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Macedonia Language Law Draws Praise and Vitriol
Macedonia’s adoption of a law extending the use of the Albanian language has drawn praise from neighbouring Albania and Kosovo – but also fury from nationalists at home.
While Albania and Kosovo have praised Macedonia’s new government, led by the Social Democrats, for improving Albanian language rights, nationalist critics at home have savaged the change as unconstitutional.
Macedonian police on Thursday confirmed that the car of one Social Democrat MP, Slavica Shumanska-Miteva, was set on fire in the town of Vinica on Wednesday night.
Shumanska-Miteva said that she suspected that the attack was inspired by Wednesday’s violent scenes in parliament.
“Vandals are behind this, encouraged by yesterday’s conduct of the [opposition] VMRO DPMNE MPs, when they tried to prevent the vote,” she told Fokus daily.
Police also reported arresting one person on Wednesday night in front of the parliament building in Skopje, after a search determined he carried baton and rocks.
On the other hand, leaders in Kosovo and Albania welcomed Wednesday’s adoption of the long-anticipated law that extends the use of the Albanian language in Macedonia.
“I greet the determination to approve the law ... as an important historical and important act, not only for Albanians but also for the European future of Macedonia,” the President of Albania, Ilir Meta, wrote on Facebook.
Ditmir Bushati, Albania's Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs, called it an important achievement.
“The passage of this law after the refusal of the [Macedonian] President and the obstructionist behavior of some specific segments of the old politics, is a great achievement for Albanians as a state-forming population,” Bushati wrote.
The Macedonian parliament adopted the law on Wednesday in a tense atmosphere.
Minutes before the vote, former prime minister and former leader of the VMRO DPMNE party Nikola Gruevski went behind speaker Talat Xhaferi’s desk and tried to meddle with his electronic equipment.
Tension peaked when Gruevski had a brief scuffle with the speaker, prompting the parliament's security force to intervene and separate the two.
Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov, who already vetoed the law in January, and is now obliged to sign it, also opposed the decision, and said that despite his constitutional duties, he would not sign the act, which may further complicate his relations with the new government.
While the government insists the law will make life easier for ethnic Albanians in the country and boost their loyalty to it, the opposition insists it goes against the constitution and endangers national unity.
Kosovo’s President, Hashim Thaci, meanwhile said that it was good news not only for the Albanian community but for the entire region.
“There is good will for coexistence, respecting cultural diversity and dignity and integrity of every citizen,” Klan Kosova TV quoted Thaci as saying.
The Kosovo Prime Minister, Ramush Haradinaj, called it a major step forward, for Albanian rights and for respect for civic values.
“The Macedonian parliament's decision enhances relations between the communities living in the country, promotes its democratic development and opens the country's perspective towards Euro-Atlantic integrations,” Haradinaj wrote on Facebook.
The speaker of Kosovo parliament, Kadri Veseli, also greeted a move towards “the fulfillment of a legitimate and essential right.
“This event marks an important step in the fulfillment of the Ohrid Agreement and the achievement of the high human rights standards required in the framework of Euro-Atlantic integration,” Veseli wrote.
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French Ambassador to Macedonia says that the illegal parliamentary adoption of the law on languages hinders Macedonia's EU chances.Comment
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This proves to me that the vote yesterday was about SDS and NLA securing their coalition alliance and had nothing to do with EU aspirations.
Though, it's funny that SDS sold this as a move to make Macedonian more respectable in the EU. That's called irony.
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An inter-Macedonian view(debate) pro and against the language law.. guessing not many here have the views of Petar Arsovski..
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Hey Vic,Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
Mate it's not as if our politicians and current FYROMIANS are deserving of a country, they have no interest in preserving our nation or culture. The patriotic people are the older people, the youngens are globalists.Comment
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Albo, the reason is known regarding why the census was sabotaged from the very beginning.Originally posted by Albo View PostVmro ruled with total controll of instututions and would never let a junior coalition partner like dui say boo without approval..
We may never know the real reason why the census was stopped before all information was gathered.. large sections of the country were in fact counted (but fugures were never released)
I guess that the data that was being collected didn't work in the favor for vmro or even dui for whatever reason..
But to say that Albanians are way less than 25% as they were in the last census isn't based on any statistical fact..
Yes many leave.. they come and go.. many dont come back often.. the same applies with the Macedonian community who traditionally migrated much less than Albanians..(also a census has never been held in summer when most Albanians are present)
What we can go by until there is fresh count it offical statistics..
