted only a few months?
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • vicsinad
              Senior Member
              • May 2011
              • 2337

              #36
              If Zaev came to power, and openly accepted the Tirana Platform, you likely would have tens of thousands of Macedonians doing this to parliament instead of a few hundred DPMNE followers, which would likely result in new elections. Or on the other hand, if he openly rejected the Tirana Platform, the coalition between SDSM and all the Albanians wouldn't last, government would fall apart, and new elections would happen.

              Gruevski knows this, but he also knows that in the few months Zaev would be in power, he and his corrupt cronies would be put on trial. Thus, he's stalling for new elections to get a few more votes so he can again join DUI in ruling Macedonia.

              That's the political game that's being played.

              Comment

              • DraganOfStip
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2011
                • 1253

                #37
                Originally posted by Pelagonija View Post
                Dragan mate maybe we have a rite to be concerned, do you honestly believe we don't have legitimate concerns and mean well?

                Perhaps maybe we can wind the clock back to the Yugoslavian days? That was fun hey? When my great grand father escaped to the US for being too anti establishment? When my grandfathers brother got beaten to death by the police for fun? Or when my other grandfather got sent to the strem front to fight the retreating Germans just so TITO can feel masculine?

                These descendent of that past leaders are inherently wrong.

                I wish you good health and success.. though please don't revert to that us verse them devisive mentality. You talk of the democracy you dream off yet you don't give us the rite of say and criticise us?

                I go to Macedonia every two years, people hate us.. but I will always have Macedonia in my heart
                Of course, I believe none of us would be on this forum if they didn't have their homeland in their hearts, whether they live abroad or not.
                It's just strange how most people that emigrate just to get away form all the bullshit here (mainly caused by politicians) , end up giving support to the same once they settle in in their new countries.
                Like I said, I guess one has to become a diaspora in order to understand this paradox.

                Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                This was not a show of force of Macedonian citizens taking back power. A small group of DPMNE thugs broke off from that majority of those who stormed parliament, bloodied up politicians that weren't DPMNE, and gave the Albanians and SDSM an extraordinary amount of capital in the eyes of the majority of the Western world.

                All this could've been avoided if Zaev was given the mandate. His rule would've lasted only a few months and new elections would have resulted anyway. This all hinges on the fact that Gruevski and co. want amnesty from all the damage they caused in power and they wouldn't get it with Zaev in control. Gruevski could care less about the Tirana Platform. It's a scapegoat for him.

                But let's be realistic: if there are new elections, does Gruevski think he will get 61 votes and not need to form a coalition with Albanians? At most, things will go back to the way there were: DUI will get some of its lost votes back and DPMNE and DUI will be in power together again.
                That's about as accurate as it gets. Nice analysis Vic.
                ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                ― George Orwell

                Comment

                • Bill77
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 4545

                  #38
                  Just for those that feel the demonstrators over reacted.
                  What began as a Peaceful protest turned violent only after Zaev private security pulls weapon on people and claims made he fired wounding a demonstrator.

                  Before:


                  After:


                  After viewing this evidence..... I feel the reaction and harm caused by protestors to be just an understandable.
                  Last edited by Bill77; 04-28-2017, 06:52 AM.
                  http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                  Comment

                  • Pelagonija
                    Member
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 533

                    #39
                    mate they should have hanged them..

                    Remember what Zaev said "Ke jadime zivi ljugje" he looked scared and vulnerable behind his well payed security guard's..

                    This my friends is the face of the end of Macedonia...

                    Maybe Gruo will take your money, though Zaev will take your soul..

                    Albanians were once fighting for independence, now it will be our turn.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                      What began as a Peaceful protest turned violent only after Zaev private security pulls weapon on people and claims made he fired wounding a demonstrator.
                      Well, that would certainly change things and escalate tensions.



                      Macedonian retirees dish out Justice to MPs, Protesters Set up Tents

                      Thursday, 27 April 2017

                      This man, Sasho Spasovski, part of Oliver Spasovski's security squad is the initiator of the fight in Parliament. According to MINA's Pero Stanmatovski who was the first to report on the tensions in Parliament and the subsequent storming of Parliament, says Sasho Popovski discharged his weapon, but there is no information whether he shot a protester or if he fired it into the air.

