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Old 03-20-2018, 12:54 AM   #11
AMHRC
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[quote=Albo;172523]Since when does this mean that the Albanian language is fully official? Producing multi lingual state documents is far from making a language official ...

Albanian can only be classified as fully offical when it has parity with the Macedonian language at all levels and the constitution states it... Albanian has not become official.. it's use has been endanced.. yes.. and there are also elements of officialisation .. but its far from being and Official language of the state..

You are either being intentionally devious or you have not actually read the new language law. Here are three key points in that "law":

(1) The entire territory of the Republic of Macedonia and in its international relations the Macedonian language and its Cyrillic alphabet is the official language.

(2) Another language spoken by at least 20% of the citizens (Albanian language) is also an official language and its script, in accordance with this law.

(3) In all organs of state power in the Republic of Macedonia, central institutions, public enterprises, agencies, directorates, institutions and organizations, commissions, legal entities that perform public authorizations in accordance with law and other institutions, an official language in addition to the Macedonian language and its script is the language spoken by 20% of the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia and its script, in a manner defined by this Law.


Where as Article 7 in the constitution states that there is only one official state language:


Article 7: The Macedonian language, written using its Cyrillic alphabet, is the official language in the Republic of Macedonia.

Therefore the law is most definitely unconstitutional and the CC shall so rule, if it functions objectively.



That isn only in the competencies of the the Constitutional Court..

Your answer to this, is as above.



Rama was asked to get involved once the Albanian parties couldn't come together and agree to a joint platform after the elections...
This was never. "TIRANA PLATFORM" as the media kept repeating.. the platform and demands were all part of or have been part of the platforms of Albanian parties from Macedonia since independence... Tirana played the middle man to get all parties on board..



Nobody know the total cost as I said.. the money can be found ..if hundreds of millions can be found for statues and boats in projects like "Skopje 2014" then a couple million shouldn't be a problem..

I will not bother repeating what I stated in relation to Rama, it is a fact and that's all there is to it. The cost is definitely going to be exorbitant. Moreover, we do not support the corrupt wastage of money by any government in Macedonia, in any sphere and we have made that clear in numerous articles in our magazine, the MHR Review.


What doesn't make sense exactly??
Its a fact that the term "Albanian Language" doesn't exist in the law!!

This is ridiculous semantics, it exists in law and practice. Moreover, the new law, will make it a co-official language of the state, as is stated in the law itself, we quoted it above.


Exactly the reason why you go by the last STATE OFFICAL FIGURES where Albanians are said to be 25% of the population... Until new figures are available..

As we previously pointed out, official state figures from 2002 are worthless. Unlike you however, we admit that we are making an estimate. Moreover 75% of the population paying for something that is unnecessary and unconstitutional, is still wrong.


I'm sorry but it's not up to you to decide at what level our linguistic rights are "enough" for us on our ancestral land..

We are entitled to full rights for a number or historical and political reasons.. both communities are the landlords and not where one is the landlord and the other the "kiradzija" ( tenant ).. and always must ask for permission for something that is widely available in many European democratic countries.

It is not widely available in Europe, as we already pointed out, Albanians have more more rights than almost any other European minority in this regard and more than enough to lead a normal life. Seeing as you have brought up Europe, then you should know that this law goes far beyond what is specified in the European Framework

The rest of what you wrote in your response does not warrant a response from us, it offered no facts, but simply ethno-centric opinion and irrelevant rhetoric.

Last edited by AMHRC; 03-20-2018 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
You are either being intentionally devious or you have not actually read the new language law. Here are three key points in that "law":*

(1) The entire territory of the Republic of Macedonia and in its international relations the Macedonian language and its Cyrillic alphabet is the official language.
Ok so there you have it.. for a language to be classified fully official Albanian would also be allowed in international relations, all border crossings (not only at border crossings where Albanians are over 20%)

At the local level it would be official within all dealings and documentation of all municipalities eg.(as is Serbian in kosovo - even if zero serbs live in that municipality )and not only central state officers.


So do you agree that there are limitations on the use of Albanian? and its not fully official as your organisation. falsely claim?

Quote:
I will not bother repeating what I stated in relation to Rama, it is a fact and that's all there is to it.*
Its not a fact.. its an opinion.. the language law was part of the OA .. it should have been past by 2004 as was its deadline... at that time Rama was mayor of Tirana and had no idea of Albanian language use rights in RoM..

Quote:
*is definitely going to be exorbitant
You don't know the actual cost.. nobody does... have you been to Macedonia.. you would have seem exorbitant amounts have been spent on many worse projects than this..

