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  • MacedonianHellene
    Banned
    • Nov 2009
    • 10

    #61
    What I see is that our views differ. That our understanding of history differs.

    And that, one would have to agree, is a problem..

    Comment

    • makedonin
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 1668

      #62
      You can feel free to change your mind/view.

      It would be a start in the right direction
      To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

      Comment

      • TrueMacedonian
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2009
        • 3810

        #63
        Originally posted by MacedonianHellene View Post
        What I see is that our views differ. That our understanding of history differs.

        And that, one would have to agree, is a problem..
        I don't know whether to call you imposter Hellene or imposter Macedonian now
        Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #64
          Originally posted by MacedonianHellene View Post
          What I see is that our views differ. That our understanding of history differs.

          And that, one would have to agree, is a problem..
          You should rely on what the real historians say. Namely that Macedonians had a Hellenistic period about 2000 years ago. In which case, feel free to celebrate this blip in history and rename yourself "HellenisticMacedonian". Otherwise you are merely misleading everyone. And that, one would have to agree, is a problem
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • MacedonianHellene
            Banned
            • Nov 2009
            • 10

            #65
            The 'real' historians that say Ancient Macedon was a Greek Kingdom, outnumber by far! the ones that say differently.

            Now, who am I going to believe?

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              #66
              Originally posted by MacedonianHellene View Post
              The 'real' historians that say Ancient Macedon was a Greek Kingdom, outnumber by far! the ones that say differently.

              Now, who am I going to believe?
              No. No they don't and you might have to prove your silly statement in the history section of this forum. But the fact you appear to deny the HellenISTIC period of Macedonians suggest you won't understand much of what you read. But we have come to expect this of people who purport to be Greek nowadays.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Bill77
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 4545

                #67
                Originally posted by MacedonianHellene View Post
                The 'real' historians that say Ancient Macedon was a Greek Kingdom, outnumber by far! the ones that say differently.

                Now, who am I going to believe?
                Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah oh my god i can't breathe hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
                http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                Comment

                • Bill77
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 4545

                  #68
                  Originally posted by MacedonianHellene View Post

                  For example, how will we distinguish between your Macedonian wine,
                  and our Macedonian wine?
                  The same goes for other products with 'name of origin', cheese ets.
                  Simple problem, You name your wine with a label "FOROM" (Foreign Ocupied Region Of Macedonia) which is true and apropriate.

                  By the way, is your name Nikos by any chance?
                  http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #69
                    Originally posted by MacedonianHellene View Post
                    For example, how will we distinguish between your Macedonian wine,
                    and our Macedonian wine?
                    The same goes for other products with 'name of origin', cheese ets.
                    I must be confused. Has Greece renamed itself as Macedonia recently?
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • MacedonianHellene
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 10

                      #70
                      No Risto.. Greece, in antiquity was made from a multitude of city states.
                      I assume you know that.
                      Macedonia was one of them, as was Argos, Sparta, Athens, Corinth, ets ets.

                      A wine from the Peloponese is called Peloponesian wine, but its Greek.
                      Nemea wine is called Nemea wine, but its Greek.
                      Tsantalis for example, makes Macedonian wine, but its Greek wine.

                      But that's beyond the point.

                      With the same frevor you guys defend your identity, something which I respect and understand,
                      we Greeks protect our identity. And either we like it or not, Macedonia is part of Greek history to.

                      Honestly, we have to work out a way to distinguish ourselves from each other.

                      If we solve this, I think we can enjoy a prosperous future in the region, and sit down and drink Raki's and Macedonian wines, knowing which wine is from where, Greek Macedonia or your Macedonia (problem pending solution..) and laugh at the times when we used to speak ill of each other, and attack each other.

                      If we look even deeper, on the big chess board of the big powers, we may even assume that it suits some, for us (Greeks and Macedonians) to be on bad terms.
                      They want us to have ethnic tensions, they want us to be on bad terms.
                      Then they can play on those differences and cards as they want.

