A Google search for terms "Constitutional name" only relates to Macedonia?

[indigen]

That should make the ignorant and uninformed who have swallowed this UNNATURAL (and DEVIOUS ANTI-MACEDONIAN) PROPAGANDA SLOGAN stop and think about what lies behind the push and where it originates.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=c2X&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q="constitutional+name"

Further info at following thread/s:

SMK-WMC: Igrite so imeto na drzhavata Makedonija [10 Dek. 2001]

".....На секому мора да му објасниме, а по се изгледа и некому меѓу нас самите, дека државата Македонија нема "уставно име", ниту пак името на Македонија со уставната референца "Република" е некакво "композитно име"!

Едноставно, името на државата Македонија не е инаугурирано со Уставот на државата. Оваа држава, оваа земја, се викала Македонија и кога немала Устав. Македонскиот народ така се викал и кога немал држава и кога немал Устав на држава. Оттука, апсурдно е да се тврди дека името на оваа држава е "Република Македонија" и дека тоа е "уставно име" или "композитно име". Името на државата не произлегува од нејзиниот Устав. Во Уставот само се нотира името на државата за да се знае за која земја станува збор, односно за која земја се однесува тој Устав и се утврдува внатрешното уредување, односно политичкиот систем на земјата. За жал, и во Македонија тоа го проповедаат оние, кои се длабоко инволвирани во предлогот на Меѓународната кризна група што не е рецепт од вчера или денес, туку има повеќегодишна генеза, со цел преку институциите на системот на државата Македонија да го имплементираат предлогот на своите странски ментори, како последен културен геноцид за затворање на македонското прашање на Балканот и во Европа....."

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2546

Za Potsetuvanje - Razno

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1761

Makedonska Nacionalna programa (SMK- 1993) - Macedonian National Program (WMC - 1993)

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2348

[Risto the Great]

Ha ha ... I can think of more interesting things to associate Macedonia with than this plastic terminology being thrown around. How embarrassing for us.

[indigen]

Further info on how countries of the world are identified and that many long-established states only recently joined the UN and thus clearly showing that the UN is NOT essential to a state's existence or identity, as some misguided people seem to think it is.


Member States of the United Nations

http://www.un.org/en/members/

Growth in United Nations membership, 1945-present

http://www.un.org/en/members/growth.shtml

UN Member States - On The Record

http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/unms/cms.shtml#aMemStates

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mk.html

Country name:
conventional long form: Republic of Macedonia
conventional short form: Macedonia
local long form: Republika Makedonija
local short form: Makedonija
former: People's Republic of Macedonia, Socialist Republic of Macedonia


---------------
Country name:
conventional long form: Hellenic Republic
conventional short form: Greece
local long form: Elliniki Dhimokratia
local short form: Ellas or Ellada
former: Kingdom of Greece

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gr.html

-------------

Country name:
conventional long form: Commonwealth of Australia
conventional short form: Australia
Government type:
federal parliamentary democracy and a Commonwealth realm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/as.html

---------------

Country name:
conventional long form: French Republic
conventional short form: France
local long form: Republique francaise
local short form: France
Government type: republic

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html

---------------

Country name:
conventional long form: Republic of Albania
conventional short form: Albania
local long form: Republika e Shqiperise
local short form: Shqiperia
former: People's Socialist Republic of Albania

-------------------
Country name:
conventional long form: Italian Republic
conventional short form: Italy
local long form: Repubblica Italiana
local short form: Italia
former: Kingdom of Italy
Government type: republic
---------------------
Country name:
conventional long form: Republic of Turkey
conventional short form: Turkey
local long form: Turkiye Cumhuriyeti
local short form: Turkiye
Government type: republican parliamentary democracy
-----------------
Thesaurus: conventional

adjective

1. Generally approved or agreed upon: accepted, orthodox, received, recognized, sanctioned.
2. Conforming to established practice or standards: button-down, conformist, establishmentarian, orthodox, straight, traditional. Slang square.
3. Fond of or given to ceremony: ceremonious, courtly, formal, punctilious. See courtesy/discourtesy.

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=conventional+&gwp=13

--------------

It would seem that countries have official names, i.e. conventional long form, and conventional short form names by which they are identified and ONLY MACEDONIA has a "CONSTITUTIONAL NAME".

