Australian Nanny State

[Vangelovski]

I'm neither a smoker or a gambler, but I'm disgusted by the Labor/Green Government's gradual creation of a 'nanny state'. Its latest Bills include plain packaging for tobacco products and pre-commitment for pokie machines. Although I wouldn't personally take up smoking or gambling, I don't think we need retarded politicians telling us what we can and can't do.

I'm wondering how actual smokers and those that play pokies feel about these Bills...?

[Risto the Great]

Well, I think successive governments created the pokie problem. Something needs to be done about this problem.
I don't smoke but I think the plain packaging of cigarettes is ridiculous.
I rate the carbon tax as the ultimate slap in the face.

[blackcactus]

When I hear someone use the emotive term 'nanny state', I instantly think it's because they don't give a shite about others

Rationally it's better to look at each piece of legislation on it's own, and debate the merits of each separately

[Vangelovski]

When I hear someone use the emotive term 'nanny state', I instantly think it's because they don't give a shite about others

Rationally it's better to look at each piece of legislation on it's own, and debate the merits of each separately

'Nanny state' isn't an emotive term. Its a political term that denotes paternalism - i.e., a handful of political elites that think they can determine how private citizens live their lives.

How does "caring about others" translate into telling them what to do or making choices for them?

[Vangelovski]

Well, I think successive governments created the pokie problem. Something needs to be done about this problem.
I don't smoke but I think the plain packaging of cigarettes is ridiculous.
I rate the carbon tax as the ultimate slap in the face.

I understand that gambling is a problem, but ultimately, who has the right to tell you what to do with your money?

[Risto the Great]

I understand that gambling is a problem, but ultimately, who has the right to tell you what to do with your money?

I accept this. But the government is a major participant in this industry and will have to accept a portion of blame. Pubs were dying in South Australia prior to the introduction of pokies. Everything has changed since then and the community suffers as a consequence. There prevalence (certainly in South Australia) is quite unnatural.

If we compare the cigarettes with the pokies, I would say the nanny state issue might present itself when the pokie machines are not allowed to make noise, have no pictures on them (other than photos of destitute families begging on the streets) and have win ratios plastered all over them.

Either way, smoking is bad and gambling is bad. It comes down to personal choice, but there are social consequences that extend beyond the idiot exercising their right to kill themselves slowly.

Prostitution is still illegal here in SA. Some of the things I do in my business might technically fall into that category.

[Vangelovski]

RtG,

Of course there are social consquences that extend beyond the idiot that gambles for example. But on what authority does the state have a right to intervene and where does it end? I think there are many more appropriate societal actors that should work towards education rather than direct state intervention in an area that they have no authority to deal with and which essentially is a violation of natural law.

There's much wider implications on state intervention, particularly in relation to the Macedonian cause.

[makedonche]

I see it as an infringement on my right to choose, much like ploiticians telling me I must go to a referrendum to determine whether they can change what I call myself, when I've already decided!

[Vangelovski]

I see it as an infringement on my right to choose, much like ploiticians telling me I must go to a referrendum to determine whether they can change what I call myself, when I've already decided!

Basically the same thing!

[EgejskaMakedonia]

RtG,

Of course there are social consquences that extend beyond the idiot that gambles for example. But on what authority does the state have a right to intervene and where does it end? I think there are many more appropriate societal actors that should work towards education rather than direct state intervention in an area that they have no authority to deal with and which essentially is a violation of natural law.

There's much wider implications on state intervention, particularly in relation to the Macedonian cause.

Although I generally agree with your contention, there are different ways one could view such an issue.
The comparison that immediately comes to mind is illegal drugs. There is no doubt that legislation on drugs is necessary. The detrimental effects of drugs on the individual and society deem it absolutely vital for restrictions to be put in place, regardless of where an individual may want to spend their money.
In some ways, gambling and smoking can have similar repercussions. In some circumstances, this can cause an internal decline of the individual, as well as influencing external factors such as family, friends, etc.

I don't think it's necessarily right for the government to determine where the public can spend their money, but I'm sure some potential 'addicts' would be thankful down the road. Easy access to such things will only feed their addiction.

But there is no doubt that Victoria, in particular, has become a 'nanny state.' Some laws are beyond ridiculous, which seek to threaten the democratic values of our nation, that being, to have the freedom to do what you want, when you want, and where you want. The Victorian Government is increasingly edging their way more and more into the 'private' lives of the people.

