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View Poll Results: Feel Macedonia is culturally Mediterranean or Slavic?
Mediterranean 2 66.67%
Slavic 1 33.33%
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:44 PM   #11
Risto the Great
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Nushevski, one of my closest friends comes from a family of Grkomani. He changed his name much to the disappointment of his family. His relatives regarded him as a rebel and and tried to reduce their interaction with him.

20 years later, even the strongest of his Grkomani relatives are now asking him about Macedonia and are devastated at the erosion of "their" common identity.

I changed my Greek slave name at 18 years of age. My family followed soon thereafter. It was if I lifted a load off my shoulders and I claimed some dignity back.

You are at the beginning of your journey. You have an opportunity to light the path for your confused relatives. As they become older they will suffer from their own existential crises. The only thing they will ever be sure about is their commonality as Macedonians.

Change your name and unshackle yourself.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicsinad View Post
I understand how it can be. You're welcome to talk to me any time you want. Just send me a message, I'll make time to listen.
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Nushevski, one of my closest friends comes from a family of Grkomani. He changed his name much to the disappointment of his family. His relatives regarded him as a rebel and and tried to reduce their interaction with him.

20 years later, even the strongest of his Grkomani relatives are now asking him about Macedonia and are devastated at the erosion of "their" common identity.

I changed my Greek slave name at 18 years of age. My family followed soon thereafter. It was if I lifted a load off my shoulders and I claimed some dignity back.

You are at the beginning of your journey. You have an opportunity to light the path for your confused relatives. As they become older they will suffer from their own existential crises. The only thing they will ever be sure about is their commonality as Macedonians.

Change your name and unshackle yourself.
thanks for the replies vicsinad and risto, it means a lot.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I changed my Greek slave name at 18 years of age. My family followed soon thereafter. It was if I lifted a load off my shoulders and I claimed some dignity back.
Risto, I'm so sorry we treated you and your family so bad.. I strongly believe that we would have been a much better place had we embraced our Macedonian compatriots.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:11 PM   #14
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Risto, I'm so sorry we treated you and your family so bad.. I strongly believe that we would have been a much better place had we embraced our Macedonian compatriots.
Thank you YuriB. I have said it before, if Greece played the game differently, Macedonians could have been the best and fiercest of Greeks. By differently, I mean by acknowledging the differences in language and culture and yet embracing/including them as part of the modern Greek culture (which could have used commonality in religion). Sure it sounds strange to hear a proud Macedonian say this, but we are talking about an era long gone now. Perhaps around the time the modern Greek nation was formed until about when the Abecedar was introduced.

Greece is still a multi ethnic State and still suffers from its own existential dilemmas.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:30 PM   #15
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Macedonians have to be the most divided nation on the planet. Since the borders were put in place in 1913, our homeland and our people were divided:

-Linguistically (Greek in Aegean Macedonia, Serbian/Bulgarian in the north)
-Religiously (different Orthodox churches, different church calendars where we can't even celebrate Christmas together)
-Time zones (Aegean/Pirin Macedonia is an hour ahead)
-Economic systems (Yugoslav/Bulgarian communist economy vs Greek capitalist economy)
-Political systems (East/Soviet oriented government vs West oriented government)
-Writing systems (Cyrillic vs Greek)
etc. etc. etc.

Whether Macedonians should be grouped with the Eastern Europe/Slavic countries vs Mediterranean countries is just another division stemming from 1913.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Thank you YuriB. I have said it before, if Greece played the game differently, Macedonians could have been the best and fiercest of Greeks. By differently, I mean by acknowledging the differences in language and culture and yet embracing/including them as part of the modern Greek culture (which could have used commonality in religion). Sure it sounds strange to hear a proud Macedonian say this, but we are talking about an era long gone now. Perhaps around the time the modern Greek nation was formed until about when the Abecedar was introduced.

Greece is still a multi ethnic State and still suffers from its own existential dilemmas.
I've always thought along similar lines. If Greeks just accepted Macedonians as a unique nation and accepted the fact that they do occupy part of ethno-historic Macedonia, which is Macedonian and not Greek, then there would have been a massive rapprochement between us. Macedonia could not make any territorial claims and I don't think it even would have wanted to. We can barely deal with a few hundred thousand Albanians, let alone adding a couple of million Greeks, Turks and more Albanians to that mix.

If Greece respected the human rights of Macedonians within their borders, it would have been a full and final settlement. But the Greeks have just as much, if not more, of an identity crisis as us. I suspect their real fear was not losing territory, but losing a part of the myth of Greekness. Which to me is strange because they have plenty to celebrate - probably much more than we do. The Greeks excelled in areas we couldn't even come close to - areas such as philosophy, political thought, science, mathematics, literature etc.