[Risto the Great]

Thanks Indigen.
Your argument is watertight, the persistent reference to a Constitutional Name is nothing more than an artificial diversion from an hidden agenda that probably includes changing the "Constitutional Name". I cannot believe the masses are accepting this terminology so willingly.

[Bill77]

Thanks Indi,

Teach me bro. Where am i missing the point. I sincerely mean it.

You tell me Macedonia does not have a constitutional name. After searching for "Macedonia Constitution" i came across this,

{ Adopted on: 17 Nov 1991 }
{ Effective since: 20 Nov 1991 }
{ Amended on: 6 Jan 1992}
{ ICL Document Status: 1992 }

http://www.servat.unibe.ch/icl/mk00000_.html

Our country is refered as "Republic Of Macedonia". would that not be our Name in the Constitution, when people refer to our "Constitutional Name"?


Are the words "Republic Of" thats the issue where it should be only "MACEDONIA"?

Sorry if i am missing the point.
But i am trying.

[indigen]

Thanks Indi,

Teach me bro. Where am i missing the point. I sincerely mean it.

You tell me Macedonia does not have a constitutional name. After searching for "Macedonia Constitution" i came across this,

{ Adopted on: 17 Nov 1991 }
{ Effective since: 20 Nov 1991 }
{ Amended on: 6 Jan 1992}
{ ICL Document Status: 1992 }

http://www.servat.unibe.ch/icl/mk00000_.html

Our country is refered as "Republic Of Macedonia". would that not be our Name in the Constitution, when people refer to our "Constitutional Name"?


Are the words "Republic Of" thats the issue where it should be only "MACEDONIA"?

Sorry if i am missing the point.
But i am trying.

You are missing a lot and I suggest you do some reading and thinking on the topic before we go further. Also, follow the provided links above and have a good read there, too.

A tip: What was Macedonia called before the 1991 constitution? What is it called in the Bible and history books? What does the slogan "Macedonia for the Macedonians" mean to you? What do Macedonians shout at protest rallies and when cheering for Macedonian teams at sports events?

MA--KE--DON--I--JA..... MA--KE--DON--I--JA....MA--KE--DON--I--JA......

[Bill77]

Dobro.

nacim ima constitucia i constitucitno ime. a belata e oti ne pishi samo Makedonia i kladeno "republika" prednego. za toa ima pravo za lutachka.
samo jas se bunev koga ti reche "constitucia ime ne postoj". a ne go priznavame toa ime ili ne go prifajkame, toa e drug predmet.

i sakam da znam koj a napisa constituciata? nie samite ne go napisame?
ova moj prashajne nema vrska za dali treba da se prifajka ili ne.
ama sakam da znam oti taka se store.

[Pelister]

Very true Indigen - the U.N and especially club membership to the E.U is not central to our existence, but we have to expect other countries to accept us as we are.

Israel tried to get into the U.N but was knocked back on 2 occaions, before finally being admitted. Only after its 3rd attempt.

[Pelister]

Further info on how countries of the world are identified and that many long-established states only recently joined the UN and thus clearly showing that the UN is NOT essential to a state's existence or identity, as some misguided people seem to think it is.


Member States of the United Nations

http://www.un.org/en/members/

Growth in United Nations membership, 1945-present

http://www.un.org/en/members/growth.shtml

UN Member States - On The Record

http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/unms/cms.shtml#aMemStates

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mk.html

Country name:
conventional long form: Republic of Macedonia
conventional short form: Macedonia
local long form: Republika Makedonija
local short form: Makedonija
former: People's Republic of Macedonia, Socialist Republic of Macedonia


---------------
Country name:
conventional long form: Hellenic Republic
conventional short form: Greece
local long form: Elliniki Dhimokratia
local short form: Ellas or Ellada
former: Kingdom of Greece

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gr.html

-------------

Country name:
conventional long form: Commonwealth of Australia
conventional short form: Australia
Government type:
federal parliamentary democracy and a Commonwealth realm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/as.html

---------------

Country name:
conventional long form: French Republic
conventional short form: France
local long form: Republique francaise
local short form: France
Government type: republic

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html

---------------

Country name:
conventional long form: Republic of Albania
conventional short form: Albania
local long form: Republika e Shqiperise
local short form: Shqiperia
former: People's Socialist Republic of Albania

-------------------
Country name:
conventional long form: Italian Republic
conventional short form: Italy
local long form: Repubblica Italiana
local short form: Italia
former: Kingdom of Italy
Government type: republic
---------------------
Country name:
conventional long form: Republic of Turkey
conventional short form: Turkey
local long form: Turkiye Cumhuriyeti
local short form: Turkiye
Government type: republican parliamentary democracy
-----------------
Thesaurus: conventional

adjective

1. Generally approved or agreed upon: accepted, orthodox, received, recognized, sanctioned.
2. Conforming to established practice or standards: button-down, conformist, establishmentarian, orthodox, straight, traditional. Slang square.
3. Fond of or given to ceremony: ceremonious, courtly, formal, punctilious. See courtesy/discourtesy.

