Jovan Vraniskovski - The Traitor

[Soldier of Macedon]

Well, when I wrote it I thought there were two rival Churches (or at least one and a half). It seems this new Church has no followers and exists only in papers? .........

You obviously don't think well before you write, keep at it. I won't bother addressing the rest of your irrelevant dribble in that paragraph.

I don’t believe it’s the 10th time.

I'm sure you'll get there eventually champ.

On a side note: The last time you banned me, you decided to ban my IP address. Since I didn’t have a static address (nobody has in Greece), you banned about (if I’m not wrong) 60,000 Greek IP addresses. You may not be aware of it, but when an IP address is banned in this forum the internet user cannot… read the forum (not just log in and post). If that’s OK with you, leave it as it is. If that was not your intention you should lift the ban, because you harm other readers or possible members, not me.

Thanks for the feedback. I have no problem banning you individually each time, the only thing it will do is ruin it for other Greeks that wish to partake in sane discussions with Macedonians, because some of them (even normal one's perhaps) will no doubt become 'collateral damage'. In fact, you should be ashamed that you portray the image of a repetitive fool, it doesn't score any points for your people here. Don't you have a life? Or are you genuinely interesting in interacting with us, despite the great difficulties you're experiencing?

Censorship and barriers just don’t work effectively in our days, not even in China.

Greece does just fine. It censors all of its minorities. Perhaps China can take a leaf out of Greece's book.

Why isn’t Vodenka posting anymore? Maybe she was affected by the ban, maybe it’s because she lately became famous in Greece. Who knows?

Elaborate on what you mean by her becoming 'famous'? Why are you so concerned with Vodenka, because people like her aren't supposed to exist in that xenophobic world you live in?

Actually, the Church was already in life.

Actually, there was no church ever labelled "Hellenic" prior to Bavarian instigation in the first half of the 19th century, either as a part or independent of the Patriarchate of Constantinople. George Maurer, who promoted the severance of the new ‘Hellenic’ Church from the Patriarchate of Constantinople, even established a ‘Holy Synod’ of government appointees to administer the new ‘Hellenic’ Church, and was responsible for the closure of hundreds of Orthodox monasteries. Don't be afraid, research him.

What’s with the German Protestants? The only thing I know is that (during the Bavarian period) some tried to change (westernize) the chants but failed since the flock booed their novelties. (Another rivalry between two sides of idiots).

Here's something to cure your ignorance, conveniently named, Greece: Made in Germany:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1919&highlight=hellenic+church+bavarian

Oops… That’s a fast change. I thought my people would be a major component in an independent Macedonian State (in 1913). The last time I remember you defining this Macedonian People, your criteria were purely geographical, and Muslims were included too.

Are you on drugs? Or is this some other poser? I know that some of you allow others to post from your usernames, or perhaps this is your multiple-moron personality in action? Refer me to the post where my criteria for Macedonian identity relies "purely" on geographical grounds, or tone down your lies immediately before I send you packing again.

By the way, given the content of this thread, what Church would that state have and what language? And who would be the Bishop of Kastoria?

The Archbishopric of Ohrid in Macedonia, the Macedonian language, and a Macedonian bishop.

[inmate1807]

he is like a toy soilder for the Greek and Serbian side...

[Risto the Great]

"Hellenic Church" is an oxymoron.

[Akzion]

Risto the Great
I’m a Greek Macedonian. A Macedonian without descriptor may sound ridiculous to you, not me.

Macedonians have fought for their own independence over many centuries.

They did? Can you mention three or four of these centuries?

Macedonians fought for the liberation of Macedonia in what is now called the Greek civil war. Do you seriously think they fought for communism more so than liberation? I have no idea what Greeks fought for but I can vouch for the Macedonians. They fought for the team that was promising them liberation. They were duped.

They were duped? You know, unlike the imaginative obscure past (before 19th century), these people had newspapers, proclamations, conferences etc. Here’s an example by NOF (includes historic background and self-definitions). It’s in an awful format but it is read far easier than you think.

http://media.ems.gr/to_makedoniko/makd_nof_text.pdf

do we have always to remind them that their King was german bastard?

after the war to free the country from the germans, they wanted the mentioned german bastard to be re-installed as a king!

Serdarot,
No, that was not the problem. Not even the communists ever saw it this way.

Judging by your responses you imply that it's ok for Vranikovski to break the law, be issued extradition proceedings for a warrant served by interpol and be set free by the Sofia court without having to return to Republic of Macedonia to face charges/defend himself. If this is even remotely correct about your understanding the nyou truly are one sorry individual who does not deserve the respect and tolerance he has been shown on this forum!

Makedonche,
I don’t know as much as you, about his past, but I’m expecting, in vain, for more info. Truth is, nobody believes you abroad. It seems there’s an internationally established impression that this man is a “conscience prisoner”, targeted and hunted and… Julian Assanged. It seems that any country would deny extradition. As for your people, they would have to revolt against… a foreign country, if they are indeed manic against him. Is this international impression unfair, baseless? See again the questions of post#16 or this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Jovan_VI_of_Ohrid#International_Reactions

[Onur]

I’m a Greek Macedonian. A Macedonian without descriptor may sound ridiculous to you, not me.