Here is one regarding births along ethnic lines from 2002 - 20016 (sure if I've posted it in the past)
Sorry only have an Alb version.. but its understandable:
DUI wanted it during summer when there will be Albanians living in Western Europe and other places coming into the country and therefore boosting their numbers.
The reason for a census is to see how many people are in the country at a given time and unfortunately the Albanian camp were more interested in their own agenda's than the real purpose for a census.Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.
Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.Comment
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Albanians have made up approximately 30% of the births in the country for close to 30 years. The actual number of Albanians in the country has not changed since the early to mid 90s. The reason there has not been a change is because their emigration numbers are so high.Originally posted by Albo View Post
The best indicator of what is actually happening in the country is to look at the most vital statistic of the Albanians by looking at the total students in primary and secondary school education. The Macedonian State Statistical office has all of these stats if you just dig in and read about them.
There are stats for the number of Albanian students in primary and lower secondary education since 1966. Here are the stats taken from the Macedonian SSO.
Albanian students........Total
1966 41426...............257858 (16.1%)
1967 43735….............257508 (17.0%)
1968 47372...............257949 (18.4%)
1969 50347...............259394 (19.4%)
1970 53020..........…...260033 (20.4%)
1971 54801...............262863 (20.8%)
1972 59047...............266205 (22.1%)
1973 63170...............268120 (23.6%)
1974 64919...............?
1975 67817...............270154 (25.1%)
1976 69963...............272370 (25.6%)
1977 71521...............272885 (26.2%)
1978 73718...........…..274015 (26.9%)
1979 74402...............273182 (27.2%)
1980 75676...............272344 (27.8%)
1981 75371...............271631 (27.7%)
1982 76218............….271727 (28.0%)
1983 76340...............272304 (28.0%)
1984 76297….............272698 (28.0%)
1985 76533….............273219 (28.0%)
1986 76210................272564 (28.0%)
1987 75221................273386 (27.5%)
1988 74425................271915 (27.4%)
1989 72651................268960 (27.0%)
1990 72121................266813 (27.0%)
1991 69950................261127 (26.8%)
1992 69952................258955 (27.0%)
1993 70320................258671 (27.2%)
1994 71490................260197 (27.5%)
1995 72142................259515 (27.8%)
1996 73352................258587 (28.6%)
1997 74122................256275 (28.9%)
1998 76090................255150 (29.8%)
1999 76752................252212 (30.4%)
2000 75571................246490 (30.7%)
2001 76087................242707 (31.3%)
2002 75543................235516 (32.1%)
2003 75015................229564 (32.7%)
2004 74200................223876 (33.1%)
2005 79428................235185 (34.0%)
2006 78486................228207 (33.8%)
2007 75141.….............220833 (33.6%)
2008 72570................215078 (33.2%)
2009 69922................208980 (33.0%)
2010 66156................201914 (32.3%)
2011 65085................197859 (32.5%)
2012 63483................194055 (32.3%)
2013 62118................190541 (32.6%)
2014 62012................188361 (32.9%)
2015 60127................185119 (32.4%)
Couple of points from the following graph
1. Albanian student population had real "growth" in number size from 1966 to 1986. This corresponded to a student population increase in percentage share from 16.1% to 28%.
2. From 1987 onward the population stagnated with an average around 70-75000 students up to a peak of 79428 students in 2005. This trend from these years is the Albanian population hitting a plateau and failing to grow further.
3. Percentage share of Albanian students grew from 1992 to 2006 from 27.0% to a maximum of 34.0%. This growth happened because total student population started to tank (ie Macedonians having less kids and Albanians emigrating from the country) and NOT because of growth in Albanian numbers (except for one strong outlier year in 2005)
4. From 2005 onward the percentage dropped from a peak of 34% to 32.4%. There has never been a consecutive 7 year drop in Albanian students since record taking began in 1966. This is showing that the Albanian student population is falling faster than the total student population.
A few more points to consider.
1. in 2015 school year the total number of Albanians in school is around 60000 which is approximately the same number of Albanian students that were in school in 1972
2. On average in one year Albanians lose from 1500-2000 students. But this is students only, that means that for each Albanian student that emigrates there is one mother and one father that emigrates as well. So This means that MINIMUM 1500 X 3 = 4-4500 Albanians emigrate from the country on average per year assuming two adults take one kid. This figure also does not account for young educated emigrants who do not have kids or emigrants who return to Macedonia just to marry an Albanian and make that other young Albanian emigrate.
3. There are approximately 7-7500 Albanian births in the country per year. Deaths are approximately 3-4000. So Deaths + Emigration = NO POPULATION GROWTH.
Now onto the good stuff.
If Macedonia was to hold a census with proper methodology then the numbers would read like this:
Total Population - 175-1800000 million
Macedonian 1125000 = 62.5%
Albanian 470000 = 26%
Turkish 70000 = 4%
Romani 60000 = 3%
Serbs 30000 = 1%
All others 45000 = 2.5%
These estimates are based on the statistical research I have been doing on the country over the past 3-4 years and these numbers are derived from births, deaths, student population, calculated total fertility rates for each municipality and emigration approximations.Comment
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Macedonian Parliament Passes Controversial Law on Albanian Language
The Law on Languages, an unconstitutional measure designed to make Albanian a second official language in Macedonia, was passed in Parliament on Wednesday by negating the right to the parliamentary debate of proposed amendments, lawmaker Ilija Dimovski of the opposition VMRO-DPMNE party said.
The bill was passed in parliament earlier, but Macedonia’s President Gjorge Ivanov refused to sign it into law for deeming the measure unconstitutional and one that endangers the unitary Macedonian state. Ivanov returned the law to parliament for further review.
"The president [Ivanov] pointed out that 19 articles of the legislation are unconstitutional and VMRO-DPMNE submitted amendments with respect to those amendments," Dimovski said on the floor of Parliament on Wednesday, requesting the speaker not to allow a vote on the measure.
Dimovski explained the proposed amendments had been ignored by the ruling majority of the Albanian DUI party and the Socialdemocratic Union of Macedonia (SDSM), and listed numerous legal and procedural violations.
"The EU designation [as priority reform law] was used incorrectly, the government made a violation as did the Parliament by not returning the draft legislation to the government," Dimov said. "We called for public debate on the bill… but there was none."
After Dimovski's speech, Parliament Speaker Talat Dzaferi enabled voting on two other laws and called for a pause of one hour. Upon the lawmakers return, and after heated protests that at times threatened to turn into scuffles, the Law on Languages was passed with 64 out of 120 votes, and without the opposition lawmakers voting on it.
Solza Grceva, leader of the popular Voice for Macedonia party, lead the criticism of the law and wrote in a statement that the measure had been passed in a criminal manner in violation of parliamentary procedures and democratic principles by a US-installed governing coalition.
"This parliament is not ours, we do not recognize it. Macedonia must not be a hostage to a blackmailed government and politicians." Grceva said.
The vote on the law came after US Assistant Secretary of State Wess Mitchell and Senator Chris Murphy visited Macedonia to discuss Macedonia’s name dispute with Greece in an effort to promote NATO and EU membership.
On Wednesday evening, President Ivanov issued a statement to the nation saying the law was passed in an undemocratic manner, will cause a total blockade of the state institutions, deepen inter-ethnic tensions and subject Macedonia to a redefinition of its constitutional order.
As a consequence, Ivanov informed the public that he will not sign the measure into law.“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario SavioComment
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According to European census policy, people should be counted in the country that they live in (defined as more than three months), not the country they go to occasionally for summer holidays (as in Albanians going to Macedonia for the summer). And the primary purpose of a census is to know how many people live in a given jurisdiction so that that jurisdiction can plan for services, not so that the jurisdiction can provide privileges to a minority that has artificially boosted their numbers.Originally posted by VMRO View Post
A census was actually started in 2011 and the reason it was stopped was because there was mass falsifications that had already in the first few weeks counted 100,000 non-existent people or people who did not reside in Macedonia as per EU census definitions.Last edited by Vangelovski; 03-15-2018, 08:16 PM.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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Little old me thinks that a devious mind might lie about student numbers in order to demand/justify more services.Originally posted by mklion View PostAlbanians have made up approximately 30% of the births in the country for close to 30 years. The actual number of Albanians in the country has not changed since the early to mid 90s. The reason there has not been a change is because their emigration numbers are so high.
The best indicator of what is actually happening in the country is to look at the most vital statistic of the Albanians by looking at the total students in primary and secondary school education. The Macedonian State Statistical office has all of these stats if you just dig in and read about them.