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=conventional+&gwp=13

--------------

It would seem that countries have official names, i.e. conventional long form, and conventional short form names by which they are identified and ONLY MACEDONIA has a "CONSTITUTIONAL NAME".

That is a powerful case you make there Indigen.

I would say that this whole business about our 'Constitutional Name' is all about changing it.

The Macedonian government needs to ask other countries to accept us the way we are - and if they don't, leave it at that.

[indigen]

Dobro.
nacim ima constitucia i constitucitno ime.

NE RAZBIRATE! Vi ponudiv da gi prochitate porakite sodrzhani ovde in na nekolku drugi vrski i da razmislite malku podlabko no Vie za zhal ne go napravivte toa i pak zaletuvate na pogreshen pat!

Se nadevam slednovo objasnuvanje od strana na Todor Petrov (SMK) kje pomogne za RASVETLUVANJE na neshtata i proteruvanje na MAGLATA vo koja ste propadnale po ova prashanje:

Името на државата не произлегува од нејзиниот Устав. Во Уставот само се нотира името на државата за да се знае за која земја станува збор, односно за која земја се однесува тој Устав и се утврдува внатрешното уредување, односно политичкиот систем на земјата. За жал, и во Македонија тоа го проповедаат оние, кои се длабоко инволвирани во предлогот на Меѓународната кризна група што не е рецепт од вчера или денес, туку има повеќегодишна генеза, со цел преку институциите на системот на државата Македонија да го имплементираат предлогот на своите странски ментори, како последен културен геноцид за затворање на македонското прашање на Балканот и во Европа....."

SMK-WMC: Igrite so imeto na drzhavata Makedonija [10 Dek. 2001]

a belata e oti ne pishi samo Makedonia i kladeno "republika" prednego. za toa ima pravo za lutachka.

Belata e shto nekoj ne si ja pravilno prochital i razbral ovaa tema (niza - topic)!

samo jas se bunev koga ti reche "constitucia ime ne postoj". a ne go priznavame toa ime ili ne go prifajkame, toa e drug predmet.

Prochitajte pogore za pojasnuvanje!

i sakam da znam koj a napisa constituciata? nie samite ne go napisame? ova moj prashajne nema vrska za dali treba da se prifajka ili ne. ama sakam da znam oti taka se store.

Ne te razbiram shto sakash da znaesh i da kazhish.

".....На секому мора да му објасниме, а по се изгледа и некому меѓу нас самите, дека државата Македонија нема "уставно име", ниту пак името на Македонија со уставната референца "Република" е некакво "композитно име"!

Едноставно, името на државата Македонија не е инаугурирано со Уставот на државата. Оваа држава, оваа земја, се викала Македонија и кога немала Устав. Македонскиот народ така се викал и кога немал држава и кога немал Устав на држава. Оттука, апсурдно е да се тврди дека името на оваа држава е "Република Македонија" и дека тоа е "уставно име" или "композитно име".

SMK-WMC: Igrite so imeto na drzhavata Makedonija [10 Dek. 2001]

[George S.]

the way i see it is the greeks are trying to change a countrie's costitutional name.Think about it originally greece made us use the name fyrom & now wan't's us to use republic of macedonia vardar.They want us to use a suffix in our name.As pelister said greece & the world need to accept us as we are.We don't have to change our name.

[indigen]

Уставот на Република Македонија пишува дека името на Република Македонија е Република Македонија. Што ти бучи тебе?

Извор: СМК
Тодор Петров:“...Името на државата е Македонија, а уставната референца е “Република”, барем додека ни е такво уставното уредување, и само тоа може да се менува, а не и името на државата, уште еднаш упатуваме јавен апел до Глигоров, во името на македонскиот народ и државата Македонија, во името на сите живи Македонци од сите меридијани на земјината топка, од името на сите мртви и умрени за Македонија, од пред Христос и по Христос, во името на сите можни Богови, веднаш писмено да го извести Генералниот секретар на ООН дека државата Македонија членувањето во ООН и во сите органи на ООН и меѓународни органи, организации и заедници го продолжува безусловно и веднаш со единственото име Македонија, пред кое МОЖЕ да се употребува и уставната референца “Република”...”

