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Old 01-15-2017, 06:26 AM   #21
Tomche Makedonche
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Interesting indeed, but it could pave the way towards breaking this hold that ethnic Albanian parties have over Macedonia. There are huge issues with the Macedonian parties, but if there was ever a time for them to form a common front for the betterment of Macedonia and all of its people (at least in relation to this threat posed by ethnic Albanian politicians), it is now.
Well this is the hope we all share, but history tends to remind us it's just a fools hope. The situation can go a number of ways, SDS and DPNE have always been more obsessed with slitting each other's throats in order to hold the keys to the vault then anything else, but I guess we'll see soon enough
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:54 PM   #22
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I agree that it is a fools hope. If Macedonians ever had that sense of unity then I think our entire human history would have turned out a lot more differently than it has.

Some self serving kopile will call for common ground with the Albanians and then brag about how a crisis was averted in exchange for more embarrassment.
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Old 02-03-2017, 08:18 AM   #23
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Former Slovakian minister of external affairs Edward Kukan (current head of the European People's Party in European Parliament's Committee for External Affairs) says the platform of the Albanian parties in Macedonia is "completely unacceptable":
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The activities of the Albanian prime minister after the elections in Macedonia, for me are totally unacceptable, totally unacceptable! To invite the Albanian political parties from Macedonia to discuss their platform and what to do when they return to their country, is really too much. I'm surprised nobody mentioned publicly, but I know it caused a lot of criticism, a lot of criticism. That is not how things are done
http://www.vest.mk/default.asp?ItemI...7B73C135083677
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:19 PM   #24
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Македонскиот претседател му соопштил на Хан дека како и досега, така и во иднина, ќе постапува во рамки на Уставот и во интерес на државата и на граѓаните на Република Македонија. Тој исто така истакнал дека очекува од новата влада да има два клучни приоритети, односно заштита на државните интереси на Република Македонија, што подразбира зачувување и зацврстување на унитарниот карактер на државата, и системска реформа по кризата во која ќе бидат опфатени субјектите на системот за национална безбедност на државата.
http://meta.mk/ivanov-do-han-eu-ne-g...na-makedonija/

I am not sure of the President’s official, formal, constitutional powers (whether they are purely ceremonial or whether they confer upon him actual substantive power), but it strikes me that Ivanov is saying that should Zaev forge a coalition with the Albanians, which is not in the interest of the Macedonian ethnicity, then Ivanov will reject such a deal on the basis that the unique ethnic character of Macedonia will be coming under attack through dilution and the safety of the country will endangered. The sought dual language change, change of name (in specific reference to the Greek problem), the change of the national symbols, change of national anthem, the change of the constitution. LOL there’s a call for a wholesale transplant of the heritage.
What is interesting here is that I am not sure who officially confirms the government. Zaev wants the so called ‘mandate’ given to him from Ivanov, which Ivanov claims will be given to anyone who manages to gather 61 signatures. So Zaev is busily collecting signatures from the Albanians.
I’ve heard that Ahmeti will only give his party’s 10 (minister’s) signatures if Zaev publicly agrees to the so called ‘Albanian platform’ (raft of demands). I think this is a minor point as I bet they’ll manage to aggregate 61 signatures and then begin what are formal negotiations for the formation of government. What confuses me is why they cannot just engage in inter-party discussions and settle an agreement and then walk to the President to state that they have an agreement for a coalition and that they have more than 61 ministers (pratenici), and then ask of Ivanov for this mandate to govern.

Does Ivanov need to formally swear in the government and render it legal and official- and can he reject that formal process on grounds of security? i.e. Zaev promises the house to the Albanians and all but sells the country to them; Ivanov then demands the content/substance of the contractual agreement between Zaev and the Albanians to see if they are undermining the unique character and security of the country; Zaev either agrees to publicly disclose the agreement or does not agree, arguing that simply collecting greater than 61 signatures is enough to form government, with the details and content of agreements to be worked out at a later stages as part of the very process of governing itself, which will include consulting the people and citizens and possibly referendums to settle certain contentious issues, etc. Ivanov will argue that his duty as President is to keep the country united and this new governing coalition is presenting a threat to the nation, thus he will refuse to formally ratify it and he will then be forced to call for new elections for a more decisive resolution of the political crisis.
Could this then go to the constitutional court for resolution as to the actual powers the President has at his disposal?
Once Ivanov hands over this so-called ‘mandate’ after 61 signatures are presented to him, does that then mean the Zaev and Albanian parties’ coalition is the formal government of the country, thus sidelining Ivanov? If that is the case, then Ivanov’s public statements make me think that he will not give Zaev and (newly acquired) friends the ‘mandate’ even if they accumulate 61 votes because Ivanov will demand to see the basis on which the collation was formed- the substance of their governing agenda. At this point it could head to the constitutional court for resolution as Zaev and co would claim the President is overstepping the boundary of his presidential powers in demanding more than just a minimum of 61 signatures- demanding to see content of policies, which is not his business- though Ivanov will claim that it is his constitutional duty to keep the country united and to safeguard it from disintegrating as is foreshadowed in a SDSM coalition with Albanians as per their publicly stated comments. i.e. Zaev has stated publicly that adopting a dual-language policy is fine by him, and Albanians demand it; though this would change the character of the country, which is an unacceptable demand to the President, on which basis he will reject offering a mandate to SDSM and the Albanians.