                      I say we need to accept each other as Macedonian (Greeks are also Macedonian, as they are Spartan ets ets).stop fighting, and extend an olive branch to each other.

                      We need to find a way to distinguish ourselves, and many of the issues that arise,
                      because of this confusion, will be no more.
                      Last edited by MacedonianHellene; 11-21-2009, 06:53 PM.

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #71
                        Macedonia was not a state of Greece you don't know your history back to school with you & some castor oil.Macedonia was specfically excluded from participating in the trojan war hundreds of years before alexander the great.You had to be Greek to participate in the Trojan WArWhy because Macedonia was not Greek.Macedonia was a kingdom with a king.Where as Macedonia was not a city STate like the Greeks were Get your facts rightQuestion Why was Aristotle banished from Greece????







                        A..Aristotle was banished because he wasn't Greek,what was he he was a Macedonian!!
                        Last edited by George S.; 11-21-2009, 07:18 PM. Reason: edit
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Bill77
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 4545

                          #72
                          Originally posted by George S. View Post
                          Macedonia was not a state of Greece you don't know your history back to school with you & some castor oil.Macedonia was specfically excluded from participating in the trojan war hundreds of years before alexander the great.Why because Macedonia was not Greek.Macedonia was a kingdom with a king.Where as Macedonia was not a city STate Get your facts rightQuestion Why was Aristotle banished from Greece????
                          He can start with this class George. http://greece.mrdonn.org/city-states.html its a Greek site called "Ancient Greece For Kids" lol

                          Just a clip from that link regarding Greek states.

                          Five of the most powerful Greek city-states

                          Athens

                          Sparta

                          Corinth

                          Megara

                          Argos
                          http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                          Comment

                          • George S.
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 10116

                            #73
                            thats right Bill you got it.
                            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                            GOTSE DELCEV

                            Comment

                            • Bill77
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 4545

                              #74
                              Originally posted by MacedonianHellene View Post
                              No Risto.. Greece, in antiquity was made from a multitude of city states.
                              I assume you know that.
                              Macedonia was one of them, as was Argos, Sparta, Athens, Corinth, ets ets.

                              A wine from the Peloponese is called Peloponesian wine, but its Greek.
                              Nemea wine is called Nemea wine, but its Greek.
                              Tsantalis for example, makes Macedonian wine, but its Greek wine.

                              But that's beyond the point.

                              With the same frevor you guys defend your identity, something which I respect and understand,
                              we Greeks protect our identity. And either we like it or not, Macedonia is part of Greek history to.

                              Honestly, we have to work out a way to distinguish ourselves from each other.

                              If we solve this, I think we can enjoy a prosperous future in the region, and sit down and drink Raki's and Macedonian wines, knowing which wine is from where, Greek Macedonia or your Macedonia (problem pending solution..) and laugh at the times when we used to speak ill of each other, and attack each other.

                              If we look even deeper, on the big chess board of the big powers, we may even assume that it suits some, for us (Greeks and Macedonians) to be on bad terms.
                              They want us to have ethnic tensions, they want us to be on bad terms.
                              Then they can play on those differences and cards as they want.

                              I say we need to accept each other as Macedonian (Greeks are also Macedonian, as they are Spartan ets ets).stop fighting, and extend an olive branch to each other.

                              We need to find a way to distinguish ourselves, and many of the issues that arise,
                              because of this confusion, will be no more.
                              Forget about your Grog for a moment. You did not answer Risto's question.

                              Has Greece renamed itself as Macedonia recently? you reply with unsubstantiated ancient Greek propaganda. Lets talk about after the 1913 division and ileagal ocupation of Macedonia which your country first named the northern region as 'New territory' while the Ministry in Salonika was called the Ministry of Northern Greece.