There are stats for the number of Albanian students in primary and lower secondary education since 1966. Here are the stats taken from the Macedonian SSO.
Albanian students........Total
1966 41426...............257858 (16.1%)
1967 43735….............257508 (17.0%)
1968 47372...............257949 (18.4%)
1969 50347...............259394 (19.4%)
1970 53020..........…...260033 (20.4%)
1971 54801...............262863 (20.8%)
1972 59047...............266205 (22.1%)
1973 63170...............268120 (23.6%)
1974 64919...............?
1975 67817...............270154 (25.1%)
1976 69963...............272370 (25.6%)
1977 71521...............272885 (26.2%)
1978 73718...........…..274015 (26.9%)
1979 74402...............273182 (27.2%)
1980 75676...............272344 (27.8%)
1981 75371...............271631 (27.7%)
1982 76218............….271727 (28.0%)
1983 76340...............272304 (28.0%)
1984 76297….............272698 (28.0%)
1985 76533….............273219 (28.0%)
1986 76210................272564 (28.0%)
1987 75221................273386 (27.5%)
1988 74425................271915 (27.4%)
1989 72651................268960 (27.0%)
1990 72121................266813 (27.0%)
1991 69950................261127 (26.8%)
1992 69952................258955 (27.0%)
1993 70320................258671 (27.2%)
1994 71490................260197 (27.5%)
1995 72142................259515 (27.8%)
1996 73352................258587 (28.6%)
1997 74122................256275 (28.9%)
1998 76090................255150 (29.8%)
1999 76752................252212 (30.4%)
2000 75571................246490 (30.7%)
2001 76087................242707 (31.3%)
2002 75543................235516 (32.1%)
2003 75015................229564 (32.7%)
2004 74200................223876 (33.1%)
2005 79428................235185 (34.0%)
2006 78486................228207 (33.8%)
2007 75141.….............220833 (33.6%)
2008 72570................215078 (33.2%)
2009 69922................208980 (33.0%)
2010 66156................201914 (32.3%)
2011 65085................197859 (32.5%)
2012 63483................194055 (32.3%)
2013 62118................190541 (32.6%)
2014 62012................188361 (32.9%)
2015 60127................185119 (32.4%)
Couple of points from the following graph
1. Albanian student population had real "growth" in number size from 1966 to 1986. This corresponded to a student population increase in percentage share from 16.1% to 28%.
2. From 1987 onward the population stagnated with an average around 70-75000 students up to a peak of 79428 students in 2005. This trend from these years is the Albanian population hitting a plateau and failing to grow further.
3. Percentage share of Albanian students grew from 1992 to 2006 from 27.0% to a maximum of 34.0%. This growth happened because total student population started to tank (ie Macedonians having less kids and Albanians emigrating from the country) and NOT because of growth in Albanian numbers (except for one strong outlier year in 2005)
4. From 2005 onward the percentage dropped from a peak of 34% to 32.4%. There has never been a consecutive 7 year drop in Albanian students since record taking began in 1966. This is showing that the Albanian student population is falling faster than the total student population.
A few more points to consider.
1. in 2015 school year the total number of Albanians in school is around 60000 which is approximately the same number of Albanian students that were in school in 1972
2. On average in one year Albanians lose from 1500-2000 students. But this is students only, that means that for each Albanian student that emigrates there is one mother and one father that emigrates as well. So This means that MINIMUM 1500 X 3 = 4-4500 Albanians emigrate from the country on average per year assuming two adults take one kid. This figure also does not account for young educated emigrants who do not have kids or emigrants who return to Macedonia just to marry an Albanian and make that other young Albanian emigrate.
3. There are approximately 7-7500 Albanian births in the country per year. Deaths are approximately 3-4000. So Deaths + Emigration = NO POPULATION GROWTH.
Now onto the good stuff.
If Macedonia was to hold a census with proper methodology then the numbers would read like this:
Total Population - 175-1800000 million
Macedonian 1125000 = 62.5%
Albanian 470000 = 26%
Turkish 70000 = 4%
Romani 60000 = 3%
Serbs 30000 = 1%
All others 45000 = 2.5%
These estimates are based on the statistical research I have been doing on the country over the past 3-4 years and these numbers are derived from births, deaths, student population, calculated total fertility rates for each municipality and emigration approximations.
I say go and visit these little Albanians schools on random occasions and do a head count.