With grandparents from Anatolia? As far as i remember, you told that your grandparents came from Anatolia. So, how come you became Macedonian? just because you have born in Aegean Macedonia?

[Akzion]

Thanks for the feedback. I have no problem banning you individually each time, the only thing it will do is ruin it for other Greeks that wish to partake in sane discussions with Macedonians, because some of them (even normal one's perhaps) will no doubt become 'collateral damage'.

That implied you would lift the ban. Have you?

In fact, you should be ashamed that you portray the image of a repetitive fool, it doesn't score any points for your people here. Don't you have a life? Or are you genuinely interesting in interacting with us, despite the great difficulties you're experiencing?

That's interesting, but how do you mean it? All other Greek users since the beginning of this forum (about 30 or 50) have also been banned. I can't easily post and I have to use tricks to read the forum, but I wouldn't call it great difficulties. Rather small difficulties or balls busting.
Do you think that by calling me a fool, I’ll be offended and go? I’m not easily offended.

Greece does just fine. It censors all of its minorities. Perhaps China can take a leaf out of Greece's book.

Greece didn't ban your forum. You banned Greece, or at least a good part of internet users (probably all or half the users under conn-x OTE provider in Greece)

Elaborate on what you mean by her becoming 'famous'? Why are you so concerned with Vodenka, because people like her aren't supposed to exist in that xenophobic world you live in?

When the ban started she was the only other user from Greece, and I just noticed she doesn't post anymore. Maybe you should send her an e-mail and ask her if she can access the forum. Vodenka's name and activities were a front page in Stohos newspaper a couple of months ago.

[Risto the Great]

Akzion, thanks for the heads up. About 1000 Greeks were not able to view this forum. It is not a good idea because they have a great deal to learn and we would not want to allow them to keep living in their deluded and racist cesspool forever. We have rectified the IP ban.

Vodenka's name and activities were a front page in Stohos newspaper a couple of months ago.

I can see it now .... front page in any other country ... "Possible crazy separatist teaches native language and dances to an ethnic minority".
Can you think of a good page number to place that remarkable news?
In Greece, it is understandably of extreme importance and is symbolic of the deep rooted question mark over its many ethnicities. One day you might look within to get the answer.

[Soldier of Macedon]

All other Greek users since the beginning of this forum (about 30 or 50) have also been banned.

Wrong. Spartan, Alki, Fatso and Wanderer are all Greeks, and while they may not post frequently, none have ever been banned from here. Good ratio, don't you think? Of the 100's of Greeks that have come, only 4 or 5 were able to remain non-racist. Any more lies you want to spin?

Do you think that by calling me a fool, I’ll be offended and go? I’m not easily offended.

If I truly wanted you gone, I would ban you the second you're detected each time. I call you a fool because you behave like one, not because I want to offend you.

Greece didn't ban your forum.

No, it did much worse, it banned the Macedonians in Greece from identifying themselves and their language as Macedonian. Racism at its worst - the denial of self-identification.

Vodenka's name and activities were a front page in Stohos newspaper a couple of months ago.

Really? Do you have a link so we can see what sort of review your 'democracy' gave her and her activities?

[George S.]

All i can say is after the way we are treated on our forum we have a right to be offended.Especially when racism is involved & there's not a skerrick of respect you know where the door is.Do you really think we should put up with the shit from the likes of you who committed genocide on the macedonian people & lying & denying what it has done.THere is no sense in that.

[makedonche]

Azion

Makedonche,
I don’t know as much as you, about his past, but I’m expecting, in vain, for more info. Truth is, nobody believes you abroad. It seems there’s an internationally established impression that this man is a “conscience prisoner”, targeted and hunted and… Julian Assanged. It seems that any country would deny extradition. As for your people, they would have to revolt against… a foreign country, if they are indeed manic against him. Is this international impression unfair, baseless? See again the questions of post#16 or this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbis...onal_Reactions

Your repeated failure to address my question regarding me "demanding"
peoples justice, is infallible evidence of your existence in denial and has been demonstrated here for all to see.
You also fail to see, despite it being clearly documented for you, the following:-
"an arrest warrant issued by Interpol for an effective sentence passed by the Macedonian court."
If he has done nothing wrong then interpol would not have issued the warrant, if he had done nothing wrong he would not have fled, if he had done nothing wrong he would have defended himself or stayed and appealed against the warrant - peoples own actions quite often attest to their level of guilt or innocence- you analyse his actions and explain them to me.
Your use of wikipedia as a reference again speaks volumes about your level of knowledge and understanding and abilities (hint - denial).
This international impressiopn you speak of is but a handfull of comments - come back and see me when you have comments from the majority of countries in the world, before you try and claim it is an international impression.
So he's a "conscience prisoner" targeted and hunted, Julian Assanged.....what a weak analogy and poor comparison - Assange is releasing documents and facts and charged with rape - where do you see the similarity? The only similarity is that he also needs to go and face the charges and appeal them or defend them in accordance with the law.........remember that thing called "the law", it applies to all people, priests & information brokers are not exempt. The only "conscience" issues he has is a guilty conscience!
Lastly tell me about "peoples justice" in Greece, is there any? Are the people demonstrating and rioting?

