Greater Albania

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 1595

    #16
    Originally posted by Albo View Post
    A greater or ethnic whatever country in the region.. be it Albania, Serbia, Macedonia, Croatia, Bulgaria ect.. will only occur if that's what the powers that be want it.to occur...

    Even if it's not wanted by the people on the ground.. they will find or create the appropriate affiliates.. so such a scenario happens..

    The borders of the Balkan states have never been decided by the balkan people and most likely won't for a very long time...

    Another thing.. I don't believe that any ethnic group in the Balkans desires a "Greater" whateve more than the next..

    should the opportunity be given to any people's in the region for territorial expansion or unification they would all jump on it if it was done in accordance to their extreme appetites..

    Tell me one Macedonian who wouldn't want northern Greece to be incorporated into Macedonia.. or a serb who wouldn't want Kosovo and Republika Srpska incorporated into Serbia..

    So I don't bother with wanting or wishing a greater Albania.. because it's simply not in the hands of any Albanian or any other Balkanite who will decide when or if it happens or not!

    I strongly believe EU integration and strong local economies will lesser the calls for "Greater" states

    Difference between us and the rest is that we've never received any aid. We've always been on the receiving end of partition
    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

    Comment

    • Albo
      Member
      • May 2014
      • 304

      #17
      Difference between us and the rest is that we've never received any aid. We've always been on the receiving end of partition
      Well depends what you mean by aid? and when?

      All people of thre Balkans claim some sort of partition or lament that "everyone in the region is against us"

      The facts are that Albania wasn't partitioned nor was Macedonia.. because they were never unified states to begin with .. we can all parade maps on how we wish things should be.. and argue which is ours and which is yours .. but we will get nowhere..

      The only solution is the EU.. where borders become irrelevant and living standards improve!

      Comment

      • Pelagonija
        Member
        • Mar 2017
        • 533

        #18
        Originally posted by Albo View Post
        Well depends what you mean by aid? and when?

        All people of thre Balkans claim some sort of partition or lament that "everyone in the region is against us"

        The facts are that Albania wasn't partitioned nor was Macedonia.. because they were never unified states to begin with .. we can all parade maps on how we wish things should be.. and argue which is ours and which is yours .. but we will get nowhere..

        The only solution is the EU.. where borders become irrelevant and living standards improve!
        Not sure how borders are relevant now? I drove into GypsieAlbania last year, it took 2 minutes in total..it didn't even feel like a border! Maybe it will make it easier during census time to make it easier for Albanians to pop over in MKD??

        As for the the EU and prosper, perhaps ask the pigs or Croatia? Romania, BG? Home grown growth requires home grown solutions??

        Comment

        • Liberator of Makedonija
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 1595

          #19
          Originally posted by Albo View Post
          Well depends what you mean by aid? and when?

          All people of thre Balkans claim some sort of partition or lament that "everyone in the region is against us"

          The facts are that Albania wasn't partitioned nor was Macedonia.. because they were never unified states to begin with .. we can all parade maps on how we wish things should be.. and argue which is ours and which is yours .. but we will get nowhere..

          The only solution is the EU.. where borders become irrelevant and living standards improve!
          Unified Macedonian states have existed though? The ancient Kingdom of Macedon, the Macedonian Empire and Tsar Samoil's Macedonian Kingdom. All of which corresponding in the area of modern Macedonia.
          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

          Comment

          • Albo
            Member
            • May 2014
            • 304

            #20
            Unified Macedonian states have existed though? The ancient Kingdom of Macedon, the Macedonian Empire and Tsar Samoil's Macedonian Kingdom. All of which corresponding in the area of modern Macedonia.
            You and many others in the Balkans make the delusional mistake that tries to link ancient and medieval concepts of a "state" to modern realities of recent state formation and ethnic identity !!

            The two concepts are world's apart and have minimal bearing on today's reality..

