Modern Greece 1st constitution, a "Greek" is a Christian, 1827!

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    #31
    Terranova, you are about to be deleted. Think about some of the stupid things you have been saying and tell me if this is real dialogue.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • TerraNova
      Banned
      • Nov 2008
      • 473

      #32
      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      Terranova, you are about to be deleted. Think about some of the stupid things you have been saying and tell me if this is real dialogue.
      I would appreciate it ..if you have a reason . (i can accept "you are a thorn in my ass" as a reason too).

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        #33
        You should work hard then...to make money,so when the time comes and the money is offered to you too... you ll stand up and won't sell your soul to the Hellenes!
        You are not even a pimple on my arse.
        But text like the above is ridiculous and merely indicates a "Kafe Greek", not someone who can rebut with a sliver of integrity. So enjoy your stay but don't count on being able to contribute much longer.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • TerraNova
          Banned
          • Nov 2008
          • 473

          #34
          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          You are not even a pimple on my arse.
          But text like the above is ridiculous and merely indicates a "Kafe Greek", not someone who can rebut with a sliver of integrity. So enjoy your stay but don't count on being able to contribute much longer.
          This was irony and not a belittlement comment for your people.

          Irony cause i just find the argument that hundreds of thousands of people can change their ethnic consciousness ,just for some money ,simply ridiculous.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #35
            i just find the argument that hundreds of thousands of people can change their ethnic consciousness ,just for some money ,simply ridiculous.
            A) These Asians never had an ethnic consciousness
            B) The only affiliation these Asians had with the Greek state was the common Orthodox faith headed by Constantinople
            C) Most of these Asians could not speak Greek
            D) Most of these Asians lost everything they had
            E) Most of these Asians were given preference over the local Macedonian population in the Greek occupied territories to the north


            Under such circumstances, it is not difficult to see how people can be manipulated. What is most ridiculous? The fact that these people, who never had a 'Greek', or 'Hellenic', let alone 'Macedonian' identity, are now promoted by the modern Greeks as the descendants of the ancient Macedonians, from Turkey!!

            Yes, ironic, and ridiculous, two words that would fit in quite well with a revised Greek constitution.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Giorikas
              Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 316

              #36
              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              You are not even a pimple on my arse.
              But text like the above is ridiculous and merely indicates a "Kafe Greek", not someone who can rebut with a sliver of integrity. So enjoy your stay but don't count on being able to contribute much longer.
              You're being petty here Risto. You have clearly explained that your preferred way to deal with Greeks is to play with them, cat and mouse style, find their weakness and carrying on by utterly destroying them. I believe your greatness could be compromised by taking unrefined and ungreat measures like the ones you are threatening Terra Nova with.

              Comment

              • Giorikas
                Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 316

                #37
                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                A) These Asians never had an ethnic consciousness
                B) The only affiliation these Asians had with the Greek state was the common Orthodox faith headed by Constantinople
                C) Most of these Asians could not speak Greek
                D) Most of these Asians lost everything they had
                E) Most of these Asians were given preference over the local Macedonian population in the Greek occupied territories to the north


                Under such circumstances, it is not difficult to see how people can be manipulated. What is most ridiculous? The fact that these people, who never had a 'Greek', or 'Hellenic', let alone 'Macedonian' identity, are now promoted by the modern Greeks as the descendants of the ancient Macedonians, from Turkey!!

                Yes, ironic, and ridiculous, two words that would fit in quite well with a revised Greek constitution.
                1) Questioning their right to identify as they wanted to is against the rules of this forum as far as I know.
                2) Anyone with a bit of common sense converts to the stronger side, not the weaker side. Greeks were a minority, and their religion merely tolerated as a second rate religion. They paid the bill for that. They were the weaker side.
                3) Greece was a bankrupt and new country. A mess. Many Greeks have even directly been channeled through to the US since Greece could not provide for them in any way. Those you call 'Asians' in stead of how they wished and wish to be identified as, were usually wealthy. Greeks, Jews, Armenians traded, were bankers, accountants and diplomats for the Ottomans and were 'well off'. They had more to lose leaving their birth lands.
                4) There should in any case not a problem because of the immigrants to Greece, since Risto the Great educated me and taught me that in majority ethnic Macedonians were not murdered or expelled but remained there and were later 'ethnocided' by Greeks. That could have happened with or without new immigrants who were according to you not even able to spaek Greek anyway.
                5) It is true that a small part, in particular those Greeks from Kapadocia, only spoke Turkish but wrote Turkish with the Greek alfabet, in addition to being Greek orthodox. That should give you a hint about their conciousness. The majority spoke Greek, a complete normal phenomenon in Izmir, Istanbul, (west Turkey in general) and on the black sea.
                Last edited by Giorikas; 12-08-2008, 12:34 PM.