                              It was not till the begining of 1990's Greece started using the word Macedonia. Just quoting a section from a John Shea book which was writen in 1997, which is an Excellent analysis of the Macedonian-Greek conflict.

                              Quote: "there were periods in Greece when use of the name 'Macedonia' was avoided with administrative measures. After the Balkan wars (191213) the area of Macedonia under Greek rule was called ... the 'New territory' while the Ministry in Salonika was called the Ministry of Northern Greece. Whence such zeal to pre-empt the names 'Macedonia' and 'Macedonian' today when so recently they avoided them as the devil avoids church?" Peter Hill, professor of Slavonic studies at the University of Hamburg in Germany, makes a similar point:

                              Funnily enough, northern Greece was for many years called just that, "Northern Greece"... and the name Macedonia was considered somehow suspect.... But three years ago that all changed. Now that name, Macedonia, is at the heart of it dispute that has paralyzed the foreign policy of the European Community and brought thousands of people on to the streets of Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Brussels."



                              Regarding your post #5(What I see is that our views differ. That our understanding of history differs.)

                              would like to add this also from Shea regarding the way Greeks operate. And and more acuratley to your comment, why Greek veiws differ from reality

                              "
                              Second, I have tried to present ideas that can be critically examined. I have tried to avoid insupportable claims, and have cited the sources from which I have drawn my conclusions. It seems reasonable to me to read the views of people who are experts in the field, and to adjust my own conclusions on the basis of some aggregation of what they have said. You might think that this matter could be dealt with quite simply by referring to such historical experts. But one of the problems is that the Greek "experts" often do not agree with the "experts" from other parts of the world. Not surprisingly, the Greek experts almost invariably take a nationalistic line. The ancient Greeks are said to have been imbued with a "mythic imagination." They tended to interpret historical events in the light of their understanding of the role of supernatural powers in their lives, and of course they were often inclined to present stories that showed Greeks in the best possible light. What could be more natural? It is hardly surprising that writers throughout the world do exactly the same kind of thing these days. Bulgarians and Serbians tend to favor views that support their own nations' historical perspectives about Macedonia. Sometimes, though, Greek writers have gone to such extremes that other historians have actually ridiculed their conclusions. I will give some examples later on. Thus it is necessary to tread very carefully amongst the expert opinions. For this reason when discussing historical issues I have tended to give preference to writers from Britain, France, Germany, and the United States. When dealing with contemporary matters I have given much greater emphasis to news sources and interpretations from within Macedonia. Generally these are about uncontroversial matters of recorded fact."
                              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                              Comment

                              • MacedonianHellene
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2009
                                • 10

                                #75
                                Originally posted by George S. View Post
                                Macedonia was not a state of Greece you don't know your history back to school with you & some castor oil.Macedonia was specfically excluded from participating in the trojan war hundreds of years before alexander the great.You had to be Greek to participate in the Trojan WArWhy because Macedonia was not Greek.Macedonia was a kingdom with a king.Where as Macedonia was not a city STate like the Greeks were Get your facts rightQuestion Why was Aristotle banished from Greece????


                                Aristotle was banished because he wasn't Greek,what was he he was a Macedonian!!
                                Honestly where do you get this facts?
                                Have you been to University? Have you even finished school?

                                Socrates drank the Konio, and Aristotle had a school in Athens,
                                in case you didn't know.

                                Why don't you quote Alexanders speech after the battle of Chaeronia,
                                over the dead soldiers.
                                In its entirety, and with historical background, and not secluded quotes omitted from a paragraph, or a book.

                                Now are we going to go back and forth reciting historical events to each other, (its not going to end anywhere so its useless)

                                Or wiill we find a solution to the problem that keeps us divided?

                                How do we separate Greek Macedonians, from you Macedonians?

                                What do you think should be a good step forward towards a solution?

                                Please, leave your ville and aggressive talk, and leave history to the academics.

                                Lets start again.

                                The Macedonian wine is waiting to be drunk by us you know..

                                Comment

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