            Comment

            • Gocka
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2012
              • 2306

              #21
              Aren't your kin's ideas about a "greater" Albania based off of Illyrian delusions then?

              Originally posted by Albo View Post
              You and many others in the Balkans make the delusional mistake that tries to link ancient and medieval concepts of a "state" to modern realities of recent state formation and ethnic identity !!

              The two concepts are world's apart and have minimal bearing on today's reality..

              Comment

              • Albo
                Member
                • May 2014
                • 304

                #22
                No because Illyria existed centuries ago and incorporated a much larger territory than the regions where Albanains live or have lived in in modern times.

                Comment

                • Liberator of Makedonija
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 1595

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Albo View Post
                  No because Illyria existed centuries ago and incorporated a much larger territory than the regions where Albanains live or have lived in in modern times.

                  What hypocrisy is this?! So when we try to claim an ancient region it's "you make the delusional claim to an ancient state...blah blah blah" but when you do it, it's "No because Illyria existed....blah blah blah"

                  Double standards much.
                  I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                  Comment

                  • Albo
                    Member
                    • May 2014
                    • 304

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                    What hypocrisy is this?! So when we try to claim an ancient region it's "you make the delusional claim to an ancient state...blah blah blah" but when you do it, it's "No because Illyria existed....blah blah blah"

                    Double standards much.
                    The question I was asked was:
                    Aren't your kin's ideas about a "greater" Albania based off of Illyrian delusions then?
                    What I meant was if the idea of a Greater Albania was based on ancient Illyria.. then the territory that would be claimed would look something like the above map!

                    And not:

                    Comment

                    • Gocka
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2012
                      • 2306

                      #25
                      So then Albanians have nothing to do with Illyrians your saying?

                      Originally posted by Albo View Post
                      The question I was asked was:


                      What I meant was if the idea of a Greater Albania was based on ancient Illyria.. then the territory that would be claimed would look something like the above map!

                      And not:

                      Comment

                      • Albo
                        Member
                        • May 2014
                        • 304

                        #26
                        Not saying they have nothing to do with them..

                        What I'm saying is that the territory once inhabited by the Illyrians isn't the reasoning or the bases for those proclaiming a "Greater" or "Ethnic" or "United" or "Natural" or (whatever you want to call it) Albania..

                        I idea of this Albania is a modern concept from 1877 that was formed by the Albanian elites of the time prior to the breakup of the ottoman empire!

                        See - League of Prizren

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13669

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Albo
                          Tell me one Macedonian who wouldn't want northern Greece to be incorporated into Macedonia....
                          The prime minister of Albania, "president" of Kosovo and chairman of the Albanian National Council in Serbia have all made statements suggestive of a "Greater Albania". Has a Macedonian prime minister or president ever made a threat to incorporate Aegean Macedonia into the Macedonian republic? Don't compare apples with oranges. By the way, make another post which includes a map that refers to Macedonia in such a derogatory manner and it will be your last on this forum.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Gocka
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 2306

                            #28
                            Okay, so to what extent DO Albanians have to do with Illyrians.

                            To what extent DO Macedonians NOT have anything to do with ancient Macedonians, , Roman Macedonians, Medieval Macedonians, Ottoman Macedonians?

                            At least in each and every instance they were still Macedonians, on the other hand as you said, Albanians had not been mentioned until much later in history.

                            So what exactly is your problem here?

                            Originally posted by Albo View Post
                            Not saying they have nothing to do with them..

                            What I'm saying is that the territory once inhabited by the Illyrians isn't the reasoning or the bases for those proclaiming a "Greater" or "Ethnic" or "United" or "Natural" or (whatever you want to call it) Albania..

                            I idea of this Albania is a modern concept from 1877 that was formed by the Albanian elites of the time prior to the breakup of the ottoman empire!