(But you will need to find Macedonians to do that job first)Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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Originally posted by Albo View PostWhat we can go by until there is fresh count it offical statistics..
Here is one regarding births along ethnic lines from 2002 - 20016 (sure if I've posted it in the past)
Sorry only have an Alb version.. but its understandable:
The fact that you posted these specific numbers in this chart just goes to show how you have no idea what you are talking about and cant even interpret a simple graph.
These statistics are taken from "Macedonia in Figures" publications located here
If you read the graph properly, you would notice that the Albanian births you are quoting are categorized by "Ethnic Affiliation of Mother". Ie. if an Albanian mother marries a Macedonian father they are not part of the Albanian ethinc group and these children are raised as Macedonian.
Every year there are a few hundred imported wives from Albania that Macedonian men in Eastern Macedonia marry. These kids do not grow up to be Albanian.
I have attached a picture of an example taken from "Macedonia In Figures 2017"
From this chart the ethnically pure Albanian births from Albanian Mother's and Father's are listed below.
Year.................Pure Albanian Births
2010.........................7104
2011.........................7011
2012.........................7261
2013.........................7377
2014.........................7173
2015.........................6934
2016.........................7108
So over the course of the last 6-7 years there has been no growth in the "Pure Albanian Births". Albanians still make up 30% of births in the country. In 5-10 years they will be down below 30% as they continue to emigrate in large numbers out of the country.
I believe that Albanians are pushing hard for these rights as over the next 5-10 years this will be their last chance to have a large nationalistic impact on the country. The Macedonians like Zaev are appeasing them to show how "Mature and European" our country is.
Furthermore, if Macedonia gets into the EU (which I don't believe they will), they will be even more likely to leave. The same thing happened when Bulgaria joined the EU - they lost a large proportion of their population.
"b-b-b-b-bbbbbuuuttttt Macedonians are leaving too!" Well Albo - although this is right - if Macedonians lose 50000 people and Albanians lose 50000 people to emigration the impact is harder on the Albanian group as their population is smaller and more subject to larger swings in percentages.
The perfect example of what mass emigration can do to the fragile Albanian Population in a municipality is for us to examine the Resen Municipality.
For such a small population it really takes only a few generations of young Albanians to emigrate to have a catastrophic effect on the decline of their population.
Albanians in Resen Municipality in 1971 Population 3667
Albanians in Resen Municipality in 2002 Population 1536 or a 41% decline in population. In a few generations the Albanian element in Resen will be all but gone and this gives you the perfect example of how emigration can hollow out the Albanian communityComment
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Edinstvena Makedonija: Xhaferi Has Called for War
(Google translate)
The Central Committee of the United Macedonia as the highest decision-making body of the party between two congresses, on an urgent and extraordinary session, reviewed the newly established situation with the Law on the Use of Languages.
At the session of the Central Committee, it was concluded that, as the statement said, yesterday's violent and unconstitutional introduction of language federalization in the country, as a transitional stage to territorial federalization, is an open call by Talat Xhaferi for war.
"Everyone who thinks that the numerous privileges that the members of the terrorist NLA have as senior state figures will make a big mistake, will cause them to forget the old dreams for the realization of the idea of a great Albanian state, which includes the territories of the Republic of Macedonia.
Yesterday's fire fighting by Talat Xhaferi only facilitates our work in the re-calculation with the radical Albanians, because Macedonians end their patience with the activities of the ex-NLA members on an anti-Macedonian basis, but this time they will not have work with political scenarios and treacherous Macedonian politicians from 2001, but this time they will have work with the Macedonian people ", writes United Macedonia in a statement.
The fourth conclusion is that "Talat Xhaferi, who, according to the UBK document, was involved in the massacre of the Macedonian defenders at Vejce, yesterday, in the most direct way attacked the constitutional order of the Republic of Macedonia, and hence the specific announcement of a new war by Talat Xhaferi puts the highest on the agenda of the United Macedonia and the Macedonian people.
The party also concluded that "the new legal power of Unified Macedonia will annul all anti-Macedonian and anti-state acts that destroy Macedonia and Macedonians."
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Macedonia needs a new political party with fresh insight as SDSM and VMRO are not getting it doneComment
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SDS is the wrong government to take Macedonia forward. Zoran Zaev is trying to sell the idea that a one nation means giving full language rights to Albanians.
They need to call early elections.Comment
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