[Dimko-piperkata]

Bulgarians in Macedonia threaten to establish a new church, Macedonian Vecer daily writes on Monday.
The Bulgarian Culture Club in Skopje has sent a letter to the head of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, Archbishop Stefan, in which the club asks him to apologise for the non-Christian statements, with which he has anathematised the Macedonian Bulgarians, saying that they are traitors. Otherwise they will require from the Bulgarian Orthodox Church to restore its historical eparchies for the thousands of Macedonian Bulgarians, who live on the territory of the country.
“As it is well know, after the break-up of Tito’s Yugoslavia, thousands of Orthodox Christians from the Republic of Bulgaria regained their Bulgarian ethnic identity, declaring their Bulgarian origin.
Your statement is some kind of an anathema and a refusal on behalf of the Macedonian Orthodox Church to take care of the spiritual needs of the Macedonian Bulgarians,” Lazar Mladenov writes in the letter to Archbishop Stefan.
Vecer daily points out that the motive for the letter of the Bulgarian Culture Club in Skopje was the statement of Archbishop Stefan in which he compares Bishop Jovan Vraniskovski to Spaska Mitrova.
“The idea of ‘Bulgarisation’ of the Archbishopric of Ohrid was front-burner issue on several national televisions in Sofia. Vraniskovski over the last nine years has been presenting the Archbishopric as part of the Serbian Orthodox Church, while when in Greece – as part of the Greek Orthodox Church; and while in Sofia – as part of the Bulgarian. His statements encouraged the Bulgarian nationalists, who raised the idea about a new pseudo church in Macedonia,” the newspaper comments.

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n240309

[Soldier of Macedon]

A half dozen pijanici and bugaromani calling themselves "Bulgarians" club in Skopje, making demands from Macedonians, lol, it must be Bulgarian jokes week......

[DedoAleko]

Уапсен Јован Вранишковски


При обид да влезе во Македонија денеска на граничниот премин Меџитлија е уапсен расчинетиот владика на Македонската православна црква, Јован Вранишковски.


Вранишковски во октомври 2009 година беше осуден на две ипол години затворската казна, при што требаше да врати околу 250 илјади евра. Пресудата велешкиот Суд ја донесе за случајот за кој Вранишковски во 2007 година на двапати беше ослободуван, но Апелацискиот суд два пати ги укинуваше пресудите.

Вранишкоски на Македонска првославна црква треба да и плати штета од 14.804.211 денари, а на ПИОМ 111.892 денари, а пресудата му беше изречена во отстуство, бидејќи тој избега од земјата поради притворот што му беше одреден.

Претходно, Вранишковски беше на издржување на две иполгодишната затворска казна во Идризово што му беше изречена за предизвикување расна и верска омраза, нетрпеливост и раздор, но и за самоволие, за која реагираше Српската православна црква, државното раководство на Србија и неколку невладини организации. За сите пресуди тој во затвор требаше да мине вкупно четири години.

Судот во Велес пред повеќе години му изрече казна затвор од две години на расчинетиот владика Вранишковски за противправно присвојување на донацијата од Трифун Костовски, во износ од 57 илјади евра.

Апсењето на Вранишковски го потврдија и од МВР, од каде наскоро со детални информации за целиот настан ќе излезе портпаролот на Министерството за внатрешни работи, Иво Котевски.

izvor: http://sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/makedoni...-vranishkovski

[Dimko-piperkata]

YEAH !!! Vraniskovski Arrested at Macedonian - Greek border

Monday, 12 December 2011

Jovan Vraniskovski - a former priest of the Macedonian Orthodox Church convicted for embezzlement - was arrested Monday at the Medzitlija border crossing with Greece while attempting to enter Macedonia.
In October 2009, Vraniskovski was sentenced to 2,5 years in prison and was supposed to pay off about 250.000 euros.

Vraniskovski is to pay 14.804.211 denars to the Macedonian Orthodox Church in damages and 111.892 to the Pension and Disability Insurance Fund of Macedonia. He has been sentenced in absentia, because the former priest managed to flee the country to avoid being detained.
Previously, the priest who defected to the Serbian church, has served a 2,5 year sentence in prison after being convicted for triggering racial and religious hatred, intolerance and discord. The Serbian Orthodox Church, Serbia's state leaders and several non-governmental organisations have condemned the sentencing. Vraniskovski was supposed to spend four years in prison following all of the verdicts.

A court in Veles has sentenced him to two years in prison for illegally pilfering a donation from a famous Skopje businessman.
In accordance with a wanted circular by the Interpol after a court order issued in 2010, Vraniskovski was wanted to serve a sentence of 2,5 years in prison.
The former priest has been immediately detained and taken to a prison in Skopje.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19829/45/

well done

he need to get 250.000 lashes for every € he snitched.

[George S.]

so what else is new with priests they are allways roughting the system trying to milk as much as they can.Afterall they are human.