                            See - League of Prizren

                            Comment

                            • Albo
                              Member
                              • May 2014
                              • 304

                              #29
                              The prime minister or Albania, "president" of Kosovo and chairman of the Albanian National Council in Serbia have all made statements suggestive of a "Greater Albania". Has a Macedonian prime minister or president ever made a threat to incorporate Aegean Macedonia into the Macedonian republic?

                              Don't compare apples with oranges.
                              They said it in the context of the EU no longer being an option for the region... also the comments have a lot to do with it being an election year in the region..

                              A Macedonian prime minister won't say such a comment to Greece for a few reasons ... firstly Greece is a member of the EU..

                              Secondly there is no call or support from agean Macedonians to ask for such a thing.. They have almost zero political representatives elected to any place of power..

                              As far as I know the rainbow party receives around 5.000 votes .. people who openly support Macedonian identity and have a political agenda are sadly minimal in northern Greece.. I understand that the conditions in which rainbow party officials operate in must be difficult but there aren't enough people making noise in agean Macedonia or willing to sacrifice possible jail term or even worse in order to internationalize their plight. Unfortunately rights and recognition don't come easy in the Balkans..

                              The representative from the Preshevo Valley who makes such grand statements does so because he has support
                              From voters.. he would receive over 5000 votes from 1-2 large villages, without including the cities of Preshevo and Bujanovac...compared to the rainbow party who receives that much covering a much larger territory of towns and villages.. he has also been visites regularly by leaders of Albania and Kosovo.. where students from the region are offeres scholarships to study in Tirana and Prishtina universities.

                              There are much stronger cross border links and ties between Albanians in the region compared to probably any other ethnic group in then region.

                              So yes you could say the situation is like comparing apples and oranges.

                              By the way, make another post which includes a map that refers to Macedonia in such a derogatory manner and it will be your last on this forum.
                              I wasn't being derogatory nor have I ever been when it comes to Macedonia or its people or its culture..( like so many others on here are to me) ..I was simply using the maps to illustrate my comment..

                              Okay, so to what extent DO Albanians have to do with Illyrians.

                              To what extent DO Macedonians NOT have anything to do with ancient Macedonians, , Roman Macedonians, Medieval Macedonians, Ottoman Macedonians?

                              At least in each and every instance they were still Macedonians, on the other hand as you said, Albanians had not been mentioned until much later in history.
                              Look I'm not getting into a never ending debate on ancient history that leads nowhere..
                              The Albanian/ Illyrian link was first and continually proclaimed by non Albanian historians and academics of the region..

                              Whather there is or isn't a link is irrelevant to todays reality on the ground .. the same goes for modern greeks claiming direct ancient lineage simply because they live in the region of ancient Greece.. the same goes for modern Macedonians who are largly the the only ones who make a direct link the ancient Macedonian world.

                              Regardless of who is who and what heritage is claimed... is absolutely irrelevant in my eyes.. because it's 2017. .. and no known academic would support direct pure descendants from the ancient world in the balkans to todays modern day ethnic groups of the region

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13669

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Albo
                                They said it in the context of the EU no longer being an option for the region...
                                They said it. That's the point. As for the "context", they know full well that Macedonia, Serbia (+ Kosovo) and Albania aren't getting into the EU anytime soon. Their threatening statements merely gave voice to a desire they all share. So save your excuses for somebody who doesn't know better.
                                A Macedonian prime minister won't say such a comment to Greece for a few reasons ... firstly Greece is a member of the EU..
                                A Macedonian PM won't say that because it would suggest border changes, which could only come about through war. That doesn't seem to be an issue for ethnic Albanian politicians.
                                Secondly there is no call or support from agean Macedonians to ask for such a thing.. They have almost zero political representatives elected to any place of power..
                                We're well aware of Greece's disgraceful treatment of the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia.
                                The representative from the Preshevo Valley who makes such grand statements does so because he has support From voters...
                                So the idea of a "Greater Albania" is not just a political statement, it has the support of ethnic Albanians.
                                I was simply using the maps to illustrate my comment..
                                Use another or none at all. You won't be told again.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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