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Old 04-23-2011, 04:22 PM   #11
Onur
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EU is dying. If you cant see this happening, then you should be blind.

The project of single constitution for all EU states failed miserably cuz it`s rejected in most of EU members.

Their biggest project, common currency of Euro is in big crises and the single currency became a source of all problems instead of an achievement because these states are not united at all, all of them has their own rules and differences. For example, what are the common points in terms of economy and sociology between a German and a Greek or a Romanian?? Nothing at all!!! They live in a totally different world.

Now we saw the death of visa free regime this week. France considers suspending Schengen system.

Anti-EU political parties are on the rise in most of EU states, even in the ideological leader of EU, in France. Le Pen`s party is leading the polls in France and if they become ruling party, then you can be sure that it will be the day when EU project would totally collapse.


Besides that, Currency Trader`s numbers and examples of economical growth of new member states is not valid anymore. Those are things of the past. Despite all that EU propaganda, more and more people started to realize that this unity is fake and ordinary German, British, French people doesn't wanna pay even one cent to Greece, Romania, Bulgaria or to Macedonia.

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Old 04-23-2011, 11:34 PM   #12
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Onur said:

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EU is dying. If you cant see this happening, then you should be blind.
I would disagree – Every country or union has its own issues to deal with. This is nothing new and Rome was not built overnight if that is what you believe. A union of such magnitude will take time to optimize or develop , in- particular the enforcement of rules and regulations as stipulated.


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Onur said:

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The project of single constitution for all EU states failed miserably cuz it`s rejected in most of EU members.
Constitutions are rarely written to be perfect for all inhabitants or members – fine tuning is usually a progress regardless if it’s in EU or anywhere else - Nonetheless, can you please share your definition of “most EU members” have rejected the economic union - Which are these most EU members?


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Onur said:

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Their biggest project, common currency of Euro is in big crises
Quantify the definition of “Euro currency is in big crises” ?



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Onur said:

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the single currency became a source of all problems instead of an achievement because these states are not united at all, all of them has their own rules and differences. For example, what are the common points in terms of economy and sociology between a German and a Greek or a Romanian?? Nothing at all!!!

Give example of how the single currency became a source of “all problems”?

Secondly, you don’t have to use the single currency to be in EU, if that is perceived as an obstacle.

Moreover, having the right to set your own fiscal policy does not mean states are not united, if that’s what you suggest – Although, rules on fiscal discipline is something that needs to be further enhanced and enforced. As for common points between Germany, Greece and Romania, they share the vision and common goal to develop a union.


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Onur said:

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Now we saw the death of visa free regime this week. France considers suspending Schengen system.
This has more to do with politics, just like in any other country.


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Onur said:

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Anti-EU political parties are on the rise in most of EU states, even in the ideological leader of EU, in France. Le Pen`s party is leading the polls in France and if they become ruling party, then you can be sure that it will be the day when EU project would totally collapse.
Again, politics – Opposition parties in politics have always existed, nothing new of any sort.


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Onur said:

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Besides that, Currency Trader`s numbers and examples of economical growth of new member states is not valid anymore. Those are things of the past.

Past performance is not indicative of future performance - that goes for any country, company or Turkish football team.


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Onur said:

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Despite all that EU propaganda, more and more people started to realize that this unity is fake and ordinary German, British, French people doesn't wanna pay even one cent to Greece, Romania, Bulgaria or to Macedonia.
The unity of having a single currency is not fake, its real – Members are free to choose if they wish to be in the union - Not sure how you see it as “fake” – As for member states or ordinary people not wanting to pay one cent to Greece or other southern European countries, I can understand that. However, as with any country or union that aims to develop the future, differences will have to be ironed out and it takes time. New regulations on future bail-outs are setting strict conditions on fiscal discipline, a measure that it likely to lessen each country’s independence due to its fiscal mismanagement.



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Old 04-24-2011, 12:50 AM   #13
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Indigen said/posted

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The costs of accession are bound to be crippling: Macedonia’s sheltered and inefficient industries will crumble in the face of European competition; its judiciary and legislature will be buried under the 84,000 pages of the acquis communautaire; environmental, sanitation, and labour rules will render the private sector, such as it is in this benighted place, all but dysfunctional and insolvent; brain drain will likely reach epic proportions. Macedonia is not ready for EU accession. For the time being, it is better off as it is.
Whoever wrote the above passage has missed one big point in all this. Before you can even become a member, the country will have to show some significant readiness and transformation which will be closely inspected that it can handle all or most areas as required. That means each candidate will have to demonstrate that it can absorb or handle 84,000 pages of acquis communautaire, environmental, sanitation or labour rules per EU. This process is lengthy and can take years, if not a full decade before the country is close to become a member. If all goes as it goes now, Macedonia will probably score well on these areas.

As for the argument that Macedonia’s industries will crumble in the face of European competition, which industries is the author talking about? Is the author suggesting that foreign competition will establish production inside Macedonia and thus knock-out domestic industries? Or is the author suggesting something else? Can you take his seat to answer these questions?

How did Bulgarian, Romanian, Slovenian, Greek industries handle European competition?

The above passage does not prove that Macedonia will not benefit economically from EU.


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Old 04-24-2011, 03:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Currency Trader View Post

How did Bulgarian, Romanian, Slovenian, Greek industries handle European competition?

