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Old 12-28-2008, 05:53 AM   #51
Sarafot
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Here are some sources if you would like to chek them SoM:
-Solovejev:Zastava Stefana Dušana nad Skopljem,god 1339,GSND,Skopje1929
-Jireček:Istorija Srba II
-Stjepan Antoljak:Pomošni istorski nauki,Skopje,1966
Mihajlo Dinić-Relja Ohmučevič.zbornik radova Visntiološkog instituta,Beograd,1966
-About Relja tray,Relja Krilatica,HRelja Ohmučevič-Otađbina,
.....ask for much more?
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:45 AM   #52
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Slovak,

The name of Marko's grandfather is recorded by some writers as Mrnjava, but his name when formalised in Serbian is Mrnjavchevich, and not simply Mrnjavich.

Is it common in the Illyrian dialects for the suffix of CHE to be present? If Mrnjava was a Macedonian name, saying Mrnjavche would be quite common, as in other names such as Donche (Done), Borche (Boris), Stevche (Stevan), etc.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:30 AM   #53
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Bump.

Slovak, can you help us with the above? Is 'che' common in Serbian and/or Croatian?
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:41 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sarafot View Post
Here are some sources if you would like to chek them SoM:
-Solovejev:Zastava Stefana Dušana nad Skopljem,god 1339,GSND,Skopje1929
-Jireček:Istorija Srba II
-Stjepan Antoljak:Pomošni istorski nauki,Skopje,1966
Mihajlo Dinić-Relja Ohmučevič.zbornik radova Visntiološkog instituta,Beograd,1966
-About Relja tray,Relja Krilatica,HRelja Ohmučevič-Otađbina,
.....ask for much more?
Sarafot, if you are still with us can you post the texts of any of the sources that you cite above? Apologies for the late request.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:17 AM   #55
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i like the che suffix somche
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:13 AM   #56
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The 'che' suffix may be used in one variant or another among other Slavic languages, but it is most common and distinctive in Macedonian, for a range of nouns. This is why I wanted to see how contemporary documents refer to Marko and that of his ancestry from Bosnia. Was it only in use for Mrnjavche after Volkasin's move to Macedonia, or before that?
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:09 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
If you can find the book and scan some pages to post here it would be great.

I am not sure about how significant the legend and legacy of King Marko is with all Macedonians, even though he ruled nearly all of Macedonia. I know in my family we were told stories about him, and he is rightfully considered as a king of Macedonia and consequently 'ours'. The 19th century Macedonian writer Kuzman Shapkarev said that his father (or grandfather) told him stories about our history consisting mainly of two characters, Alexander the Great and King Marko.
I hope the following excerpt from Academic B.R. sheds some more light on the topic:

Blazhe Ristovski: ….”The social, political and confessional status of the Macedonian people in Shariah Turkey further reinforced the contrast between the oppressed raya and kaurins, on the one hand, and the “true-believing” aghas and beys, on the other. This in turn aroused interest in the question and history of the Ottoman conquest of Macedonia, and animated the cult of King Mark’s kingdom in oral folklore....” Blazhe Ristovski: Macedonia And The Macedonian People

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How about the other Macedonians on this forum, does King Marko have a place in our history as far as your a) upbringing, and b) current way of thought are concerned?
My upbringing was disrupted by emigration at a young age and I don't recollect much being retold about him. As for my current way of thought for the era, I would say that the Battle of Maritsa should be reclaimed as, in the main, a Macedonian endevour and as a very significant historical event for Europe.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:21 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Indigen
I would say that the Battle of Maritsa should be reclaimed as, in the main, a Macedonian endevour and as a very significant historical event for Europe.
I completely agree.
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:07 AM   #59
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I don’t know much about King Marko. that’s why the posts so far have been fascinating. Without trying to be facetious or anything I think his fortress was in Markukule Varos and Prilep came later at least from what I can remember my dad saying. Prilep derives its name from the word prilepeno as in stuck (sticky) next to. As I have heard it Prilep is the stuck on to Varos but then as the population grew Prilep became the city. Not a great much to add but its what ive heard.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:09 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
If you can find the book and scan some pages to post here it would be great.

I am not sure about how significant the legend and legacy of King Marko is with all Macedonians, even though he ruled nearly all of Macedonia. I know in my family we were told stories about him, and he is rightfully considered as a king of Macedonia and consequently 'ours'. The 19th century Macedonian writer Kuzman Shapkarev said that his father (or grandfather) told him stories about our history consisting mainly of two characters, Alexander the Great and King Marko.

How about the other Macedonians on this forum, does King Marko have a place in our history as far as your a) upbringing, and b) current way of thought are concerned?
Yes Marko is a part of our history. For historical reasons Marko and his family ruled in Macedonia. Let's put ethnicity aside for one second from the modern point of view and try to view it as these characters did in medieval times.
From a personal point of view my father told me about Marko when I was a child. His father told him of Marko, etc. If anything the Marko legend is a centuries long conscription to the past of our forefathers. Was Marko's legend shared by others? Absolutely. The Serbs today celebrate him as a Serbian Prince. But these imperial titles like "Serbian King" or "Bulgarian Tsar" have no real ethnic value to them.
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