Todor Petrov:”... The name of the state is Macedonia, and the constitutional reference is “Republic”, at least until our constitutional arrangement is appropriate, and only this can be changed, and not the name of the state, once again we direct a public appeal to Gligorov,in the name of the Macedonian people and state of Macedonia,in the name of all living Macedonians in all meridians of the globe, on behalf of all the dead and fallen for Macedonia, before Christ and after Christ, in the name of all possible gods, to immediately in writing inform UN Secretary General that the state of Macedonia membership in the UN and all UN bodies and international bodies, organizations and communities is to continue unconditionally and immediately with only the name Macedonia, before which MAY also be used the constitutional reference “Republic”...”


29.10.2009 извор: СМК

“...Меѓународно име е државното име Македонија, а името на македонскиот народ и јазик се нераскинливо поврзани со името на државата Македонија. Секоја промена на државното име Македонија значи трајна промена на името на македонскиот народ и јазик, бидејќи по меѓународно право националноста како синоним за државјанство по автоматизам се определува од името на нацијата како синоним за држава...”

29/10/2009 source: WMC

“... International name is the state name Macedonia, and the name of the Macedonian people and language are inseparably linked with the name of the state of Macedonia. Any change of state name Macedonia means a permanent change in the name of the Macedonian people and language, because in international law nationality as synonym for citizenship automatically determines the name of the nation as a synonym for state ... “



Извор: СМК
Тодор Петров: “...Државата Македонија, господине Глигоров, нема вековно уставно име “Република Македонија” бидејќи името на државата Македонија е постаро од Уставот на Република Македонија, иако денешните гео-политички граници на државата Македонија не се исти со етно-историските граници на Македонија од пред 10 август 1913-та година, а Вашиот 90 годишен живот како и сечиј друг е минорен дел од вековната историја на Македонија.


Todor Petrov:”... The state of Macedonia, Mr Gligorov, does not have a centuries-old constitutional name “Republic of Macedonia” as the name of the state of Macedonia is older than the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia, although today's geo-political boundaries of the state of Macedonia do not coincide with the ethnic and historical boundaries of Macedonia before August 10, 1913, and Your 90 year-old life, as that of everyone else, is but an insignificant part of the eternal history of Macedonia...”

[George S.]

Indigen you are missunderstanding me is that greece only wan'ts to destroy macedonia's constitutional name.You are missing the point that it's all one sided argument as everyone is waiting on a compromise that's why the talks must be stopped at once.In your reference to cut & paste Todor Petrov duplicated.Last time he gave a visit to australia he advocated some kind of change,he didn't say name but he said we should solve the problem with greece by appeasing it.This view is similar to what branko crvenkovski was advocating a name change to new macedonia.So indigen Don't be surprised if even TOdor petrov advocates a name change.I for one would not allow my name to be changed just to appease someone like greece.
Also the thread Google search for terms "Constitutional name" only relates to Macedonia?Do people know that it was in recent news greece is waging a CYBER War on macedonia & it's trying to sway the search engines like google etc to come up with only certain scenarios & not others.It's all part & parcel with their kind of propaganda war.

[Vangelovski]

George S.,

I think you're missing the point.

Here are some questions you may wish to ask yourself:

Why is it the universal norm to refer to states under their conventional short form name, whereas in Macedonia, its vassal politicians (and their representatives) have instigated a campaign to refer to Macedonia under its conventional long form name?

What is a “constitutional name”?

What role does the constitution play in relation to the name of a state?

Is the name of a state derived from its constitution, or does the constitution simply acknowledge the cultural/identity norm which already exists? Which of these two is relevant to the Macedonian case?

Why “Republic of Macedonia” instead of “Macedonia”?

[Risto the Great]

Why “Republic of Macedonia” instead of “Macedonia”?

Absolutely.
Surely all of these things work from the root.
The country is Macedonia.
It is a republic which is also a synonym for democracy.
Some people would have us called Democratic Democracy of Macedonia or something like that.
But surely it is simply Macedonia.
What is the fascination with Republic or Republika Makedonija?