The above passage does not prove that Macedonia will not benefit economically from EU.


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Im not sure if the greek example is a good one...what greek industry is there, apart from tourism, are there any other significant greek industries that aren't already heavily subsidised by the greek government to keep afloat...?

the greek economy is a basket case of biblical proportions and they've been in the EEC/EU for close to 3 decades...

Sure the EU will bring some immediate benefits, possibly improvements to some infrastructure projects, new signage around the place and some pretty new flags waving in the wind...

As for your other 3 examples, the Bulgaria's, Romania's and Slovenia's of the 'Union', I don't believe that they've been in the club for long enough to feel the full power of the Union in undermining local industry and living standards...
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:53 PM   #15
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Most, countries wish they could turn back the hand of time and never joined and now they're in the red forever. EU, has no chance!
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Old 04-24-2011, 02:02 PM   #16
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CT you forget macedonia is a small country In the scheme of things just a piddly one .Macedonia has got hardly anything to offer except it's hoping to get handouts from the eu.CT you are just putting a positive spin on it & you are unwilling to see the other side of the coin of what could membership of eu could or could not mean.I do mean unwilling.So ct whats the point of arguing over something that may not even happen.Even if it did happen its not going to matter much.MK is right a lot of countries are questioning why they ever joined the eu.You are just ignoring plain facts that are obvious chinks in the eu.It's not as rosy as you make it out to be.Macedonia should stay put & it can create it's own prosperity for itself it doesn't need to be in a sham organization such as the eu.
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Old 04-24-2011, 02:15 PM   #17
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Costs of Joining the EURO
Cost of replacing currency’s and adjusting machines, however this is a one off cost
Loss of autonomy over economic policy. With the ECB setting a common interest rate for the whole area, countries have lost an important part of their Monetary policy
This is a major problem if a countries economy is at a different stage in the business cycle. For instance in 2005, Ireland and Spain were growing quite fast and need higher interest rates to control inflation than other countries who need lower interest rates. Therefore with low interest rate Ireland might experience inflation
On the other hand, in 2009, Ireland and Spain were experiencing a deeper recession than the rest of the Eurozone area. They needed lower interest rates and depreciation, but, other countries didn't.
In 1992 the UK benefited from leaving the ERM in order to have lower interest rates and come out of recession. This showed that countries economies may not have converged and a single policy could be harmful
Loss of Devaluation as economic management policy. As well as losing an independent Monetary policy countries cannot use their exchange rate. Business would argue Sterling is overvalued at the moment if we joined the Euro at this rate our exports would be uncompetitive
Also govts couldn’t devalue the E.R to overcome balance of payments problems.
Countries will lose some independence over Fiscal Policy. This is because of the growth and stability pact.( e.g. no country is allowed to borrow more than 3% of its GDP. This means that they will have to try and maintain the economy at a similar stage to other countries. E.G. Ireland had high growth and was criticised for increasing spending, (which increases AD).
Asymmetric Shocks. If one country experienced an external shock it might need a different response. But this is not possible with a common currency. E.g. German reunification required higher interest rates in order to help reduce inflation but this was not good for many other countries.
An oil shock would affect net importers like France more than Norway and the UK who export a lot.
Monetary Policy will have different effects in different countries. For example the UK is sensitive to changes in the interest rate because many people have mortgages.
The EURO has been quite unstable against the dollar, whilst Sterling has been quite stable. Joining the EURO could therefore increase E.R. instability against over currencies
The ECB is less transparent in their decision making, for example they do not produce monthly minutes, this makes interest rate changes less predictable
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:16 PM   #18
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CT, has been a huge supporter of the EU on every Macedonian forum to the point it seems he could gain personally through investments.

Facts, don't lie the EU is a HUGE mistake by any country let alone a tiny 2,000,000.
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Old 04-30-2011, 05:03 AM   #19
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Phoenix said:

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Im not sure if the greek example is a good one...what greek industry is there, apart from tourism, are there any other significant greek industries that aren't already heavily subsidised by the greek government to keep afloat...?

Which industries do you have in-mind that is heavily subsidized?
Not sure if their transport, shipping, chemicals, metal products or mining businesses are heavily subsidized.



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Phoenix said:

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As for your other 3 examples, the Bulgaria's, Romania's and Slovenia's of the 'Union', I don't believe that they've been in the club for long enough to feel the full power of the Union in undermining local industry and living standards...
Slovenia has been in the union since 2004 while Bulgaria and Romania since 2007 – The power of the union to “undermine” locals industry and living standards, as you refer to, may vary depending on how the country handles its integration and how prepared they have been. Some countries may experience immediate shocks to their system, while others are gradually adapting EU standards of competitiveness. Slovenia is said to be one of these countries that have made a smooth transition.

Countries in the union whose industries are being undermined from sources inside the union, are likely less sufficient and competitive. As each of these countries become more open it puts more pressure on domestic enterprises to cope with competition. The EU union may not be any different from the issue of “globalized economy” that developed during the 90’s. Inefficient countries will have to rethink their economies and state structures.





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Old 04-30-2011, 05:07 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Makedonska_Kafana View Post
Most, countries wish they could turn back the hand of time and never joined and now they're in the red forever. EU, has no chance!
Which countries have wished they could turned back the hand of time and never join the unioin?



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