What do people think about these issues?
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:24 AM   #25
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So I got the official platform off of DUI's website, and put in bold what I thought were some of the alarming aspects:

http://bdi.mk/en/lajmi.php?id=5768


We agree to mutual support for a common political agenda that envisions the achievement of following objectives, during the next, or any other following, government mandate:


1. Achievement of full equality, in compliance with the Ohrid Framework Agreement and the Constitution

• Strict implementation of the principle of multi-ethnicity in the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia, where the Albanians shall be recognized a nation-building population. Support for any legislation of constitutional initiative that strengthens ethnic equality for the Albanian population.

• Achievement of full linguistic equality, use of the Albanian language at all levels of governance and guaranteeing its use as a basic and constitutional right. The Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia shall determine that “the Macedonian language and its Cyrillic script and the Albanian language and its script are official languages in the Republic of Macedonia.”

All-inclusive debate on the flag, anthem, and state coat-of-arms of the Republic of Macedonia, so that state symbols reflect societal multi-ethnicity and ethnic equality.

• Adoption of a Resolution in the Parliament of the Republic of Macedonia with which to condemn the genocide on the Albanian people in Macedonia during 1912-1952.


2. Achievement of economic equality and societal wellbeing, especially through the equitable regional development

• Establishment of a new mechanism, in the form of a State Committee on Financing of Municipalities, for a more just decision-making with regard to government grants for municipalities’ benefit.

• Creation of a Ministry for Political System and Relations among Communities, as a body responsible for the respect for the rights of the communities and to incentivize economic and societal development in disfavored areas.

• Realization of equitable representation in the security bodies, the military, intelligence [agencies], and the judiciary.

• Realization of equitable representation at all levels of central governance, as well as public agencies, or public shareholder enterprises.

3. Strengthening of the Rule of Law, as a prerequisite for the advancement of the Euro-Atlantic integration process

• Implementation of the Reform Plan, in accordance with the Skopje Agreement [Przino], the Priebe Recommendations, the Urgent Reform Priorities of the European Commission, as well as the recommendations from the High-Level Accession Dialogue with the EU.

• Support for the impartial work of the Special Prosecution [Office], without ethnic or political prejudice.

• Shedding full light on the issues and court cases of “Sopot,” “Brodec,” “Monster,” and “Kumanovo,” though an investigative committee, or an independent international body.

4. Creation of a spirit of trust in the function of good interethnic relations, as a crucial element to the political stability of the country

Affirmative measures to ensure the financing of Albanian cultural institutions at the local and national level.

Creation of a central institution for the advancement of the languages of the communities, which shall ensure the training of translators, editors and lectors.

5. Resolution of the name issue, in conformity with European values and the principles of international law

• Adoption of a Joint Binding Resolution in the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia which shall oblige the Government of Macedonia to commit to actively work toward a solution to the name dispute.

Inclusion of Albanians in the working group for direct negotiations with Greece.

6. Good Relations With the Neighbors

Inclusion of Albanians in the working group for direct negotiations with Bulgaria.

Cooperation with Kosovo and Albania for the integrated border management.

Opening of new border crossings.

7. Quick integration in NATO and the EU

• Accomplishing the above points shall unblock Macedonia’s path toward full integration in NATO and open negotiations for membership in the European Union.


The accomplishment of these objectives will be supervised through the establishment of a Roundtable of Albanian Parliamentary Parties.

The Roundtable of Albanian Parliamentary Parties shall function according to the principle of rotation and shall serve as a platform for the harmonization of political actions and transparent communication with Macedonia’s international partners, while seeking in particular the support of the European Union and international institutions.

The Roundtable shall determine the deadlines for the accomplishment of the above-mentioned objectives, in accordance with the laws and the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:49 AM   #26
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For everyone that think this so-called "Tirana platform" is something new, here are a couple of exempts from an official paper of the Macedonian Government, available for download on their official webpage:











The paper is dated from 2015, so it was made by the government of DPMNE/DUI, and as it can be seen it contains most of what the "Tirana platform" stood for.
So, the fake patriots accepted most of the platform 2 years ago, and now they're denouncing it and play the nationalist card to score political points.
Link to the story: http://novatv.mk/platoformata-na-dui...adata-vo-2015/

P.S.: For anyone interested in downloading the full paper, go to http://www.siofa.gov.mk/, and then to "ДОКУМЕНТИ ЗА ПРЕЗЕМАЊЕ" on the right, and download the first paper titled "Преглед на Охридскиот Договор за социјалната кохезија".
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:33 AM   #27
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Interesting Debate with Ziadin Sela and Macedonian journalist on Alsat M.. brings up a few issues discussed on here..


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rXzb54H9jMM
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Interesting Debate with Ziadin Sela and Macedonian journalist on Alsat M.. brings up a few issues discussed on here..


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rXzb54H9jMM
Ziadin Sela seems like a pretty big asshole. Wouldn't even really let the Macedonian speaker counter argue and kept interrupting her.

But he definitely got one thing right. He seems pretty worried about the 20% threshold for the Albanian language to be co-official/. I guess he realizes that they are above 20% by only a few percentage points.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:22 AM   #29
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http://plusinfo.mk/mislenje/2703/a-s...ta-platforma-5
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:14 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mklion View Post
Ziadin Sela seems like a pretty big asshole. Wouldn't even really let the Macedonian speaker counter argue and kept interrupting her.

But he definitely got one thing right. He seems pretty worried about the 20% threshold for the Albanian language to be co-official/. I guess he realizes that they are above 20% by only a few percentage points.
He got his right of way today didn't he???
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