Macedonians, Greeks and the New Testament

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  • johnMKD
    Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 364

    #16
    Originally posted by makedonin View Post
    That is true, but it stands rather for pagans oposed to Hebrew, read this:
    Exactly, you're right.

    Just to say here also that the Greek Bible that I have at home explains that when the term "Greeks" is used juxtaposed to "Hebrews" it means: non-believers. When it is used juxtaposed to "barbarians" it means: educated.
    Last edited by johnMKD; 04-30-2010, 02:42 AM.
    Macedonian and proud!

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    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #17
      Originally posted by johnMKD View Post
      .........when the term "Greeks" is used juxtaposed to "Hebrews" it means: non-believers. When it is used juxtaposed to "barbarians" it means: educated.
      That's correct John, the so-called Greeks in the Macedonian cities Berea and Salonika are not 'ethnic' Greeks, but non-Jews. Macedonia and the Macedonians are a separate entity and element from Greece, according to the New Testament.
      Acts Chapter 20
      When the uproar had ended, Paul sent for the disciples and, after encouraging them, said good-by and set out for Macedonia. He travelled through that area, speaking many words of encouragement to the people, and finally arrived in Greece, where he stayed three months. Because the Jews made a plot against him just as he was about to sail for Syria, he decided to go back through Macedonia.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • Bill77
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 4545

        #18
        Originally posted by johnMKD View Post
        When it is used juxtaposed to "barbarians" it means: educated.
        i have a diferent opinion John. I understood "Barbarian" to mean "unintelligible"

        Quote: WIKIPEDIA: "The term originates in the ancient Greek civilization, meaning "anyone who is not Greek". Comparable notions are found in non-European civilizations. Greek word βάρβαρος (bárbaros). The word is onomatopoeic, the bar-bar representing the impression of random hubbub produced by hearing a spoken language that one cannot understand, similar to blah blah, babble

        Although it must be said i don't entirely rely on wiki.



        Its possible later on the meaning "uneducated" could have been a rhetorical slant came from "Unintelligible" meaning if you do not speak Greek, you have not been educated. Later on and still to this day "Barbarian" has a differant meaning again "Describing someone as savage"

        The Hellenes used the term as they encountered scores of different foreign cultures, including the Egyptians, Persians, Celts, Germans, Phoenicians, Etruscans, Macedonians, and Carthaginians". so to call them "Barbarians" = "uneducated Greeks" would be wrong where as calling them "Barbarians" = "Unintelligible" after encountering them would make more sence.


        Barbarian is used in its Hellenic sense by St. Paul in the New Testament (Romans 1:14)
        English Standard Version (©2001)
        I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish.

        New International Version (©1984)
        I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish..
        to describe non-Greeks, and to describe one who merely speaks a different language (1 Corinthians 14:11).
        New American Standard Bible (©1995)
        If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.

        New International Version (©1984)
        If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. ..
        The word is not used in these scriptures in the modern sense of "savage" and very doughtful St Paul would have spoken in a rhetorical manner.
        Last edited by Bill77; 06-01-2010, 06:51 AM.
        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

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        • lavce pelagonski
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 1993

          #19
          bravo this is great stuff
          Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

          „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

          Comment

          • Bratot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2855

            #20
            Not only we have a "Slav" in the 1 Century in Macedonia(Mygdonia) but we have Alexander in Christian motives in Russia in 12th century

            Резной убор имел преимущественно декоративное значение. Он гармонично сочетается с архитектурными формами, не отягощая и не затемняя их. В восточной закомаре северного фасада помещен скульптурный портрет строителя собора - князя Всеволода с сыновьями. В восточной закомаре южного фасада центральное место занимает рельеф, изображающий легенду о вознесении Александра Македонского, - сюжет, связанный с обожествлением царской власти.
            In St. Dimitrija temple dedicated velikomachenikot Dmitrie, who according to Christian tradition appears as a heavenly patron of all warriors, fighting for good and righteousness.
            This is a fragment of the southern facade. Whitestone carving where the central relief takes place of the legendary Alexander of Macedon, king-warrior.
            Built in 1194.








