Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his Macedonian ancestry

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Daskalot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 4345

    #16
    Sir I know exactly why you posted this map.

    We appear as "Bulgars" apparently, why? The composer of this map might have had a pro-Bulgar bias.

    But the interesting thing is that it shows "Greeks" as a clear minority in the part of Macedonia that was incorporated into the Hellenic Kingdom with the use of force, some would call that an occupation.

    Thus the Greek myth about Macedonia is exactly that, a MYTH.


    It is good to see that you at least recognize the label "Turk" as a religious label and not an Ethnic one, now apply the same to the religious label of "Greek" and we are about to have a nice and fulfilling debate.
    Macedonian Truth Organisation

    Comment

    • TerraNova
      Banned
      • Nov 2008
      • 473

      #17
      Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
      Sir I know exactly why you posted this map.

      We appear as "Bulgars" apparently, why? The composer of this map might have had a pro-Bulgar bias.

      But the interesting thing is that it shows "Greeks" as a clear minority in the part of Macedonia that was incorporated into the Hellenic Kingdom with the use of force, some would call that an occupation.

      Thus the Greek myth about Macedonia is exactly that, a MYTH.
      Daskalot...i posted this map,because it has a dual distinction-Ethnicity and Religion.
      So Turks are distinguished from non-turkish speaking Muslims.

      If i wanted to show a map were Macedonians appear as Bulgarians i could post some 40 different other maps!
      Am i clear?

      As for who was who minority ...compare "Bulgarians" and Greeks....(note that according to 1919 Neiully Treaty almost all Kilkis and Serres Exarchists were exchanged with Greeks of Black coast and Eastern Rumelia.)
      So what's left..?
      Are we looking at the same image??

      Last edited by TerraNova; 12-12-2008, 11:47 AM.

      Comment

      • VMRO
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1462

        #18
        Originally posted by Giorikas View Post
        Kindly point out where the Macedonians are ... You all seem to talk about anything and anybody but Macedonians. Whoever thinks Ataturk was Macedonian is ever more insane then I could image. Right of self identification ...? Wasn't that the magical word here ?

        Attaturk cannot be pure Macedonian, it has to be noted that many Turks had non Turkish mothers (Christian mothers).
        Last edited by VMRO; 12-12-2008, 12:11 PM.
        Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

        Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

        Comment

        • Pelister
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2742

          #19
          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
          Thanks Pelister, that is some interesting information. Thinking of the whole Ottoman picture collectively, with regard to the Christian populations in the Balkans, it would seem that the Serbs, Albanians and Greeks were the greatest Turkish servants, and indeed aided the Turk in his objective of maintaining control of SE Europe.
          • Serbs entering the elite ranks of the Ottoman military en masse voluntarily and via the Janissary corps
          • Albanians offering their services as sellouts to their faith and rag-tag mercenaries that were sent into villages to complete 'mop up' operations involving the burning of villages, rape and murder of villagers
          • Greeks betraying all other Christians by manipulating the Orthodox Church to their advantage through their cosy friendship with their Turkish masters.........


          Apparently all big patriotic nations today.....
          The Serbs were subjects of the Ottomans - they had been conquered but were not beaten.

          They were good fighters, so naturally the Ottomans relied heavily on them.

          Actually, in all my reading over the centuries I don't think I have come across any clear Greeks in the Ottoman military ranks.

          In the 17th century the Ottomans put down a rebellion in the Peloponese and Attica, but it was a Slavic speaking tribe, and Albanians they were fighting.

          Some Serbs (there are a few in the 15th and 16th centuries, who rose to the highest position in the Empire, that of Grand Vizier, second only to the Sultan himself, never forgot their roots and were actually in a position to help their own people (which they did).

          Comment

          • Daskalot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 4345

            #20
            Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
            Daskalot...i posted this map,because it has a dual distinction-Ethnicity and Religion.
            So Turks are distinguished from non-turkish speaking Muslims.

            If i wanted to show a map were Macedonians appear as Bulgarians i could post some 40 different other maps!
            Am i clear?

            As for who was who minority ...compare "Bulgarians" and Greeks....(note that according to 1919 Neiully Treaty almost all Kilkis and Serres Exarchists were exchanged with Greeks of Black coast and Eastern Rumelia.)
            So what's left..?
            Are we looking at the same image??

            I see that you are applying the current borders of the socalled "province" of Macedonia, they were not the borders of Macedonia as of according to the Macedonians themselves.

            Here is a map made by the Macedonians in 1913, and you will notice that the Vlach and Arvanite inhabited part of Katherini is not included.




            CLICK HERE TO VIEW A LARGE VERSION OF KARTA MAKEDONIIA 1913
            Macedonian Truth Organisation

            Comment

            • TerraNova
              Banned
              • Nov 2008
              • 473

              #21
              Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
              I see that you are applying the current borders of the socalled "province" of Macedonia, they were not the borders of Macedonia as of according to the Macedonians themselves.

              Here is a map made by the Macedonians in 1913, and you will notice that the Vlach and Arvanite inhabited part of Katherini is not included.