                Comment

                • TerraNova
                  Banned
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 473

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Giorikas View Post
                  5) It is true that a small part, in particular those Greeks from Kapadocia, only spoke Turkish but wrote Turkish with the Greek alfabet, in addition to being Greek orthodox. That should give you a hint about their conciousness. The majority spoke Greek, a complete normal phenomenon in Izmir, Istanbul, (west Turkey in general) and on the black sea.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    #39
                    1) Questioning their right to identify as they wanted to is against the rules of this forum as far as I know.
                    Absolutely correct my diplomat, please proceed with forwarding the plethora of evidence which highlights all of the attempts at self-designation via an "ethnic Hellenic identity" in respect to the Christians in Asia that were shipped into Europe 80 years ago.
                    2) Anyone with a bit of common sense converts to the stronger side, not the weaker side. Greeks were a minority, and their religion merely tolerated as a second rate religion. They paid the bill for that. They were the weaker side.
                    You seem to be confused, so I will repeat, the only affinity that the Christians of Asia had with the Greek state was the common Orthodox faith headed by Constantinople. That has nothing to do with a weaker or stronger side, it has to do with a simple fact that has been mutated into some sort of plastic glory that tries to pass of these peasants as some long lost "Hellenes" that always considered themselves as "Hellenes". If you wish to claim this, show us the proof.
                    3) Greece was a bankrupt and new country. A mess. Many Greeks have even directly been channeled through to the US since Greece could not provide for them in any way. Those you call 'Asians' in stead of how they wished and wish to be identified as, were usually wealthy. Greeks, Jews, Armenians traded, were bankers, accountants and diplomats for the Ottomans and were 'well off'. They had more to lose leaving their birth lands.
                    I think the initial point has gone way over your head. The overwhelming mass of these people did not speak Greek as a native tongue, and those few that did, spoke a form that was difficult to comprehend by the common Greek citizen, already immersed in their purified linguistic dreams.
                    4) There should in any case not a problem because of the immigrants to Greece, since Risto the Great educated me and taught me that in majority ethnic Macedonians were not murdered or expelled but remained there and were later 'ethnocided' by Greeks. That could have happened with or without new immigrants who were according to you not even able to spaek Greek anyway.
                    Wrong. The fact that there were now several hundred thousands of new immigrants that had runaway from war-torn regions and were looking for a home and sympathy, made them the perfect tools to further the genocidal propaganda of the Greek state. They were prepared to be moulded into something new as all they had that was old was gone, without them, the plans of the Greek state were bound to fail.
                    5) It is true that a small part, in particular those Greeks from Kapadocia, only spoke Turkish but wrote Turkish with the Greek alfabet, in addition to being Greek orthodox. That should give you a hint about their conciousness. The majority spoke Greek, a complete normal phenomenon in Izmir, Istanbul, (west Turkey in general) and on the black sea.
                    The official language of the church and Roman (Christian) millet was Greek, this does not in any way suggest that the native language of all the adherents was Greek, far from it. But of course, as I invited earlier, please proceed with showing us the evidence to support what you say in respect to the "ethnic Hellenic" identity and "native" Greek language of these Asians.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Giorikas View Post
                      You're being petty here Risto. You have clearly explained that your preferred way to deal with Greeks is to play with them, cat and mouse style, find their weakness and carrying on by utterly destroying them. I believe your greatness could be compromised by taking unrefined and ungreat measures like the ones you are threatening Terra Nova with.
                      Giorikas, if I am to continue using fighting metaphors, Terranova is presently very busy punching himself in the face. If you want to throw his towel in the ring for him, do so.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Giorikas
                        Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 316

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        Giorikas, if I am to continue using fighting metaphors, Terranova is presently very busy punching himself in the face. If you want to throw his towel in the ring for him, do so.
                        Just relax, enjoy the waves and the cute Hawaian girls Risto. I think you're just looking for excuses. He's not being very busy doing what you're accusing him of.

