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Old 02-09-2011, 07:28 PM   #1
Vangelovski
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Default John Melville-Jones...again.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11595

Last October I gave a talk in Melbourne in which I stated that the proposed erection of a large and expensive statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje was not only an inappropriate expenditure for a country that did not claim to be rich, but was also at attempt to justify an invented historical relationship.

Since that time I have received a number of messages, some of them thoughtful, others merely abusive. The thing that they have in common is that they do not address the question that I raised. Let us look at the facts.

The earliest history of the ancient Macedonians is not clearly understood, but the tribe called the Makedónes seem to have established themselves in an area which is sometimes called Pieria, around Aigai and Edessa, by the eighth century B.C. They pushed out or absorbed other groups who had settled around them. Over the next two centuries they expanded their territory, and although they still had a number of separate tribes, a firm succession of kings was established, and this made them stronger than other more divided groups. Some of the names of early kings that we have may be legendary, but with Perdikkas I (7th century) we seem to be on firmer ground. The territory under the control of the Makedónes continued to expand, and by the beginning of the 5th century one of their kings, Alexander I, had begun to issue coins with his own name written on them in Greek.

Several passages that survive in Greek authors of the fifth and fourth centuries suggest that the Macedonians were regarded by the southern Greeks as ‘different’. This is not surprising, since they had arrived on the scene later than the groups that had entered the peninsula during the Bronze Age and moved southward, but it is clear that they were, although perhaps grudgingly, accepted as being Hellenes. The situation is less clear with regard to their neighbours on the north, in an area that cannot be exactly defined, but is approximately equivalent to the territory of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. These were called the Paionians, and there were conflicts as they tried to expand into Macedonian territory. At the accession of Philip II to the throne of Macedonia the Paionians joined the Illyrians in an attempt to take advantage of the inexperience of the new king, but Philip drove them back, defeating them on more than one occasion.

The Paionians were defeated, but their territory did not become a part of Macedonia. This is shown by the fact that the Paionian kings began issuing coins bearing their own names (written in Greek of course) during the reign of Philip II, and when Alexander started making his conquests, they provided a separate contingent of cavalry in his army. They remained separate from Macedonia until the Roman conquest, as their issuing of coinage, first in the name of their kings, and finally in the name of the Paionians themselves in the early second century B.C., shows. Then, for administrative purposes, a large Roman province called ‘Macedonia’ was created, which included them, and large areas of land to the south and west, far beyond the borders of the original Macedonia.

So the area now controlled by Skopje was not in the fourth century B.C. or for many centuries after that a part of Macedonia (except perhaps for a very narrow strip along its southern border), and the erection of a statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje cannot be justified, because it is based on a distortion of history by a people who, I am sorry to say, are having a false identity created for them.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:06 PM   #2
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Vangelovski
If I had the resources I would check every dollar he has earnt and track it back to it's sources - you don't have to be Einstien to work out where I think a lot of it may have come from!
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11595

Last October I gave a talk in Melbourne in which I stated that the proposed erection of a large and expensive statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje was not only an inappropriate expenditure for a country that did not claim to be rich, but was also at attempt to justify an invented historical relationship.

Since that time I have received a number of messages, some of them thoughtful, others merely abusive. The thing that they have in common is that they do not address the question that I raised. Let us look at the facts.

The earliest history of the ancient Macedonians is not clearly understood, but the tribe called the Makedónes seem to have established themselves in an area which is sometimes called Pieria, around Aigai and Edessa, by the eighth century B.C. They pushed out or absorbed other groups who had settled around them. Over the next two centuries they expanded their territory, and although they still had a number of separate tribes, a firm succession of kings was established, and this made them stronger than other more divided groups. Some of the names of early kings that we have may be legendary, but with Perdikkas I (7th century) we seem to be on firmer ground. The territory under the control of the Makedónes continued to expand, and by the beginning of the 5th century one of their kings, Alexander I, had begun to issue coins with his own name written on them in Greek.

Several passages that survive in Greek authors of the fifth and fourth centuries suggest that the Macedonians were regarded by the southern Greeks as ‘different’. This is not surprising, since they had arrived on the scene later than the groups that had entered the peninsula during the Bronze Age and moved southward, but it is clear that they were, although perhaps grudgingly, accepted as being Hellenes. The situation is less clear with regard to their neighbours on the north, in an area that cannot be exactly defined, but is approximately equivalent to the territory of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. These were called the Paionians, and there were conflicts as they tried to expand into Macedonian territory. At the accession of Philip II to the throne of Macedonia the Paionians joined the Illyrians in an attempt to take advantage of the inexperience of the new king, but Philip drove them back, defeating them on more than one occasion.

