John Melville-Jones...again.

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  • maco2envy
    Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 288

    #16
    I don't know what it is with these muppets whom have wasted their lives studying dead languages and cultures giving their two cents worth on a modern-day political issue they lack knowledge in, no.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #17
      I wrote to him. I'm not a Yugoslav Macedonian. These maggots push an agenda and it's a paid one. Don't doubt it for a second.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        #18
        We're extremists because our fundamental human rights are violated. I'd love to test that notion with this guy.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          #19
          Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
          If the hapless Melville-Jones is to be taken seriously by anyone and would like to be considered objective in this debate, surely he needs to apply the same degree of investigation into the process of 'identity creation' to his 'greek' friends as he does to the Macedonians...
          I second Phoenix's point here from a number of years ago. If he wishes to be seen as impartial he should apply the same degree of skepticism, scrutiny, and investigation into the process of creation ('invention') of modern Greek identity - indeed, same goes for any modern European people or nation.

          Comment

          • sydney
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 390

            #20
            Originally posted by maco2envy View Post
            I don't know what it is with these muppets whom have wasted their lives studying dead languages and cultures giving their two cents worth on a modern-day political issue they lack knowledge in, no.
            And herein lies the point. These academics have credibility at stake due to a position they’ve taken to assert facts and situations in their own works. It’s in their interest to defend this position otherwise life-long ‘expertise’ and relevance evaporates.

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              #21
              John Melville-Jones

              3 February 2019


              URL:
              As a professor (now an emeritus professor) of Classics and Ancient History at The University of Western Australia, I became involved in the Macedonian naming dispute about ten years ago, …


              OPINION: The myth of modern Macedonia

              As a professor (now an emeritus professor) of Classics and Ancient History at The University of Western Australia, I became involved in the Macedonian naming dispute about ten years ago, when I noticed that under then Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski a statue that seemed to be intended to represent Alexander the Great was to be erected in Skopje, and various other monuments were being given names that implied that what was then The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia was connected with the ancient Macedonia that existed in the 4th century B.C. I knew that this was incorrect, so I gave a little talk on the subject to a Greek audience, and created a small pamphlet entitled The Myth of Modern Macedonia to combat this presence.

              This was a personal initiative, because my university has no position with regard to this matter, and is interested only in avoiding disputes on campus (which have not happened) or the appearance of favouring either group. I have never agreed with the extremist Greek position, that the name of ‘Macedonia’ should never be used to describe the FYROM. It has been used to describe an enlarged Macedonia since the second century BC, so modification of the name of the modern country has always seemed to me to be the best solution. In my pamphlet I suggested that ‘North Macedonia’ might be an acceptable way of resolving the problem. I am very pleased that both governments have now accepted this name.

              The only thing with which I disagree in the text of the Prespes Agreement that I have studied is that the language of North Macedonia is to be called ‘Macedonian’.

              This can lead to confusion between the modern language and the ancient Macedonian dialect (although the latter is almost completely irrecoverable, because the ancient Macedonians hardly ever used writing, and all that we have is about a hundred and fifty words and names, some of them perhaps slightly misspelt in the manuscripts, that have been recorded in the Byzantine period). It is clear, however, that it was one of a number of slightly similar dialects that were spoken in the north of today’s Greece and to the north and west of it, before the Attic dialect became the basis of the koine language that spread over the eastern Mediterranean world after the conquests of Alexander the Great.

              I would have preferred that the North Macedonian language should be called ‘Modern Macedonian’ to make this distinction clear. If there is any chance of making this change, I hope that both sides can agree on it. However, what is much more important is that the Greeks and North Macedonians who have furiously resisted this change of name should now cease their complaints, and start working to make this agreement a success, because it will be beneficial for both countries. There is a lot of work to do, both in the short term and in the coming decades, and I estimate that it will take at least fifty years before things become fully settled. In the first place, many hours of work will be required in both countries to rework documents of many kinds and rename organisations in North Macedonia. Then there is the enormous task of editing teaching material in North Macedonia so that it does not give a false view of history.

              Finally, it will take more than one generation for the mistaken beliefs of the North Macedonians, beliefs on which for so many of them their identity is based, to be corrected and replaced by a more accurate understanding of their history.

              Comment

              • Phoenix
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 4671

                #22
                Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                [B]...I would have preferred that the North Macedonian language should be called ‘Modern Macedonian’ to make this distinction clear...
                Who cares what you prefer...motherfucker.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #23
                  Seriously, is he of Greek ancestry? He sounds retarded. What about modern Greek? That fabricated language that few people spoke 200 years ago that was finally codified and accepted in 1976.

                  And the world will believe him. Infuriating.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Seriously, is he of Greek ancestry? He sounds retarded. What about modern Greek? That fabricated language that few people spoke 200 years ago that was finally codified and accepted in 1976.

                    And the world will believe him. Infuriating.
                    He clearly has no idea of the ethnic make up of the modern Greek state...in which case he is a complete fraud...or he has merely swept the facts under the Turkish rug because he has found it more financially rewarding to do so...in which case he is a complete fraud.

                    Comment

                    • YuriB
                      Junior Member
                      • Jan 2019
                      • 54

                      #25
                      I think that Macedonians have the right of self-determination regardless of what happened (or we think happened) 2.5 thousand years ago.

                      The argument by ancient history, which was conveniently invented by the Greek state in the early nineties, is fallacious in its core. Cultures, languages and peoples evolve over time: sometimes we complain how different the previous or next generation is in comparison to ours, let alone scaling this out to hundreds of generations!
                      Regards,
                      A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15658

                        #26
                        Originally posted by YuriB View Post
                        I think that Macedonians have the right of self-determination regardless of what happened (or we think happened) 2.5 thousand years ago.

                        The argument by ancient history, which was conveniently invented by the Greek state in the early nineties, is fallacious in its core. Cultures, languages and peoples evolve over time: sometimes we complain how different the previous or next generation is in comparison to ours, let alone scaling this out to hundreds of generations!
                        Totally agree.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          #27
                          Its nothing more than propaganda draped in an academic title.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                            Its nothing more than propaganda draped in an academic title.
                            A little more expensive, but quite useful in some situations. Given the Greeks spent hundreds of millions on this, there is no need to stop now I guess.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • maco2envy
                              Member
                              • Jan 2015
                              • 288

                              #29
                              Because what apparently happened 2000+ years ago, should have an influence on modern-day politics.

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