The socio-cultural roots of the greek economic crisis

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  • Daskalot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 4345

    #16
    Originally posted by Louis View Post
    I'm not interested in sites of Greek propaganda, I'm interested in the exact opposite.
    Could you please tell us what exactly is the exact opposite to Greek propaganda?
    Macedonian Truth Organisation

    Comment

    • Coolski
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 747

      #17
      The article is highly emotive, but it really paints the reality of modern Greece. Quite a few of the points appear as parallels in Macedonia and other parts of the Balkans today. I'm talking about the way we missed out on the Renaissance, and that until recently, our cultural and economic development had been quite limited.

      It seems to me that Greece was only artificially modernised on the surface since independence. The underlying simplistic mindsets of their people kept their economy and professional culture limited. This damage continued to occur because there was a huge sum of EU funds to irresponsibly borrow from while they continued their charade of being modern europeans with a glorious ancient past.

      Macedonia did not have the same benefit/curse of crazy EU handouts. I'm getting the feeling that the natural order of civilization is occuring in Macedonia and it's only because the Macedonians have not had the same catalysts to perpetuate the negative aspects of our Balkan traits. With time, it seems that these negative traits are being stamped out much quicker than in Greece, where the traits have been nurtured and even enhanced in the past 200 years. Their reality check will hit them like a ton of bricks.
      - Секој чоек и нација има можност да успеат колку шо си дозволуваат. Нема изговор.
      - Every human and nation has the ability to be as great or as weak as they allow themselves to be. No excuses.

      Comment

      • fatso
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 301

        #18
        Originally posted by George S. View Post
        So you did enter turkey or were you prevented.? how was it?How was ephesus.?Did it meet your expectations??Turkey is pretty popular with tourists.Did you end up in Izmir?If so how was it as a tourist destination?
        Ephesus was incredible. Interesting enough our tour guide said welcome to Greece.

        Your friend Onur tried to warn Turkish authorities about me..funny thing is I have friends in Turkey.
        Hey Onur, try entering Bulgaria again.

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          #19
          Thanks for the article Onur.
          There are other, interesting articles on that site (in Greek) as well.

          Οι Αρβανίτες απόκτησαν ελληνική συνείδηση - YouTube
          What exactly is Greek national conscience is clear from the above excerpt from the feature productions Sky, "1821" (although this was not the intention of the director) and his debate with presenter Associate Professor, University of Athens, Mr. M. Efthymiou.

          In this excerpt, which have dramatizations of the besieged preparations for the impending exit of Messolonghi, a mother sings to her child a lullaby in a non-Greek language (obviously Arvanitika or Vlach).

          Efthymiou "highlights" and "clarifies" the fact that in Messollongi Arvanites fought with "Greek national consciousness" and felt "more Greek than the Greeks"; and acquired "the feeling that I am the descendant of the ancient Greeks."

          Therefore: Greek national consciousness is the Illusion of multiethnic Romioi descending from the ancient Greeks.
          Last edited by Carlin; 08-25-2012, 10:19 PM.

          Comment

          • damian
            Banned
            • Jun 2012
            • 191

            #20
            [QUOTE=Carlin;133043]Thanks for the article Onur.
            There are other, interesting articles on that site (in Greek) as well.

            Οι Αρβανίτες απόκτησαν ελληνική συνείδηση - YouTube
            What exactly is Greek national conscience is clear from the above excerpt from the feature productions Sky, "1821" (although this was not the intention of the director) and his debate with presenter Associate Professor, University of Athens, Mr. M. Efthymiou.

            In this excerpt, which have dramatizations of the besieged preparations for the impending exit of Messolonghi, a mother sings to her child a lullaby in a non-Greek language (obviously Arvanitika or Vlach).

            Efthymiou "highlights" and "clarifies" the fact that in Messollongi Arvanites fought with "Greek national consciousness" and felt "more Greek than the Greeks"; and acquired "the feeling that I am the descendant of the ancient Greeks."

            Therefore: Greek national consciousness is the Illusion of multiethnic Romioi descending from the ancient Greeks.[/Q

            What the hell is modern Turkey?

            Comment

            • George S.
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 10116

              #21
              one of my friends at work said that probably about a 1/3of turkey is greek people.
              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
              GOTSE DELCEV

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                #22
                That same 'friend' probably believes Macedonians are 'Greek'. If you don't believe such garbage yourself, don't post such comments for nothing. It does nothing but waste forum space. Try adding some more depth to your posts rather than just making quick and irrelevant remarks George, you have over 6,000 posts on this forum now and a large share of them are these sort of comments.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  #23
                  Originally posted by George S. View Post
                  one of my friends at work said that probably about a 1/3of turkey is greek people.
                  I am really sorry but this is "probably" incorrect.