The Paionians were defeated, but their territory did not become a part of Macedonia. This is shown by the fact that the Paionian kings began issuing coins bearing their own names (written in Greek of course) during the reign of Philip II, and when Alexander started making his conquests, they provided a separate contingent of cavalry in his army. They remained separate from Macedonia until the Roman conquest, as their issuing of coinage, first in the name of their kings, and finally in the name of the Paionians themselves in the early second century B.C., shows. Then, for administrative purposes, a large Roman province called ‘Macedonia’ was created, which included them, and large areas of land to the south and west, far beyond the borders of the original Macedonia.

So the area now controlled by Skopje was not in the fourth century B.C. or for many centuries after that a part of Macedonia (except perhaps for a very narrow strip along its southern border), and the erection of a statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje cannot be justified, because it is based on a distortion of history by a people who, I am sorry to say, are having a false identity created for them.
IMHO, MTO members should NEVER post anti-Macedonian (DRIVEL) propaganda without commenting on it (even if it is just a line or two) and should always consider what purpose it would serve if and when they do post it. Thus I disapprove of this post by Vangelovski because there is no comment at all.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:38 PM   #4
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Indigen,

The purpose of posting the anti-Macedonian drivel was in the hope that it would alert someone competent with the time and inclination to respond to it. Ancient history is not my field, otherwise I would have done it myself. But you're right, such garbage should not be posted lightly and without explanation for the casual reader.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Indigen,

The purpose of posting the anti-Macedonian drivel was in the hope that it would alert someone competent with the time and inclination to respond to it. Ancient history is not my field, otherwise I would have done it myself. But you're right, such garbage should not be posted lightly and without explanation for the casual reader.
Vangelovski, I figure you for one of the sharpest Macedonian political minds on MTO (and wider amongst Macedonian activists) and as you posses excellent (written) communication skills, it would not have gone amiss to just add a line or two outlining the purpose of the post.

Secondly, IMO, every Macedonian activist worth his salt should be able to articulate and defend the Macedonian Cause historically and politically in a general sense against any and ALL detractors and political enemies and I am sure you (and many others) can too!

So pochit,
I.

PS: I guess you may just be too tired from certain family obligations you acquired recently (?).
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:08 AM   #6
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UMD have a lot of their merry men in Perth, nothing from them about trying to stop this?

I think now that this academic has entered the public arena via sites like american chronicle to spew his racist crap, it would be great to see some one like Andrew Rossos or that Gendato fellow enter and rebuttal the nonsense coming from Melville-Jones...

As i said in a previous post it shits me when people say only a "small strip" of land from rep of macedonia was in alexanders empire - it is a grk lie. I would love to see andrew rossos or even MTO expose this clown of his historical errors with the information and maps we have.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigen View Post
Vangelovski, I figure you for one of the sharpest Macedonian political minds on MTO (and wider amongst Macedonian activists) and as you posses excellent (written) communication skills, it would not have gone amiss to just add a line or two outlining the purpose of the post.

Secondly, IMO, every Macedonian activist worth his salt should be able to articulate and defend the Macedonian Cause historically and politically in a general sense against any and ALL detractors and political enemies and I am sure you (and many others) can too!

So pochit,
I.

PS: I guess you may just be too tired from certain family obligations you acquired recently (?).
Doing so in a general sense is one thing, but I've found that one can quickly become unstuck when a debate gets into the finer details and they don't have the necessary depth of experience and knowledge.

But yes, I'm awake for many more hours of the day lately
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Old 02-10-2011, 05:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Doing so in a general sense is one thing, but I've found that one can quickly become unstuck when a debate gets into the finer details and they don't have the necessary depth of experience and knowledge.
Be that as it may, I post the following article by "Gandeto" that was an effective response to Miller and his anti-Macedonian accomplices for his (their) earlier dirty deed/s:

Gandeto

August 21, 2009


One of the steps in the Scientific Method of Investigation is the publication of your obtained results. This is done, so that others by repeating the same experiment using same methodology may independently arrive to the same conclusion and verify whether it is true what you have accomplished with your own hypothesis. Once many independent laboratories—through their scientific research—confirm your results, then, the hypothesis that you have proposed becomes accepted and your findings acknowledged.

I have said before, and I stand by my assertions that: (a) Macedonia was never a part of any ancient Greek city-state, nor were the ancient Macedonians ever considered by the ancient Greeks or by themselves, to be Greek. (b) Macedonia was never a member of any Hellenic League. Macedonia was not a member of the Greek Amphictyonic League either. Fact is that membership into these leagues was reserved for Hellenes only. And since Macedonians were not considered Hellenes, they were not admitted into these leagues. There is no record of either side voicing displeasure regarding this rule. And (c) in antiquity people knew that the boundary between Macedonia and Greece was the river Peneus and mount Olympus; to the south were the Greek tribes and to the north was Macedonia.

I challenge all of you lecturers of history, including Professor Stephan Miller and his like-minded historians, to dispute my assertions and prove me wrong. When you claim or support a claim that "Macedonia was always Greek", it is incumbent upon you—academic standards compel—to find at least one shred of evidence from the ancient chroniclers and bring it forward. Find other authors from antiquity who will agree with your own assertion. And please, instead of shielding yourself with ambiguous interpretations from the 18th and the 19th century philhellenic writers, convince the readers with valid, persuasive arguments. Bring to the table solid, irrefutable evidence from the ancient Greeks themselves or their contemporary Greek or Roman biographers and chroniclers.

I will go on the limb and reiterate my opinion regarding the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians: Anyone who claims that ancient Macedonia was a Greek land and that ancient Macedonians were Greeks or that Macedonians are stealing Greek heritage, is nothing less and nothing more than a corrupt, deceitful fabricator of history whose (scientific) thinking—devoid of substance—is based on personal beliefs and mythical constructs.

Facts are not derived from beliefs or mythology. Scientific knowledge does not rest on feelings, nor is it supported by bad-time stories and mythology. Science needs concrete, verifiable evidence.

I can safely state that I stand on the shoulders of others;

I stand convinced that

(1) you will be unable to prove Strabo, Scylax, Dichaerchus, Scymnus, and Dionysius wrong. These biographers have stated that Greece commences at the Ambracian Gulf, and terminates at the river Peneus.

I am convinced that

(2) you will be unable to prove Aeschines, Theopompus and Pausanias wrong, for not including Macedonia on their lists of the Amphictyonic people of Greece.

I stand convinced that

(3) you will have no answer as to why Thucydides found no room for Macedonia on his list of states on either side of the warring parties in the Peloponnesian War. Macedonia is found neither on the Athenian, nor on the Lacedaemonian side.

These are hard facts that cannot be dismissed with lame excuses and manipulation of text. One cannot disregard evidence of this magnitude and bring forward a pitiful assertion like ´Macedonians spread Hellenic culture in the East´, instead. One cannot substitute and equate the words of a king (Philip V) "My ancestors Philip II and Alexander the Great conquered Greece", with "but Macedonians had same names as Greeks", nonsense.

You can saturate the media with slogans and cry "thieves" as long as you want, but you will be unable to subvert and change the evidence left from the ancient authors. Fact is that you have bought some professors to put their whimsical shoulder on your "Greek" wheel, but fact is also that you are stuck in the mud of lies up to your knees and cannot move.

The following piece of evidence reaffirms my position and demonstrates, once again, that truth is not a manipulative currency and cannot be suppressed for long. The following passages were taken from the Canadian Macedonian Historical Society Review written by Alexander Nitsis:

"As one of the powers which had guaranteed the independence of the Greek Kingdom in 1828, Great Britain held the position that the Greek claims to extension of their territories were greater (as of 1880) than the boundaries which the Greek city-states held in antiquity. This position was brought forward by Major J.C. Ardagh, (later became Sir Major-General). He was part of the British delegation that was attached to the Special Embassy during the Congress at Berlin on June 3rd, 1878. He was also appointed as her Majesty´s Commissioner for the delineation of the frontier of Bulgaria (September 7th, 1878); and was employed during the conference at Constantinople in 1881. Sir J.C. Ardagh was born on August 9, 1840, and died on September 30th, 1907.

Before the Conference at Constantinople, Major Ardagh communicated with the British Foreign Office on the issue of the new Greek frontier with his "Memorandum on the Ancient Boundaries of Greece", which was received at the Foreign Office on February 24th, 1881. The information which Major Ardagh presented in his memorandum (quoting sources from antiquity) reaffirms claims made by Macedonians today that, Macedonia was never part of any Greek (Hellenic) state during ancient times. If ancient Greek sources did not see Macedonia as part of the "Ancient Greek World", how can the modern Greek state see Macedonia and its people as Greek?

What Major Ardagh´s memorandum does raise is questions not only to the issue of the true Greek frontier, but also to the true identity of the people of Macedonia. Since 1913, the end of the Second Balkan War when Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia and Montenegro divided up Macedonia amongst themselves, Greece has been claiming that Macedonia was always Greek. Major Ardagh discredits this claims by quoting ancient Greeks themselves and shows that not only was Macedonia not Greek or part of ancient Greece and neither was Epirus or Thessaly.

Doc. 41 Memorandum on the Ancient Boundaries of Greece

By Major J.C. Ardagh, C.B., R.E. – (Received at the Foreign Office,


February 24th, 1881.)

The Ancient Boundaries of Greece

As the claims of the Greeks to an extension of territories are in some degree based upon the limits of the ancient Greece, I conceived that an examination of the early Greek geographers would throw some light upon them, and I have been able to procure, and annex extracts from them in Greek with translations.

Strabo, Scylax, Dichaerchus, Scymnus, and Dionysius all concur in making Greece commence at the Ambracian Gulf, and terminate at the river Peneus.

The catalogue of the ships in the Iliad, the various lists of the Amphictyonic tribes, the states engaged in the Peloponnesian war, the travels of Anacharsis , the description of Greece by Pausanias, and the natural history of Pliny—all give proof of the same fact, by positive or negative evidence; nor have I found anywhere a suggestion that Epirus was Greek, except that Dodona, the great oracle, though situated amid barbarians, was a Greek institution, and the legend that the Molossian Kings were of the house of Aeacidae. When Epirus first became powerful, 280 B.C., Greece had long been under the complete ascendency of the Macedonians, and after the fall of the Empire at the battle of Pydna, 168 B.C., it became a Roman province in 148 B.C. The establishment of Greek independence in 1832 was exactly 2,000 years after the battle of Pydna.

Strabo:

(1) The tribes extending beyond the Ambracian Gulf to the eastward, and contiguous with the Peloponnesus, are Greek.

(2) The tribes from the Strymon to the Pontic passes and Haemus are all Thracian, except on the coast which is inhabited by Greeks.

(3) On the right of the entrance (of the Ambracian Gulf) dwell the Acarnanians, a Greek tribe. On the left is Nicopolis and the Kassopaeans, an Epirote tribe.

(4) The Peneus divides Lower and Maritime Macedonia from Thessaly and Magnesia, and Haliacmon Upper Macedonia.

(5) But the Peneus bounds Macedonia towards the north, and Thessaly towards the south.

Scylax: Periplus:--

(1) From Ambracia Greece is continuous (along the coast) as far as the river Peneus.

(2) Up to this point (the country of the Magnesians) Greece is continuous from Ambracia.

Dicaearchus:

(1) I therefore draw the limits of Hellas at the country of the Magnesians, i.e., to the Vale of Tempe.

Scymnus:

(1) Obove Tempe towards Olympus is the region of the Macedonians. (The writer describes the Thesprotians, Chaonians, Molossians and the inhabitants of the interior of Epirus, as barbarian. 430-460.)

(2) Greece is continuous from Ambracia to the Peneus.

Homer:

In the catalogue of the ships in the second book of the Iliad, Acarnania, Aetolia and Thessaly are the most northern districts mentioned. The others are Boetia, Phocis, Locris, Euboea, Athens, Salamis, Argos, Mycinae, Laconia, Messenia, Arcadia, Crete, Rhodes, and Isles.

The amphictyonic people. The names are given by Aeschines, Theopompus and Pausanias:

Aeschines: Thessalians, Boeotians, Dorians, Perrhaebeans, Magnetes, Locrians, Aeteans, Phthiotes, Maleans, Phocians.

Theopmpus: Ionians, Dorians, Perrhaebeans, Magnetes, Achaeans, Maleans, Dolopes, Aeneans, Delphians, Phocians, Phthiotes

Pausanias: Ionians, Diopes, Thessalians, Magnetes, Maleans, Phthiotes, Dorians,

Of these, none belong to Epirus; indeed there are neither Aetolians nor Acarnanians.

Thermopylae:

The next catalogue which throws light on the subject is that of forces under the command of Leonidas at Thermopylae.

They are enumerated by Herodotus, Pausanias, and Deodorus as follows:

Peloponnesians, Thespians, Thebans, Phocians, and Locrians (or Milesians).

Forming in fact, something less than the present limits of Greece.

Thucydides:

In book II of the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides gives a catalogue of the states ranged on either side as follows:

With the Lacedaemonians: All the Peloponnesians except the Argives and Achaeans, the Megareans, Locrians, Boeotians, Phocians, Ambraciots, Leucadians, and Anactoreans

With the Athenians: Chians, Lesbians, Plataeans, Messenians of Neopactus, most of the Acarnanians, the Corcyraeans, Zacynthians, with certain islands and colonies.

Anacharsis: Travels in Greece, 357 B.C. There are 14 other nations in Epirus.

Pausanias does not even mention Epirus

Pliny: Natural History, book IV: He places mount Olympus in Thessaly, but does not precisely define the boundary of Macedonia, which he describes as extending to the Adriatic."

With this illustration by Ardagh, the Greek cries of "Macedonia is Greece", is shown once again to be nothing more than a fabrication. The ancient boundaries of Greece do not coincide with the modern Greek borders. These ancient frontiers of Greece are the basis which the present Greek state is using for the claims on Macedonia.

This is certainly another piece of evidence that reaffirms the inadmissibility of the Greeks´ claims that "Macedonia was always Greek". Time and again, this blatant lie is being exposed for what it really represents—a flagrant and shamelessly executed subversion of historical truth—heist of unparallel historical proportions never before seen in the history of mankind. What is so arrogantly flaunted as Greek heritage is nothing but a stolen property from the Macedonians. Between these rampant Greek lies and deceptions and the silence of the European academicians, who, certainly, know the truth, runs the menacing current of the biased and the hypocritical attitude of Europe itself. Human rights issues in Greece are of paramount importance and Europe remains silent.

By not addressing these obvious violations of its own constitution, Europe undermines its own reputation. By not attending to these flames of hatred and racism exhibited by the Greek government, Europe diminishes its own stature and weakens its own institutions.

Europe must find courage to tell Greece, simply to "grow up", as said by former US Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger in the interview for the Macedonian Television. And in the words of the former German ambassador to the Republic of Macedonia, Hans Lothar Schteppan, Europe must recognize that "Greece's strong objection to the name was laid on a foundation of lies".

Until next time…
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/115377

For fair use only.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
The territory under the control of the Makedónes continued to expand, and by the beginning of the 5th century one of their kings, Alexander I, had begun to issue coins with his own name written on them in Greek.
Thracians, Illyrians and Paeonians also used Greek inscriptions on coins, so that is a dead argument.
Quote:
Several passages that survive in Greek authors of the fifth and fourth centuries suggest that the Macedonians were regarded by the southern Greeks as ‘different’.
An interesting and deliberate application of ambiguity. Comments from ancient Greeks about Macedonians and/or their kings range from "barbarians" (Thrasymachus), "not related to the Greeks" (Demosthenes), and a "national" or "racial" rivalry between the two (Arrian). There are no references to Athenians, Spartans or Thebans as "national" or "racial" rivals against the collective Greeks, or as being "not related to the Greeks". Why did the writer of the article omit these details?
Quote:
This is not surprising, since they had arrived on the scene later than the groups that had entered the peninsula during the Bronze Age and moved southward.......
That implies that the ancestors of the Macedonians "arrived" in the Balkans after the Greeks, a wild assertion that cannot be corroborated. To suggest that all the Greeks managed to get to where they were, yet the Macedonians were somehow left behind but "arrived" later, is without foundation. Where were they prior to that point?
Quote:
........but it is clear that they were, although perhaps grudgingly, accepted as being Hellenes.
That sentence, without the required elaboration, remains a blatant lie.
Quote:
So the area now controlled by Skopje was not in the fourth century B.C. or for many centuries after that a part of Macedonia (except perhaps for a very narrow strip along its southern border).....
How could we forget that 'very narrow strip' which just so happens to include both Bitola and Ohrid, which were a part of the Macedonian kingdom? What about the fact that the places where the ancient Macedonian identity arose from is the same location where Macedonians in the Greek state have always been located?
Quote:
........the erection of a statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje cannot be justified, because it is based on a distortion of history by a people who, I am sorry to say, are having a false identity created for them.
Alexander was the king of a Macedonian state. Today, there is again a Macedonian state, and they wish to have a statue of Alexander in their capital. It's really quite simple.

Take for example the (real) origins of this individual named John Melville-Jones, who most likely has family that descends from England. Cannot his own reasoning be applied against him, with even greater validity, where it concerns the bronze statue of Boudica at Westminster Bridge? This statue is located in London, a city that her Iceni tribe did not arise from (they lived in Norfolk), and which had no Anglo-Germanic presence at all during that period. Yet, ironically, despite the fact that Boudica burned London to the ground, despite that fact that her Celtic people and their descendants later fought against Anglo-Germanic tribes (from whom Mr. Jones most probably descends from), her statue stands guard over the city!

Have you ever looked in the backyard of your own ancestors, Mr. Jones?

What I would like to know is why the vested interest by this foreigner who clearly has no clue about Macedonian history? He hasn't even made an effort to hear our side of the story.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11595

Last October I gave a talk in Melbourne in which I stated that the proposed erection of a large and expensive statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje was not only an inappropriate expenditure for a country that did not claim to be rich, but was also at attempt to justify an invented historical relationship.

Since that time I have received a number of messages, some of them thoughtful, others merely abusive. The thing that they have in common is that they do not address the question that I raised. Let us look at the facts.

The earliest history of the ancient Macedonians is not clearly understood, but the tribe called the Makedónes seem to have established themselves in an area which is sometimes called Pieria, around Aigai and Edessa, by the eighth century B.C. They pushed out or absorbed other groups who had settled around them. Over the next two centuries they expanded their territory, and although they still had a number of separate tribes, a firm succession of kings was established, and this made them stronger than other more divided groups. Some of the names of early kings that we have may be legendary, but with Perdikkas I (7th century) we seem to be on firmer ground. The territory under the control of the Makedónes continued to expand, and by the beginning of the 5th century one of their kings, Alexander I, had begun to issue coins with his own name written on them in Greek.

Several passages that survive in Greek authors of the fifth and fourth centuries suggest that the Macedonians were regarded by the southern Greeks as ‘different’. This is not surprising, since they had arrived on the scene later than the groups that had entered the peninsula during the Bronze Age and moved southward, but it is clear that they were, although perhaps grudgingly, accepted as being Hellenes. The situation is less clear with regard to their neighbours on the north, in an area that cannot be exactly defined, but is approximately equivalent to the territory of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. These were called the Paionians, and there were conflicts as they tried to expand into Macedonian territory. At the accession of Philip II to the throne of Macedonia the Paionians joined the Illyrians in an attempt to take advantage of the inexperience of the new king, but Philip drove them back, defeating them on more than one occasion.

The Paionians were defeated, but their territory did not become a part of Macedonia. This is shown by the fact that the Paionian kings began issuing coins bearing their own names (written in Greek of course) during the reign of Philip II, and when Alexander started making his conquests, they provided a separate contingent of cavalry in his army. They remained separate from Macedonia until the Roman conquest, as their issuing of coinage, first in the name of their kings, and finally in the name of the Paionians themselves in the early second century B.C., shows. Then, for administrative purposes, a large Roman province called ‘Macedonia’ was created, which included them, and large areas of land to the south and west, far beyond the borders of the original Macedonia.

So the area now controlled by Skopje was not in the fourth century B.C. or for many centuries after that a part of Macedonia (except perhaps for a very narrow strip along its southern border), and the erection of a statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje cannot be justified, because it is based on a distortion of history by a people who, I am sorry to say, are having a false identity created for them.
Who is this guys and has he got any brains whatsoever? Do people not feel embaressed to go on about something they haven't got s clue.

1) For the stastue I think it's none of your damn business, you should turn around and look at Greece and the Greek debt and maybe ask them why are they spending a fortune to push their propaganda against Macedonia rather than spend the money on their poor people. Aleksandar was my king and I shall celebrate him as one.
2) Macedonia today has been split MANY times, just because someone forcefully takes a part of you doesn't mean it's theirs and everything before that gets erased. What world do you live in? Where did the Macedonian kingdom reach to? Where did Macedonia reach to before the Greeks by force with murders and rapes took our part? Can you put one and one together?

3) The coin rubbish is stupid. Greek was widely spoken language in those days, were the Egyptian Greek as well. Actually the Greek stupidity can go so far so I won't be shocked if you said yes.

4) The anicent Greeks labeled the Macedonians as different not for any other reason but because they WERE different, which part is not clear for you?

Anyway I'd like to say this guy is just another addition to the brainwashed Greek people who will live and die blind.
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