                        Comment

                        • Giorikas
                          Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 316

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                          Absolutely correct my diplomat, please proceed with forwarding the plethora of evidence which highlights all of the attempts at self-designation via an "ethnic Hellenic identity" in respect to the Christians in Asia that were shipped into Europe 80 years ago.

                          You seem to be confused, so I will repeat, the only affinity that the Christians of Asia had with the Greek state was the common Orthodox faith headed by Constantinople. That has nothing to do with a weaker or stronger side, it has to do with a simple fact that has been mutated into some sort of plastic glory that tries to pass of these peasants as some long lost "Hellenes" that always considered themselves as "Hellenes". If you wish to claim this, show us the proof.

                          I think the initial point has gone way over your head. The overwhelming mass of these people did not speak Greek as a native tongue, and those few that did, spoke a form that was difficult to comprehend by the common Greek citizen, already immersed in their purified linguistic dreams.

                          Wrong. The fact that there were now several hundred thousands of new immigrants that had runaway from war-torn regions and were looking for a home and sympathy, made them the perfect tools to further the genocidal propaganda of the Greek state. They were prepared to be moulded into something new as all they had that was old was gone, without them, the plans of the Greek state were bound to fail.

                          The official language of the church and Roman (Christian) millet was Greek, this does not in any way suggest that the native language of all the adherents was Greek, far from it. But of course, as I invited earlier, please proceed with showing us the evidence to support what you say in respect to the "ethnic Hellenic" identity and "native" Greek language of these Asians.
                          They had nothing to prove to anyone ... You are the one that seem confused on that point. The Greek state was a new phenomena. Up to the time Greece came into existance as state, they had no state to identify with. They were connected through language (most of the time), script, (Kappadocians), religion. Apart from that they were surely treated differently by Ottomans in terms of taxes in case they might forget. The evidence is abundant really.
                          Armenians did the same thing when it came to their ways of identifying themselves. Are you telling me that 'ethnic' Greeks and Armenians are the same now?
                          In any case, all this blabla about how 'ethnic' or not some are is not something the average Greek, Armenian, Jew, Bulgarian that lived in the Ottoman empire would on a daily basis be dealing with. They just lived it. No analyses by soldiers or Great people were needed to re-affirm what was their reality, and honestly speaking I am not going to bother that long to convince anybody of that.

                          The original point did not go way over my head. You are doing the same now as other here on this board. What you claim is not entirely incorrect, always a tiny bit of correct information that is later mutilated.
                          Some did indeed not speak Greek. That was a small number. (even if they are much more then what in my estimation is currently the number of Macedonians in Greece) But it fits some agendas better to blow that number and that fact way out of proportion. The map Terra Nova showed -if you accept that as evidence- proves what I said. They were the exceptions to the rule, but we still know they were not Turkish. No Turkish would write Turkish in Greek script. In fact, most Turkish in those days did not write, and if they did they would write in the Arabic script. No Turk would change his religion to become Christian. That would not make any sense at all.

                          To put it differently, we lost in Turkey, and we won in the Northern province. We took our people home. That's not genocide, that's also not genocidal propaganda. That's our right. That you can not accept that they are Greek is really your problem. It is not something that will be debated but I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Gruevski will one day start writing a letter about that, which will no doubt be ignored once again.

                          Comment

                          • TerraNova
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 473

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            If you want to throw his towel in the ring for him, do so.
                            Ups...Greek language all over East Thrace,West and North Asia Minor..."Christian Turks"??
                            Ok ok Bulgarian in RoM ...

                            Did you feel the punch on your nose Risto ?

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              #44
                              Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                              Ups...Greek language all over East Thrace,West and North Asia Minor..."Christian Turks"??
                              Ok ok Bulgarian in RoM ...

                              Did you feel the punch on your nose Risto ?
                              If you write it ... it does not mean it is true.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • TerraNova
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2008
                                • 473

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                                If you write it ... it does not mean it is true.
                                That's for all of us -isn't?

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