                      Either way, with the exception of uniformed policemen, it's illegal for anyone to carry a weapon in Parliament. Stamatovski says out of the few hundred protersters who stormed Parliament, it was about two dozen retirees who entered the press conference hall where Zaev and Xhaferi were giving congratulary speeches. Many other protesters entered the main Assenmbly hall and other adjacent halls.

                      Zaev and Oliver Spasovski's private security (with a loaded gun) engaged the protesters which resulted in one 70 year old man picking up a camera tripod and smashing it into Zaev's head, after the man with the loaded gun was tackled down. Several elderly protesters were hurt during the scuffle. Once the younger protesters entered the press conference hall, MPs were running for their lives, with several jumping through window balconies, hurting themselves in the process.

                      SDS' Sekerinska was caught in the mellee as well, after an elderly protester grabbed her by the hair as she tried to flee. Sekerinska was evacuated from Parliament dressed as a medical nurse so she is not recognized. Folks, when you need to disguise yourself as a nurse so you can stay safe, you probably need to quit politics. Despite police best efforts to disperse the protesters, it appears they have only angered them more. Tents have been brought in, protesters are not leaving Parliament and will guard it throughout the night. It's time for the Macedonian Government to expel the US Ambassador and all of its staff. Or should the people take care of this too?
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • vicsinad
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2011
                        • 2337

                        #41
                        The masked men and others were intent on harming people before Zaev's security guard pulled out his gun. He was probably scared for his life with a mob rushing after them and the police failing to do their job.

                        Comment

                        • vicsinad
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2011
                          • 2337

                          #42
                          Macedonia's Interior Minister resigns and Zaev will not attend emergency talks with Ivanov and calls for the mandate to be given to him:




                          Macedonia's interior minister has offered his resignation a day after protesters stormed the country's parliament.

                          Protesters attacked legislators over disagreements in the election of a new parliamentary speaker. More than 100 people were injured in the violence.

                          The resignation of Agim Nuhin, interior minister in the caretaker government, has to be approved by the head of the ethnic Albanian Democratic Union for Integration party.

                          Macedonia has been without a government since elections in December were won by former Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, but without enough votes to hold a majority in parliament. Coalition talks with an ethnic Albanian party have failed over the latter's demand that Albanian be named an official second language in the country.

                          The ethnic Albanian minority makes up about a quarter of Macedonia's population.

                          A party official says Macedonia's opposition leader will not attend emergency talks aimed at defusing tension after opposition lawmakers were assaulted when demonstrators invaded parliament.

                          The official in the opposition Social Democrat party did not provide further details on why Zoran Zaev will not go to the talks called by the president and initially scheduled for later Friday.

                          The party official spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media.

                          Comment

                          • vicsinad
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2011
                            • 2337

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            Strictly speaking, the emblem on the guy's shirt is not from a political party, it is from HOS, a military formation that came into existence during the early stages of the Yugoslav wars. It's members fought against Serbian aggression and most of them appear to have supported a union between Croatia and Bosnia. HOS (no longer in existence) was the military arm of a right-wing political party (still in existence), which is why the emblem has the HSP acronym.
                            Yes, and now what is this gentlemen with the HOS shirt fighting against -- Albanian aggression? Or more like who or what is he fighting for -- Macedonia or DPMNE?

                            It's easy to offer justifications and explanations, but let's not ignore the obvious likelihood that he is a right-wing thug.

                            Comment

                            • vicsinad
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2011
                              • 2337

                              #44
                              Serbian Red-Star fans want to march to Skopje to fight against Albanian aggression...maybe they can unite with the Croatian Ustashe!

                              Comment

                              • vicsinad
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2011
                                • 2337

                                #45
                                Going forward, I think the responsible thing would be for Zaev and Ivanov to resign, and for Gruevski to not seek reelection, and let others come into play.

                                But that's not going to happen.

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