                  If anyone would like to consult a source, look no further than Ostrogorsky who states that by 10th/11th century AD Slavs comprised a great proportion of inhabitants of Asia Minor. It was a multi-ethnic region peopled by: Slavs, Arabs, Armenians, Georgians, Persians, and others.

                  Let's not forget the episode of the Revolt by Thomas the Slav in the 9th century. He was a 9th century Byzantine military commander of Slavic origin - a native of Asia Minor. (Wikipedia: Genesios and other chroniclers state that Thomas also won the support of "Hagarenes, Indians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Medians, Abasgians, Zichs, Iberians, Kabirs, Slavs, Huns, Vandals, Getae, the sectarians of Manes, Laz, Alanians, Chaldians, Armenians and every kind of other peoples".)

                  Comment

                  • Louis
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2012
                    • 109

                    #24
                    Originally posted by damian View Post
                    Efthymiou "highlights" and "clarifies" the fact that in Messollongi Arvanites fought with "Greek national consciousness" and felt "more Greek than the Greeks"; and acquired "the feeling that I am the descendant of the ancient Greeks."
                    Nope, she actually tells an interesting story (which you omitted) but that hardly means “Arvanites felt more Greek than the Greeks”. I’m not sure if the story is accurate and still I’ve no idea what it would mean. Giving an ancient Greek or mythological name to your boat (instead of an Albanian one) could be just a sign of (Greek) education or simply a local fashion.

                    Originally posted by damian View Post
                    Therefore: Greek national consciousness is the Illusion of multiethnic Romioi descending from the ancient Greeks.
                    I’ve no idea who makes this conclusion (I guess it’s you) but it’s totally wrong. Arvanites (for instance) were (to some degree) Hellenized but unity came mostly through the Church. For instance, there was no such unity with the Greek Catholics who remained reserved until almost the end of Revolution.

                    Originally posted by George S. View Post
                    one of my friends at work said that probably about a 1/3of turkey is greek people.
                    The percentage of Greeks in Turkey is practically zero (<0,01%, one shouldn’t even bother to estimate it). The current Patriarch will be probably the last Patriarch born in Turkey.
                    Last edited by Louis; 08-26-2012, 11:29 AM.

                    Comment

                    • momce
                      Banned
                      • Oct 2012
                      • 426

                      #25
                      There are no Greeks in Asia Minor never have been. They are Anatolians who took part in the liturgy of the Greek Orthodox Church they couldnt even speak greek when population exchanges occured. We have to back before the modern state and its homogenizing tendencies to understand real phenomenon.
                      Last edited by momce; 02-14-2013, 01:29 AM.

                      Comment

                      • EricTheRed
                        Junior Member
                        • Oct 2012
                        • 41

                        #26
                        Originally posted by momce View Post
                        There are no Greeks in Asia Minor never have been. They are Anatolians who took part in the liturgy of the Greek Orthodox Church they couldnt even speak greek when population exchanges occured. We have to back before the modern state and its homogenizing tendencies to understand real phenomenon.
                        Hold on a second, are you claiming that not a single hellenic tribe ever settled in Asia Minor? Who built Ephesus, Alicaranassus, Militos.....
                        Mind you, not even the Turks do question this fact-the Turkish word Yunan means Ionian(Ionia=coasts of Asia Minor). Moreover, I dont think that the Turks consider themselves indigenous in Asia Minor. You cannot just delete greek presence from everywhere.

                        Comment

                        • momce
                          Banned
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 426

                          #27
                          Ionian settlements are not necessarily "greek". Greek specifically develops below Thessaly, in Attica and the Peloponnese, and then only as a rough nomenclature not as a contiguous political state(in loose federations etc which are being built and dissolved all the time, see internal Greek wars, "HellenicWar" against Macedonia post-Alexander etc). Its only with the development of the "koine" and Orthodox Christianity that these regions are erroneously considered part of Greece. Look read Pausanias he clearly delineates what is considered "Greece". And Anatolians are so far removed from Ionia that they cannot be considered "Greek".
                          Last edited by momce; 02-16-2013, 12:07 PM.

                          Comment

                          • tchaiku
                            Member
                            • Nov 2016
                            • 786

                            #28
                            [QUOTE=Louis;133104
                            I’ve no idea who makes this conclusion (I guess it’s you) but it’s totally wrong. Arvanites (for instance) were (to some degree) Hellenized but unity came mostly through the Church. For instance, there was no such unity with the Greek Catholics who remained reserved until almost the end of Revolution.
                            [/QUOTE]
                            .......
                            I agree

                            Comment

                            • tchaiku
                              Member
                              • Nov 2016
                              • 786

                              #29
                              Originally posted by fatso View Post
                              Onur should be more concerned about the Kurds. He ejaculates every time he posts something negative about Greece.
                              This rodent was to scared to sit and have a beer with me, yet he warned the Turkish authorities about me entering Turkey.

                              Nice try you puke, I ended up going to Ephesus.
                              Lol yeah right.

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