The Greek "province" of Macedonia, fact or fiction?

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  • Bratot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2855

    #16
    However you put it, the Socialist or Peoples Republic of Macedonia was the first formal party to use the official name - Macedonia, or Macedonian.
    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

    Comment

    • indigen
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 1558

      #17
      Originally posted by Bratot View Post
      However you put it, the Socialist or Peoples Republic of Macedonia was the first formal party to use the official name - Macedonia, or Macedonian.
      Peoples Republic pre-dates SRM but in 1880/1881 we had a "Provisional Government of Macedonia" that issued the following Manifesto:

      Real Macedonians, faithful offspring of your fatherland!

      Will you let your fatherland to be destroyed? Look at her, how she is suffocated in slavery, bleeding from the wounds that the surrounding nations have inflicted her with! Look at the heavy chains that the Sultan has put her in! In such a helpless state, all in tears, our dear Macedonia, our beloved fatherland is calling you: my faithful children, you descendents of Aristotle and Alexander the Great, you in whose veins flows Macedonian blood don’t leave me to die, help me! It would be a great shame for you, true Macedonians, if you remain silent witnesses of my burial. No, no, here are my awful bloody wounds, here are my heavy chains: beak them, heal my wounds, do whatever is in your power so the words “Allied and United Macedonia” can be written on the banner that I will raise. When you succeed victoriously, drive away the killer from this land, who fly the banner of discord and sow perilous ideas, dividing you, my children, into countless nations, and so united under the banner of Macedonia, as one nation, rise high that glorious banner and prepare to write single-mindedly on it:

      “Long live the Macedonian nation! Long live Macedonia!”

      Comment

      • indigen
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 1558

        #18
        Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
        Indigen, the regions of Greece are not its administrative form thus of no great importance. What counts is the Peripheries, they are the administrative units of the Hellenic Republic.

        To be noted:
        Agreed!

        There is a need to continually highlight these points so that it sinks into the political "tikvi glavi" in Mk.

        There was one article last year in "Washington Times" (or Post) that was alert to this issue and appeared not long after it was discussed here or on Maknews.

        Comment

        • Alpha
          Banned
          • Jan 2010
          • 75

          #19
          Definition, Synonyms, Translations of province by The Free Dictionary


          I fail to see your point. There are several definitions for this term.
          It would be extrememly hard to use this as an argument.

          prov·ince (prvns)
          n.
          1. A territory governed as an administrative or political unit of a country or empire.
          2. A division of territory under the jurisdiction of an archbishop.
          3. provinces Areas of a country situated away from the capital or population center.
          4. A comprehensive area of knowledge, activity, or interest: a topic falling within the province of ancient history. See Synonyms at field.
          5. The range of one's proper duties and functions; scope or jurisdiction.
          6. Ecology An area of land, less extensive than a region, having a characteristic plant and animal population.
          7. Any of various lands outside Italy conquered by the Romans and administered by them as self-contained units.

          Noun 1. province - the territory occupied by one of the constituent administrative districts of a nation; "his state is in the deep south"

          state

          administrative district, administrative division, territorial division - a district defined for administrative purposes

          commonwealth - the official name of some states in the United States (Massachusetts and Pennsylvania and Virginia and Kentucky) and associated territories (Puerto Rico)

          country, land, state - the territory occupied by a nation; "he returned to the land of his birth"; "he visited several European countries"

          eparchy - a province in ancient Greece

          American state - one of the 50 states of the United States

          Italian region - Italy is divided into 20 regions for administrative purposes

          Canadian province - Canada is divided into 12 provinces for administrative purposes

          Australian state - one of the several states constituting Australia

          Soviet Socialist Republic - one of the states that formerly made up the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (1922-1991)

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #20
            "You people"?

            What's your purpose here Alpha?

            You are on a forum with Macedonians, of course we can, and will, monopolise the Macedonian name because it the name of our state, nation, ethnicity, culture, language, etc. It is our historic name and it is relevant for all of our people, not just some of our people in a certain part of our country.

            For "you people", it is a geographic identity. For most of "you people", it has been a geographic identity for less than a century.

            Don't make the mistake of negating our identity, don't deny us Macedonians the right to claim what is rightfully ours. And don't for a second think that you provide any worth to this forum with your attitude and tired arguments that were refuted by school children years ago.

            If you can't stop yourself from being a racist, then you don't belong here. You have a think about everything I have written, before you write something again. We don't need "you people" (Greeks of the racist type) here.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #21
              By the way Alpha, or perhaps I should call you Annie from Chicago, consider our leniency towards you by allowing a previously banned racist to sign up on our forum again, take it as a gesture of goodwill, where us Macedonians allow a Greek of your sort to have a second crack at being normal and non-racist.

              Spartan, Fatso, Wanderer, Alki - these are all Greeks that have been members of our forum and never been banned - you know why? Because they don't deny the existence of the Macedonian people and identity, because they are not racists. I am sure they don't agree with everything we say, but they can put their message across in a gentleman-like manner, they accept the normality and reality of the Macedonians, and they wish to have some dialogue. I say, good for them, Spartan for example, can be considered a 'local' of this forum, take a page from his book on the way to discuss and debate, you might learn something, if not from Macedonians, then from a fellow Greek that isn't infected with this eternal racism that people like yourself have such difficulty shaking off.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                #22
                Speaking of Spartans, here is a good candidate for an avatar:



                But watch out.............