[Vangelovski]

Although I generally agree with your contention, there are different ways one could view such an issue.
The comparison that immediately comes to mind is illegal drugs. There is no doubt that legislation on drugs is necessary. The detrimental effects of drugs on the individual and society deem it absolutely vital for restrictions to be put in place, regardless of where an individual may want to spend their money.
In some ways, gambling and smoking can have similar repercussions. In some circumstances, this can cause an internal decline of the individual, as well as influencing external factors such as family, friends, etc.

I don't think it's necessarily right for the government to determine where the public can spend their money, but I'm sure some potential 'addicts' would be thankful down the road. Easy access to such things will only feed their addiction.

But there is no doubt that Victoria, in particular, has become a 'nanny state.' Some laws are beyond ridiculous, which seek to threaten the democratic values of our nation, that being, to have the freedom to do what you want, when you want, and where you want. The Victorian Government is increasingly edging their way more and more into the 'private' lives of the people.

I wouldn't have anything against a government attempting to educate people with the facts surrounding various issues (actual facts not emotionally driven propaganda), but to actually make laws that make the choice for individuals is a crime in itself.

[Vangelovski]

The Preventative Health Taskforce released its report on 1 September 2009. With 122 recommendations, it provides a blueprint for the Nanny State in Australia.

New laws

1. Food and beverages classification
2. Junk food if self-regulation fails
3. Raise price of tobacco
4. Tobacco promotion ban
5. Tobacco out of sight in retail outlets
6. Plain packaging on cigarette packages
7. Ban smoking in public places "where children are likely to be exposed"
8. Ban smoking in cars
9. Second-hand smoke in workplaces, incl. outdoors
10. Second-hand smoke outside, "where people gather or move in close proximity"
11. Increase size of pack warnings
12. Tobacco brand names
13. further protections against sales to minors
14. Second-hand smoke outside, "where people gather or move in close proximity"
15. Ban vending machines sales, the internet, and at hospitality & other social venues
16. Nationally consistent liquor outlet opening times and density
17. Nationally consistent accreditation requirements for liquor licences
18. Nationally consistent late night outlet laws
19. Nationally consistent alcohol serving and training
20. Alcohol promotion regulation if voluntary regulation inadequate
21. Alcohol advertising during live sport broadcasts
22. Alcohol advertising during high adolescent/child viewing
23. Alcohol sponsorship of sport and cultural events
24. Alcohol promotion regulation
25. Alcohol availability restrictions, indigenous communities
26. Liquor licence hours restrictions in indigenous communities

New Programs and Frameworks

27. National Framework for Active Living
28. National Food and Nutrition Framework
29. National program to support Health and Physical Education in National Curriculum
30. Expand after-school health programs
31. Healthy and Active Families initiative
32. National Healthy Community Leadership and Education Program
33. Social Marketing Strategy
34. Multi-component community-based obesity programs in low SES communities
35. Multi-component community-based obesity programs in indigenous communities
36. National workplace health leadership program, and best practice guidelines
37. National accord for workplace programs and risk assessment
38. National program to alert pregnant and pre-pregnant women of dangers of excessive weight
39. National strategy to combat illicit tobacco trade
40. Multi-component community-based tobacco control projects
41. Develop further Framework Convention on Tobacco Control
42. Alcohol Diversion Programs, indigenous communities
43. Network of Alcohol-related programs
44. National Strategic Framework for preventative health research

New bureaucracies

45. Prime Ministers Council for Active Living
46. Healthy Food Compact
47. Regulatory body for required disclosure to government, communication to consumers and emissions
48. National Tobacco Strategy Steering Committee
49. National Prevention Agency
50. Preventative health strategic research fund
51. National preventative health research register