            Вознесение Александра Македонского на небо. Рельеф Дмитриевского собора во Владимире

            Last edited by Bratot; 07-19-2010, 03:18 AM.
            The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

            Comment

            • thessalo-niki
              Banned
              • Jun 2010
              • 191

              #21
              Saint Irene (Great Martyr)

              You seem to be confusing Macedonia with Magedon and 2nd with 4th century.

              Not, that it really matters. Wikipedia is also confused, at least today (19-07-2010) and I have no intention to work on it.
              Post#11 is a whole of a mess, because the Russian link (if you translate it) tells an irrelevant martyrs story.
              ____________________________________________
              Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul
              Last edited by thessalo-niki; 07-19-2010, 06:26 AM.

              Comment

              • Bratot
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2855

                #22
                Originally posted by thessalo-niki View Post
                You seem to be confusing Macedonia with Magedon and 2nd with 4th century.

                Not, that it really matters. Wikipedia is also confused, at least today (19-07-2010) and I have no intention to work on it.
                Post#11 is a whole of a mess, because the Russian link (if you translate it) tells an irrelevant martyrs story.
                ____________________________________________
                Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

                It's definatelly not us to confuse locations since it's all avaiable online:

                She lived in the Balkans in apostolic times, in the town of Magedon where her father Licinius was governor of a small region. Some think that she was a Slav. She was born a pagan of pagan parents.



                Mygdonia (Greek: "Μυγδονία") was an ancient territory, part of Ancient Thrace, later conquered by Macedon, which comprised the plains around Therma (Thessalonica) together with the valleys of Klisali and Besikia, including the area of the Axios river mouth and extending as far east as Lake Bolbe.




                Святая великомученица Ирина пострадала за Христа в конце I или в начале II века. Она была дочерью правителя фракийского города Мигдонии язычника Ликиния и его супруги, также носившей имя Ликиния.

                Скончалась святая мученица Ирина мирно в городе Ефесе, куда была перенесена на облаке из своего родного города Мигдонии.




                It's more probable to be the case of Mygdonia = Мигдонии; Thrace = Фракия

                http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%...B4%D0%B5%D0%BC)



                Where was that Magedon in Persia?

                Мигдония местность в Месопотамии
                (Mygdonia) — древняя местность в восточной Месопотамии, за рекой Хабор, прозванная греками за чрезвычайное плодородие Анфемузией, с городами Низибис, Антиохия, Дарас, Ценье, Сингара и др. Название М., по словам Страбона, возникло в эпоху македонского владычества.
                "Энциклопедический словарь" Ф.А. Брокгауза и И.А. Ефрона

                (Mygdonia) древняя местность в восточной Месопотамии, за рекой Хабор, прозванная греками за чрезвычайное плодородие Анфемузией, с городами Низибис, Антиохия, Дарас, Ценье, Сингара и др. Название М., по словам Страбона, возникло в эпоху…


                Mygdon place in Mesopotamia
                (Mygdonia) - an ancient area in the east of Mesopotamia, across the river Habor, known by the Greeks for the extraordinary fertility Anfemuziey, with cities Nizibis, Antioch, Daras, Tsene, Singara, etc. The name M., according to Strabo, emerged in an era of Macedonian rule.


                Mygdonia was secured as an integral part of the Macedonian Kingdom after Philip II's enthronement. Alexander the Great, in order to honour his Mygdonian army troop, gave the name of Mygdonia to a place in Mesopotamia (Pliny VI, 16).

                General Information: Herodotus description (VII, 123-127) of Xerxes march through Mygdonia constitutes the most ancient reference of the n...
                Last edited by Bratot; 07-19-2010, 07:22 AM.
                The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                Comment

                • Daniel the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 1084

                  #23
                  II CORINTHIANS 9:1-4

                  Now concerning the ministering
                  to the saints, it is superfluous
                  for me to write to you;
                  2 for I know your willingness,
                  about which i boast of you to the
                  Macedonians, that Achaia was ready
                  a year ago; and your zeal has stirred
                  up the majority.
                  3 Yet I have sent the brethren, lest
                  our boasting of you should be in
                  vain in this respect, that, as I said,
                  you may be ready;
                  4 Lest if some Macedonians come
                  with me and find you unprepared,
                  we (not to mention you!) should
                  be ashamed of this confident boasting.
                  Macedonia and Macedonians are mentioned many times in the Bible, and i assume they are mentioned in an ethnic sense.