What the appropriation of the Macedonian contribution to history added to Greekness I will never understand. The most we achieved was the mastery of brute force - and when we need it the most its long gone.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:07 PM   #17
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Macedonians are neither ‘slavic’ or Mediterranean. They are part of the Balkan group of people but ultimately they are just simply Macedonians, unique amongst the other Balkan people. I’m not going to waste my time going into details about history and other stuff, but you can simply see Macedonians are a different people when you look at their physical appearance when comparing them to the regular serb, Greek etc
Btw I classify Balkan people who are an old, mountaines race of different people, who are a mixture of ancient and modern peoples.

Excluding the Slovenes there are no ‘pure slavs’ in the balkans. Ironic considering most right wing Slovenes think they are german and even more ironic as serbs think they are the most purest ‘slavs’ in the Balkans and thus little Russians (they are the least Slavic ‘slavs’ along with bulgars and Macedonians).

Look at the Romanians, they are genetically very similar to Bulgarians and Serbs (and probably Macedonians) yet their national idea is that they are a ‘latin people’. My opinion is that they are a mixture of Dacians (ancient people) with a big Slavic influence and a bit of “latin” (modern peoples) – basically the typical Balkan mix.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I've always thought along similar lines. If Greeks just accepted Macedonians as a unique nation and accepted the fact that they do occupy part of ethno-historic Macedonia, which is Macedonian and not Greek, then there would have been a massive rapprochement between us. Macedonia could not make any territorial claims and I don't think it even would have wanted to. We can barely deal with a few hundred thousand Albanians, let alone adding a couple of million Greeks, Turks and more Albanians to that mix.

If Greece respected the human rights of Macedonians within their borders, it would have been a full and final settlement. But the Greeks have just as much, if not more, of an identity crisis as us. I suspect their real fear was not losing territory, but losing a part of the myth of Greekness. Which to me is strange because they have plenty to celebrate - probably much more than we do. The Greeks excelled in areas we couldn't even come close to - areas such as philosophy, political thought, science, mathematics, literature etc.

What the appropriation of the Macedonian contribution to history added to Greekness I will never understand. The most we achieved was the mastery of brute force - and when we need it the most its long gone.
Good point.

I think it would have been easy to turn macedonians into good greeks, and this would probably lead to macedonians being loyal to greece, or possibly eventually assimilating them into greeks in the long run.

Who knows perhaps in this alternate time line imagine if republic of macedonia was to become independent from yugoslavia and immediately be looked after by greece and turned into a small greek satelite country support and controlled by Greece.

Instead the greeks have turned (intellegent) macedonians into enemies for eternaty. Its typical balkan short sightness and greek backwardness.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I have said it before, if Greece played the game differently, Macedonians could have been the best and fiercest of Greeks.
I don't belive you would be erroneous by stating this, one only needs to look at the example of Yugoslavia for evidence to support this kind of view. Once Macedonians were “allowed” to be who they were, most eventually became accepting of the federation, with many becoming strong advocates of it.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Thank you YuriB. I have said it before, if Greece played the game differently, Macedonians could have been the best and fiercest of Greeks. By differently, I mean by acknowledging the differences in language and culture and yet embracing/including them as part of the modern Greek culture (which could have used commonality in religion). Sure it sounds strange to hear a proud Macedonian say this, but we are talking about an era long gone now. Perhaps around the time the modern Greek nation was formed until about when the Abecedar was introduced.

Greece is still a multi ethnic State and still suffers from its own existential dilemmas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
I've always thought along similar lines. If Greeks just accepted Macedonians as a unique nation and accepted the fact that they do occupy part of ethno-historic Macedonia, which is Macedonian and not Greek, then there would have been a massive rapprochement between us. Macedonia could not make any territorial claims and I don't think it even would have wanted to. We can barely deal with a few hundred thousand Albanians, let alone adding a couple of million Greeks, Turks and more Albanians to that mix.

If Greece respected the human rights of Macedonians within their borders, it would have been a full and final settlement. But the Greeks have just as much, if not more, of an identity crisis as us. I suspect their real fear was not losing territory, but losing a part of the myth of Greekness. Which to me is strange because they have plenty to celebrate - probably much more than we do. The Greeks excelled in areas we couldn't even come close to - areas such as philosophy, political thought, science, mathematics, literature etc.

What the appropriation of the Macedonian contribution to history added to Greekness I will never understand. The most we achieved was the mastery of brute force - and when we need it the most its long gone.

Very interesting perspectives.

I have to ask both of you, from my point of view, coming from a background where I don't even know many people from Egejska, in what ways do you think Greeks didn't ultimately accomplish their goals in relation to the Macedonians within their borders?

I am of the view that Macedonians in Greece already are good Greeks. The numbers of Macedonians their who identify as such seems to be going down. They haven't really done anything in decades to counter the Greek states anti Macedonian platform.

Some Macedonians may be resentful but it at least appears that a majority have bought into the Greekness of Macedonians.

Is there more to it than the naked eye? Am I missing something? As I said I don't have any intimate examples to go off of.
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