Recommendations

52. Research Program to inform National active living framework on economic issues
53. Commission review of economic policies and tax systems towards encouraging healthier food consumption
54. Work with industry towards food labelling
55. Voluntary industry scorecard
56. Nationally agreed accreditation standards for food labelling
57. Research: program to strengthen evidence of effective workplace health promotion
58. Research: legislative changes to encourage workplace health programs
59. Research: feasibility of grants and tax incentives for employees to encourage achievement of benchmarks
60. Health and PE in National Curriculum
61. Establish system to monitor policy of minimum 2 hours physical activity per week from K-10.
62. Research: How teachers promote health
63. Community Intervention Trials
64. Local Government Partnerships to encourage local councils to adopt health guidelines
65. Research: into effectiveness of the self-regulation of junk food
66. Expand allied health workforce
67. Clinical guidelines for allied health workforce
68. Carry out National Risk Factor Survey in 2010
69. National Children's Nutrition and Physical Activity Survey in 2012
70. Research: national research agenda for obesity
71. Research: ongoing research into obesity into indigenous communities
72. International agreements to combat illicit tobacco trade
73. Social marketing campaigns against tobacco use
74. Research into warning label effectiveness
75. Tobacco retailers licensing regime
76. Research: possibility of legal action by government and others against tobacco companies
77. All health services smoke-free, incl. Grounds
78. Patients quizzed about smoking status routinely
79. More money for: extra Quitline resources
80. Nicotine replacement therapy more affordable
81. Social marketing campaigns for indigenous smokers
82. Training in smoking cessation advice for indigenous health workers
83. Tobacco Control Workers in indigenous communities
84. Promotion to health professionals for Quitline
85. Poster advertising in disadvantaged communities
86. Increase efforts for anti-smoking for people with mental illness
87. Prisons and state-funded human services agencies smoke-free
88. Target parents to convey message to children to not smoke
89. Make smoking classifiable in movies
90. Constant alerts to public about dangers, and about new research findings
91. Tobacco surveillance system to assess whether anti-smoking targets are being met
92. Increase resources to develop and implement best practice for laws and regulations related to alcohol
93. Develop business case for COAG nation partnership on policing and enforcement
94. More money for: Drink-driving monitoring
95. More money for: Licence enforcement
96. More money for: Annual review of licences
97. Demerit points for licences
98. More money for: monitoring liquor laws
99. Social marketing strategy
100. Campaign to "build a national consensus on healthy alcohol consumption"
101. Campaign for awareness of alcohol guidelines
102. Campaign to de-normalise intoxication
103. Campaign to raise awareness of consequences of alcohol
104. Research: effectiveness of voluntary approach to alcohol promotion regulation
105. Research: alcohol modelling
106. Advocate: alcohol floor price
107. More money for: alcohol campaigns
108. More money for: healthcare providers, indigenous communities
109. More money for: staff training, indigenous communities
110. More money for: treatment programs, indigenous communities
111. More money for: coordinated case management, indigenous communities
112. More money for: responsible serving of alcohol provision
113. Community groups of indigenous to promote alcohol responsibility
114. Research: alcohol consumption, indigenous communities
115. More money for: health care for alcohol problems
116. More money for: health care for alcohol problems, disadvantaged groups
117. Nationally consistent principles regarding alcohol to minors without parental consent
118. Promotion of early drinking age discussion
119. Community support for parents and alcohol
120. Research: Alcohol use in families and with children
121. Research: nationally consistent collection and management of alcohol wholesale sales data
122. Research: National indicators on alcohol consumption

http://preventativehealth.org.au/internet/preventativehealth/publishing.nsf/Content/national-preventative-health-strategy-1lp

[Volk]

The Preventative Health Taskforce released its report on 1 September 2009. With 122 recommendations, it provides a blueprint for the Nanny State in Australia.

New laws

1. Food and beverages classification
2. Junk food if self-regulation fails
3. Raise price of tobacco
4. Tobacco promotion ban
5. Tobacco out of sight in retail outlets
6. Plain packaging on cigarette packages
7. Ban smoking in public places "where children are likely to be exposed"
8. Ban smoking in cars
9. Second-hand smoke in workplaces, incl. outdoors
10. Second-hand smoke outside, "where people gather or move in close proximity"
11. Increase size of pack warnings
12. Tobacco brand names
13. further protections against sales to minors
14. Second-hand smoke outside, "where people gather or move in close proximity"
15. Ban vending machines sales, the internet, and at hospitality & other social venues
16. Nationally consistent liquor outlet opening times and density
17. Nationally consistent accreditation requirements for liquor licences
18. Nationally consistent late night outlet laws
19. Nationally consistent alcohol serving and training
20. Alcohol promotion regulation if voluntary regulation inadequate
21. Alcohol advertising during live sport broadcasts
22. Alcohol advertising during high adolescent/child viewing
23. Alcohol sponsorship of sport and cultural events
24. Alcohol promotion regulation
25. Alcohol availability restrictions, indigenous communities
26. Liquor licence hours restrictions in indigenous communities

New Programs and Frameworks

27. National Framework for Active Living
28. National Food and Nutrition Framework
29. National program to support Health and Physical Education in National Curriculum
30. Expand after-school health programs
31. Healthy and Active Families initiative
32. National Healthy Community Leadership and Education Program
33. Social Marketing Strategy
34. Multi-component community-based obesity programs in low SES communities
35. Multi-component community-based obesity programs in indigenous communities
36. National workplace health leadership program, and best practice guidelines
37. National accord for workplace programs and risk assessment
38. National program to alert pregnant and pre-pregnant women of dangers of excessive weight
39. National strategy to combat illicit tobacco trade
40. Multi-component community-based tobacco control projects
41. