BBC: Greece's invisible minority - the Macedonian Slavs

[Carlin]

Here we go -

Greek ambassador refutes 'Macedonian minority' claim in BBC report

URL:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/238067/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-ambassador-refutes-macedonian-minority-claim-in-bbc-report

Greece's Ambassador to the UK, Dimitris Karamitsos-Tziras, send a letter of complaint to the BBC on Monday, following a report which spoke of the existence of a “Macedonian minority” in the country.

Karamitsos-Tziras said the report contains “important historical inaccuracies and distortions against Greece” and “does not do justice” to the Prespes agreement by attempting to raise a “non-existent issue.”

The article, titled “Greece's invisible minority - the Macedonian Slavs,” argued that, by ratifying the Prespes accord with the renamed North Macedonia, “Greece has implicitly recognised the existence of a Macedonian language and ethnicity.”

The agreement, signed between Athens and Skopje to resolve the 27-year-old name dispute, does not recognize an ethnicity, but a nationality, the ambassador said, adding that while Greece recognizes equality before the law, the country recognizes only one minority - the Muslim.

“Greece maintains the right to refer to the people who belong to the majority ethnic group residing in the neighboring country as it has done to date, while the citizens of that ethnicity retain the right to self-determination,” he said in the letter.

[JPMKD]

Hopefully the BBC stands by their article and reporting. If the UN and other human rights groups don't follow through then WTF was this whole "name issue" and agreement about? So far I have seen some lip service from Amnesty and a few other groups, but The Hauge IICJ (or whatever the hell place FYROMFROMRONM "won" a court case on Greece violating the old Interim accord...has proved useless. I am still baffled by the speed and idiocy of this decision.

[YuriB]

There is a knee-jerk reaction in Greece to the term minority. Most Greeks perceive it as a first step towards autonomy and subsequently, secession. Probably, because Greece has used its own minorities in the past to expand its territory.

I believe the whole thing needs to be rebranded as maintaining the cultural individuality of the region. It's crucial (somehow) to make the average Greek citizen to realize they have lots to gain by supporting (or the very least, tolerating) the local Macedonian culture.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

There is a knee-jerk reaction in Greece to the term minority. Most Greeks perceive it as a first step towards autonomy and subsequently, secession. Probably, because Greece has used its own minorities in the past to expand its territory.

I believe the whole thing needs to be rebranded as maintaining the cultural individuality of the region. It's crucial (somehow) to make the average Greek citizen to realize they have lots to gain by supporting (or the very least, tolerating) the local Macedonian culture.

In fairness we would probably secede if given the institutions to do so.

[Risto the Great]

In fairness we would probably secede if given the institutions to do so.

If the institutions mean kicking out all the imported former Turkish nationals who arrived under the Lausanne Treaty, then maybe. Otherwise, I doubt it. The region is mixed (on purpose) and the time has long gone when ethnic Macedonians were the dominant people of the region.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

If the institutions mean kicking out all the imported former Turkish nationals who arrived under the Lausanne Treaty, then maybe. Otherwise, I doubt it. The region is mixed (on purpose) and the time has long gone when ethnic Macedonians were the dominant people of the region.

Fair points, though try to secede and actually secede are different.

[Rogi]

Fair points, though try to secede and actually secede are different.

The Macedonian minority in Greece is a cultural one, not a political one that has any national secessionist goals, not for at least 50 years.

It's mostly about freedom of cultural, ethnic and linguistic expression.

[Carlin]

BBC rejects the Greek note over its report on the Macedonian minority in Greece

URL:

https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/bbc-rejects-the-greek-note-over-its-report-on-the-macedonian-minority-in-greece/

The protest note that the Greek embassy in London sent to the BBC over its report on the persecuted Macedonian minority, where it rejected the service’s claims as unacceptable, has been rejected by the BBC as “disappointing”.

In its response to the Greek ambassador Dimitris Caramitsos-Tziras, the British public service broadcaster expressed surprise and dismay with the Greek government regarding the published article and that it contained historical inaccuracies and that there was no “Macedonian minority” in Greece.

The Prespa agreement, according to the Greek diplomat, is not a tacit recognition of a “Macedonian minority,” nor does it lead to the recognition of such a minority. Ambassador Caramitsos-Tziras urges the BBC to publish the full letter with the positions of Athens.

Greek diplomatic sources underline that the Prespa Agreement eliminates any possibility of raising the minority issue.

[JPMKD]

BBC rejects the Greek note over its report on the Macedonian minority in Greece

URL:

https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/bbc-rejects-the-greek-note-over-its-report-on-the-macedonian-minority-in-greece/

The protest note that the Greek embassy in London sent to the BBC over its report on the persecuted Macedonian minority, where it rejected the service’s claims as unacceptable, has been rejected by the BBC as “disappointing”.

In its response to the Greek ambassador Dimitris Caramitsos-Tziras, the British public service broadcaster expressed surprise and dismay with the Greek government regarding the published article and that it contained historical inaccuracies and that there was no “Macedonian minority” in Greece.

The Prespa agreement, according to the Greek diplomat, is not a tacit recognition of a “Macedonian minority,” nor does it lead to the recognition of such a minority. Ambassador Caramitsos-Tziras urges the BBC to publish the full letter with the positions of Athens.

Greek diplomatic sources underline that the Prespa Agreement eliminates any possibility of raising the minority issue.

Awesome!
It appears there are still unresolved "good neighborly relations"

[Carlin]

Asymmetric reactions

http://www.ekathimerini.com/238069/opinion/ekathimerini/comment/asymmetric-reactions

It is by no means the first time that this has happened. An opinion piece – not a news story – is published on a foreign news website which triggers a domestic reaction as if it were a political event itself of great magnitude. In this instance, a BBC report on Sunday which referred to a Macedonian minority in Greece that speaks a Macedonian language.

The, albeit reasonable, reactions in Greece end up rendering the report as something of a threat. This asymmetry shows up Greece as anything but a country brimming with self-confidence. It is, rather, a reflection of sheer provincialism and unjustified insecurity.

History is not written or rewritten by news reports. And our foreign policy should not appear to be shaken or defined by them.

[maco2envy]

Greek diplomatic sources underline that the Prespa Agreement eliminates any possibility of raising the minority issue.

But this is contrary to international law (what Carlin specified in a earlier comment). So how does that work?

[Carlin]

But this is contrary to international law (what Carlin specified in a earlier comment). So how does that work?

Greece will continue to be intransigent. No (international) pressure whatsoever.

After BBC report, Russia’s Sputnik raises ‘Macedonian minority’ issue

URL:

https://www.tovima.gr/2019/02/26/international/after-bbc-report-russias-sputnik-raises-macedonian-minority-issue/

In the interview, Voskopoulos compares the Macedonians to the Jews in Germany in the 1930’s and the Greek government with the Nazi regime.

Opponents of the Greece-North Macedonia Prespa Agreement are up in arms about press reports by both the BBC and now the Russian state-run new service Sputnik that use interviews with Greeks of Macedonian descent who speak about the existence of a minority in the Greek province of Macedonia and about state discrimination.

They say that the agreement concluded by PM Alexis Tsipras and North Macedonia’s Prime Minister Zoran Zaev leaves plenty of room for misinterpretation and exploitation by forces which wish to stir problems and push for the recognition of a “Macedonian minority in Greece”.

While the Greek government’s intention was for the agreement to limit or totally eradicate the historical irredentism of North Macedonia, critics now say that Athens’ recognition of a Macedonian language and nationality may be a prelude for a push for recognition of a “Macedonian minority” in Greece and in due course for autonomy.

The 24 February BBC report refers to suppression of the Macedonian language by the Greek state, and led to a strongly worded letter to the BBC by Greece’s Ambassador to London. The report acknowledged that a Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th century amidst conflicting geopolitical rivalries between Balkan states.

At the same time, the government of North Macedonia sent the UN a note verbale regarding how Skopje intends to introduce the country’s new name and clarified what one will call individuals, services, products, and institutions.

In Athens, the Russian state-run Sputnik’s report was viewed as the next stage in Moscow’s fervent opposition to the Prespa Agreement and to North Macedonia’s admission to Nato, with an effort to stir tensions in northern Greece with a push for recognition of a Macedonian minority.

After the Prespa Agreement was signed, the Greek government expelled two Russian diplomats and banned the entry of two more over alleged efforts to foment opposition to the agreement in Northern Greece.

Sputnik’s report features a lengthy interview with Pavlos Voskopoulos, a co-founder of the Florina-based Macedonian Rainbow party which received fewer than 5,000 votes in the 2009 general election.

In the interview, Voskopoulos compares the Macedonians to the Jews in Germany in the 1930’s and the Greek government with the Nazi regime.

The story asserted that there are 500 villages where the “Macedonian” language is spoken, from Kastoria to Drama and from Naousa to Veria, and that in the Prespa Agreement Greece recognises the existence of a Macedonian language, which it never did in nearly a century.

Voskopoulos expressed the demand that the “Macedonian” language be taught in Greek schools. He avoids mentioning how many Greek citizens are Macedonian speakers.

[Carlin]

I'm surprised Bulgarians didn't "react" earlier.

Bulgarian member of the European Parliament tells the BBC that Macedonians in Greece are in fact Bulgarians

URL:

https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/bulgarian-member-of-the-european-parliament-tells-the-bbc-that-the-macedonians-in-greece-are-in-fact-bulgarians/

Bulgarian member of the European Parliament Andrey Kovatchev, who comes from the ruling GERB party, also responded to the BBC report about the century long repression of the Macedonian minority in Greece. According to Kovatchev, BBC should’ve named the minority as Bulgarian, not Macedonian, given that, according to the official Bulgarian position, Macedonians are Bulgarians.

I was very surprised several days ago when I read the report titled “Greece’s invisible minority – the Macedonian Slavs”. The article covers a very important topic – the historic minorities in northern Greece, which was taboo for many decades. Still, there is a major flaw in its historic overview that starts with the Balkan wars and covers the events until today. There is no doubt about the ethnic background of the non-Greek communities living in the contemporary northern Greek territories, the regions of Thrace and Macedonia. They are ethnic Bulgarians and this is recognized not only in international scientific archives but also in the Greek historic and scientific archives, Kovatchev says in an open letter sent to the BBC.

Greek diplomats officially reacted to the BBC and complained about its findings that Macedonians in the Greek held region Macedonians call Aegean Macedonia, have been repressed and denied the right to speak the Macedonian language, sing Macedonian songs, were exposed to summary executions and deportations. Many Greek nationalists reacted angrily online.

The Macedonian Foreign Affairs Ministry, on the other hand, told Republika that they will too react to the BBC, but for the several occasions in the text and in the title when the term “Macedonian Slavs” was used to describe the community, instead of Macedonians. According to the Macedonian MFA, the Prespa treaty provides that only the term Macedonians will be used to refer to the ethnic community, a point which Greece does not agree with.

According to Kovatchev, the minority population is Bulgarian, but in the period after the Second World War it was influenced by Yugoslavia and Marshall Tito to assume a Macedonian national identity. Kovatchev cites documents in which the ethnic structure of the Balkans has been investigated and the population exchange treaty which Bulgaria and Greece signed to further his claim that these minority Macedonians should be referred to as Bulgarians. With the Prespa treaty and the treaty signed with Bulgaria, Macedonia gave up its right to support minority rights of Macedonians in both countries. This opens the door for Bulgaria to assume this role, in Greece and in Albania.

[Niko777]

On the question from Greek Journalists on whether there is a "Northmacedonian" minority in Greece, Nikola Dimitrov responds "Skopje and Athens have agreed that there will be no interventions taken on this issue.

VIDEO: https://youtu.be/FKXOsobKPuY

[Risto the Great]

Northadonia is the enemy of Macedonians.