Quote:
It is not widely available in Europe, as we already pointed out, Albanians have more more rights than almost any other European minority in this regard and more than enough to lead a normal life. Seeing as you have brought up Europe, then you should know that this law goes far beyond what is specified in the European Framework*
"Almost any European Minority"
Well it depends which example states you want to use in your argument.. if you want to compare with Baltic countries fine.. if you belive that a people shouldn't strive to be truly equal in their ancestral lands thats your opinion..

I belive that in the 21st century to be rallying and beating your chest behind a cause that denies and restricts people who's key unique characteristic is its language is far from anything a respectable human rights organisation should belive in...

I can understand if you have a problem with the legality of the law..fine.. but to deny a people the right to eg.. speak to a doctor in his or her mother tongue on the lands where he/she lives and ancestors have lived which takes nothing away from you using your language in anyway whatsoever is sad..

Again I ask.. would you not support and lobby agains this law if it was applied for Macedonians in neighboring states??
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:05 AM   #13
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1. The proposed law clearly states that Albanian will become "official" along side Macedonian. It clearly states that the language will be used in every sphere within the state, by the state. Your mentioning that it probably wont be used in international relations, is a dishonest attempt to legitimise the law. So we do not agree.

2. And for you to write this, is a really "sad" attempt to deceive the readers of this forum: "but to deny a people the right to eg.. speak to a doctor in his or her mother tongue on the lands where he/she lives and ancestors have lived which takes nothing away from you using your language in anyway whatsoever is sad..".

Albanians already have this right and you know it. Not to mention, that any ethnic Albanian should have no difficulty in using the official language of the state, in a doctor's office or anywhere else.

It is clear that you are not here for an objective discussion. The Albanian government even denies the existence of Macedonians in various parts of Albania, but you have nothing to say about that. Your double standards are plain for everyone to see.

There is no chance of Macedonian becoming an official state language in any other country and you know it. However, if this proposed new law is accepted by the Constitutional Court, then of course, one could argue that all minority languages in all countries should be accepted as official state languages, to be used by the state in all spheres except international relations.

But the point is that it is not practical, it leads to dysfunction and division. It is the lot of all minorities to learn at least two languages - their mother tongue and the official language of the state they reside in. That is actually European policy, for the good reason that it leads to the development of a more functional and integrated society.

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Old 03-22-2018, 06:00 AM   #14
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Albo, please never use Kosovo as an example of how to do things. Whatever rights Serbs have is a joke and a nod to the gross violation to the sovereignty of the Serbian nation.

Macedonia is not Serbia. Albanians have tried to portray it as such. But the reality is totally different. And you know it. So why play this game here?
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:05 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Albo, please never use Kosovo as an example of how to do things. Whatever rights Serbs have is a joke and a nod to the gross violation to the sovereignty of the Serbian nation.

Macedonia is not Serbia. Albanians have tried to portray it as such. But the reality is totally different. And you know it. So why play this game here?
Albanians complain all the time that the serbs get too many "rights" even though they are a small percentage of the population. What a hypocritical shit show lol
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mklion View Post
Albanians complain all the time that the serbs get too many "rights" even though they are a small percentage of the population. What a hypocritical shit show lol
The shiptari are a joke and the proof is the clown that loiters aimlessly around here...How can you possibly take the shiptari seriously when they whine incessantly about their downtrodden human rights or their lack of economic prosperity when they already have Albania and Kosovo under their own control and yet both places are cesspools of human rights abuses, rampant corruption, lawlessness and economic basket cases...

I'd just love to see a single beam of light emanating from either Albania, Kosovo or the shiptar community in Macedonia to lead us all out of the darkness...because this is exactly how this deluded dickhead likes to portray the situation, as some sort of blight against his people at the hands of Macedonians and Serbs.

The Kosovo shiptari have (had) a unique opportunity to lead by example but they've chosen the more lucrative path of narco-commerce, organ harvesting, child prostitution rings, medieval blood feuds and other barbaric evils...rather than mundane pursuits like 21st century nation building and upholding the rule of law...
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:28 PM   #17
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To be honest, out of all the ethnic groups in the Balkans, the Albanians are by far the most nationalistic and radical of the lot, nobody compares to them and their backwardness.

I'm not saying all the Albanians but many in Kosovo practice idolatry with their UCK commanders and their fascination with Guns and paramilitary, crime and other gangs.

Their nationalism/radicalism is at it's peak, it's a scary thought that their institutions promote these types of education.
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