                Well, they probably would have held their ground, their Athenian friends however, well...........
                The Athenians, hearing the result of the conflict, and fearing that Philip would march into Greece, took possession of the straits of Thermopylae….......(2nd Century AD, Justinus, Epitome of Phillip, 8,2)
                Spartan, one day, you and I will have an ouzo or two in Greece, one day......see you at Thermopylae
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Spartan
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1037

                  #23
                  Nice pics SoM!
                  Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                  Well, they probably would have held their ground, their Athenian friends however, well...........
                  The Athenians will be Athenians.
                  I give them some credit, as they showed some balls and honor sticking up to the persians, but it was all downhill for them from there.
                  And at least they met you guys on the battlefield, lol, although that didnt work out too well for them lol.
                  The athenians liked to sit behind their big walls and think, they were pretty good thinkers, but would definitely be out of their element on a battlefield with Macedonians and Spartans lol
                  Spartan, one day, you and I will have an ouzo or two in Greece, one day......see you at Thermopylae
                  I would love to give you a tour of the pelloponnese SoM, as I genuinely believe you would enjoy it. We could then make the trip north (skipping Athens of course), and you could show me around your neighborhood. One day....

                  As for Ouzo, not a big fan. How about a Cognac/brandy and a cigar?

                  As for Thermopolyea, not much to see there other than a plaque commemorating the Spartans, and a statue of the man himself. You will have seen everything in about 10 minutes, lol. We can then resume our trip north into what would be 'unchartered territory' for me.

                  Comment

                  • Spartan
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1037

                    #24
                    Actually heres Thermopolyea in a nutshell SoM -





                    Now that thats out of the way, north we go!!

                    Comment

                    • Alpha
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 75

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      By the way Alpha, or perhaps I should call you Annie from Chicago, consider our leniency towards you by allowing a previously banned racist to sign up on our forum again, take it as a gesture of goodwill, where us Macedonians allow a Greek of your sort to have a second crack at being normal and non-racist.

                      Spartan, Fatso, Wanderer, Alki - these are all Greeks that have been members of our forum and never been banned - you know why? Because they don't deny the existence of the Macedonian people and identity, because they are not racists. I am sure they don't agree with everything we say, but they can put their message across in a gentleman-like manner, they accept the normality and reality of the Macedonians, and they wish to have some dialogue. I say, good for them, Spartan for example, can be considered a 'local' of this forum, take a page from his book on the way to discuss and debate, you might learn something, if not from Macedonians, then from a fellow Greek that isn't infected with this eternal racism that people like yourself have such difficulty shaking off.
                      First off...Yes im a "chicagoan"...but im not a woman though.

                      Secondly, Thanks for the uplifting of the ban, but In all fairness...i think it was an overreaction last time.

                      Third, I believe you use the " racist " card to often. I dont agree with A LOT of what you say, but that doesnt mean Im a racist.

                      That being said, il try to tone it down and not sound to condescending.

                      Comment

                      • Alpha
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2010
                        • 75

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                        "You people"?

                        What's your purpose here Alpha?

                        You are on a forum with Macedonians, of course we can, and will, monopolise the Macedonian name because it the name of our state, nation, ethnicity, culture, language, etc. It is our historic name and it is relevant for all of our people, not just some of our people in a certain part of our country.

                        For "you people", it is a geographic identity. For most of "you people", it has been a geographic identity for less than a century.
                        My purpose is to debate on issues i find important. Its really not interesting to be in a forum where everyone agrees with you.

                        Im having a hard time understanding your logic SOM. I find it highly flawed. Its unfortunate that you carry this hardline attitude. Its this attitude that is holding relations back.

                        Lets hope 2010 will change things for the better.
                        Last edited by Alpha; 01-10-2010, 03:49 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #27
                          "You people" is a way Greeks avoid saying Macedonians.
                          Grow up Alpha.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Sovius
                            Member
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 241

                            #28
                            Alpha, can you please quit diluting the content of this thread with your distractions? People are trying to learn a few things here and I don't think they really care about your inability to see yourself through others' eyes.

                            ********

                            Now, let's focus!

                            ********

                            Can anyone recommend any additional articles (background information) or documents for further research regarding the renaming of Northern Greece? This is a very murky and, often times, confusing subject in the West, due to the limited amount of information that is typically presented by mainstream Media concerning the matter, as is the existence of Macedonia as a republic within a federation of republics. These two observations represent Macedonia’s sword and shield in the legal arena concerning the “Name Issue”, but I’ve never been able to find a more detailed or extensive analysis on either subject, just bits and pieces here and there.

                            Comment

                            • Daskalot
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 4345

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Sovius View Post
                              Alpha, can you please quit diluting the content of this thread with your distractions? People are trying to learn a few things here and I don't think they really care about your inability to see yourself through others' eyes.

                              ********

                              Now, let's focus!

                              ********

                              Can anyone recommend any additional articles (background information) or documents for further research regarding the renaming of Northern Greece? This is a very murky and, often times, confusing subject in the West, due to the limited amount of information that is typically presented by mainstream Media concerning the matter, as is the existence of Macedonia as a republic within a federation of republics. These two observations represent Macedonia’s sword and shield in the legal arena concerning the “Name Issue”, but I’ve never been able to find a more detailed or extensive analysis on either subject, just bits and pieces here and there.
                              As Sovius said, people are here to learn and we provide detailed information to the readers of this forum. In essence, we provide knowledge and enlightenment about Macedonia.

                              @Sovius
                              I will look into your request and see what I can dig up from the darkest parts of my library.
                              Macedonian Truth Organisation

                              Comment

                              • Alpha
                                Banned
                                • Jan 2010
                                • 75

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                                "You people" is a way Greeks avoid saying Macedonians.
                                Grow up Alpha.
                                No, your mistaken Risto...i have no problem referring to you as macedonians. I did in the past if you remember.
                                I was referring to nationalistic prone members, nothing more.

                                Comment

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