              CLICK HERE KARTA MAKEDONIIA 1913
              So what? I still can't see your majority in Greek Macedonia.

              As for the map,do you thing it includes any kind of homogeneous population??? It's just a geographical region and nothing more.

              PS-Look at VMRO'S member Avatar-The borders of his Macedonia include Pieria...You must agree between yourselves ,you want Katerini or not?
              Last edited by TerraNova; 12-13-2008, 05:45 AM.

              Comment

              • Daskalot
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 4345

                #22
                Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                So what? I still can't see your majority in Greek Macedonia.

                As for the map,do you thing it includes any kind of homogeneous population??? It's just a geographical region and nothing more.

                PS-Look at VMRO'S member Avatar-The borders of his Macedonia include Pieria...You must agree between yourselves ,you want Katerini or not?

                It looks pretty homogeneous to me, do you notice the difference of coloring which distances Macedonia from its neighbors, notice also the title of the map, "On the program of the Macedonian people".

                I ceartainly think that Dimitrija Dimov Chupovski had a much better knowledge of the borders of Macedonia in 1913 then the maker of Vmro's avatar had.



                You say that it is a geographical region then why is the part now in Greece the "REAL" part and the only to be named Macedonia?

                Your parts of Macedonia as you yourselves have named them are;

                1.
                Dytiki Makedonia (West Macedonia)
                2.
                Kentriki Makedonia (Central Macedonia)
                3.
                Anatoliki Makedonia kai Thraki (East Macedonia and Thrace)

                As we can see all of the names have a geographical definer and one of them is a complex name with the inclusion of Thrace in it.

                So our geographical part is the Republic of Macedonia CLEARLY SEPARATED FROM YOURS WHICH HAVE CLEAR GEOGRAPHICAL AND COMPLEX NAMES, so where is the name problem?
                Macedonian Truth Organisation

                Comment

                • TerraNova
                  Banned
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 473

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                  It looks pretty homogeneous to me, do you notice the difference of coloring which distances Macedonia from its neighbors, notice also the title of the map, "On the program of the Macedonian people".

                  I ceartainly think that Dimitrija Dimov Chupovski had a much better knowledge of the borders of Macedonia in 1913 then the maker of Vmro's avatar had.
                  The different colors of the map DO NOT define different people-It's NOT an ethnographical map! Green and pink are Ottoman regions(pink is what the author defines as Macedonia)
                  You say that it is a geographical region then why is the part now in Greece the "REAL" part and the only to be named Macedonia?

                  Your parts of Macedonia as you yourselves have named them are;

                  1.
                  Dytiki Makedonia (West Macedonia)
                  2.
                  Kentriki Makedonia (Central Macedonia)
                  3.
                  Anatoliki Makedonia kai Thraki (East Macedonia and Thrace)

                  As we can see all of the names have a geographical definer and one of them is a complex name with the inclusion of Thrace in it.

                  So our geographical part is the Republic of Macedonia CLEARLY SEPARATED FROM YOURS WHICH HAVE CLEAR GEOGRAPHICAL AND COMPLEX NAMES, so where is the name problem?
                  You can call it Republic of North Macedonia then,since it's near 37% of Geographical Macedonia.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    #24
                    No, the fact that it is a Republic is enough distinction and indication of difference. No state should ever have to negotiate their name against a mere group of regions. It is none of your business what our state is called.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • TerraNova
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 473

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      No, the fact that it is a Republic is enough distinction and indication of difference. No state should ever have to negotiate their name against a mere group of regions. It is none of your business what our state is called.
                      Well ok..but you ll stay out of EU and NATO forever.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #26
                        Dangle that carrot to your Albanian cousins, Macedonia will decide her own fate.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Daskalot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 4345

                          #27
                          Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                          The different colors of the map DO NOT define different people-It's NOT an ethnographical map! Green and pink are Ottoman regions(pink is what the author defines as Macedonia)


                          You can call it Republic of North Macedonia then,since it's near 37% of Geographical Macedonia.
                          Exactly why should we be named according to your choice of nomenclature(read East- Central- and West) we are the only republic, do your parts constitute Republics on there own as well? If so then we will name ourselves accordingly, otherwise we are fine as it is.
                          Macedonian Truth Organisation

                          Comment

                          • Pelister
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2742

                            #28
                            Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                            Well ok..but you ll stay out of EU and NATO forever.

                            I hope so.

                            NATO will eventually break up or morph into something else.

                            Ireland is a perfect example of how amazingly prosperous a State can be - so close to Europe, and NOT be a part of the E.U>

                            The E.U dangle money in front of state to try and get them to reliquish some of their sovereignty to foriegn control.

                            The Macedonians will eventually wake up to this.

                            Comment

                            • TerraNova
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 473

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                              I hope so.

                              NATO will eventually break up or morph into something else.

                              Ireland is a perfect example of how amazingly prosperous a State can be - so close to Europe, and NOT be a part of the E.U>

                              Comment

                              • Daskalot
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 4345

                                #30
                                Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                                Pelister, Ireland is a part of the EU, Norway and Switzerland are not, one has oil the other banks.
                                Macedonian Truth Organisation

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X