                  Comment

                  • George S.
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 10116

                    #24
                    macedonia is mentioned many times in the bible & it does make a clear distinction from greece.they are two different countries.
                    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                    GOTSE DELCEV

                    Comment

                    • DraganOfStip
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 1253

                      #25
                      However,I came across a Greek claim that writings in the Acts and saint Paul's travels around this area weren't presented completely but certain parts showing the "Greekness" of the Macedonians in the Bible were deliberately left out by the "Fyromians".Any find on this?
                      ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                      ― George Orwell

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #26
                        i know for a fact that st paul went to athens & greeks they rejected him because they stuck to their myths & gods.But paul travelled to macedonia & he was accepted by the macedonians.There is a distinct difference.It is also said that Mary the mother of jesus travelled to macedonia.If she went to greece it would say so.Also in the bible Lydia it is said was a macedonian, Also luke the apostle was a macedonian there is a distinction.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #27
                          Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
                          However,I came across a Greek claim that writings in the Acts and saint Paul's travels around this area weren't presented completely but certain parts showing the "Greekness" of the Macedonians in the Bible were deliberately left out by the "Fyromians".Any find on this?
                          That is actually true.
                          Tito told me this after he let me fly on his unicorn.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #28
                            Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
                            However,I came across a Greek claim that writings in the Acts and saint Paul's travels around this area weren't presented completely but certain parts showing the "Greekness" of the Macedonians in the Bible were deliberately left out by the "Fyromians".Any find on this?
                            Does this Greek claim specify which particular citations of the Bible have been omitted, that would show the apparent "Greekness" of the Macedonians? Is it implying that Macedonians changed the Bible text from an earlier period, which has subsequently resulted in 'manipulated' translations by all other Christians? Or, if the Macedonians changed just their own Bible, how does it differ from any other Bible in this world? If you haven't already asked these questions (which appears to be the case, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this so-called 'claim'), then I suggest you start being a little more critical when you come across such trash on the internet. Furthermore, avoid using their racist terminology if it isn't required to make a specific point.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • DraganOfStip
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 1253

                              #29
                              Here are some of the quotes they presented:
                              ""The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroea. When they arrived, they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so. Many of them therefore believed; also of the Greek women of honorable estate, and not a few men."Since Beroea (Veria) is a city in Aegean Macedonia,and by mentioning Greek women they consider it a distortion of true quote.Another one:"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia,they came to Thessalonica,where there was a synagogue of the Jews.Paul,as was his custom,went to them,and for 3 Sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures,explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer,and to rise again from the dead,and saying "This Jesus,whom I proclaim to you,is the Christ".Some of them were persuaded,and joined Paul and Silas,of the devout Greeks a great multitude,and not a few of the chief women."Once again they connect Solun with Greeks.""The Apostles Paul and Silas met Greek men and women in Thessaloniki and Beroea"
                              (Act Apost. XVII 4, 12).I don't own a Bible,so I can't verify if this is a case of distorting quotes by them,or just Greek propaganda embedded in their version of the Bible,but any info would be useful.
                              ”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
                              ― George Orwell

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                #30
                                Originally posted by DraganOfStip View Post
                                Since Beroea (Veria) is a city in Aegean Macedonia,and by mentioning Greek women they consider it a distortion of true quote.
                                Check the quotes on the first page of this thread, they are genuine, but what you're saying doesn't make sense. I have never seen anybody make such a claim. Where are you getting your information from?
                                Once again they connect Solun with Greeks.
                                Where it concerns the people of Macedonia, Rome, etc, the term 'Greek' relates to a perceived 'higher' culture as opposed to 'barbarians', or people who are not 'Christian' or 'Jewish'. The reference to 'Greeks' in Solun is no different to that in Rome, see below:
                                I am debtor to both Greeks and barbarians, both to wise and unwise. So as much as in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (Romans, 1)
                                It is all explained on the first page of this thread. You should take the time to read it.
                                I don't own a Bible,so I can't verify if this is a case of distorting quotes by them,or just Greek propaganda embedded in their version of the Bible,but any info would be useful.
                                If you've been resourceful enough to come across this sort of propaganda then I find it a bit puzzling that you haven't been able to locate a Bible online for the sake of verifying these quotes. There are thousands of translations available on the internet, and you only have to go to Google and type in the word 'Bible' to find them.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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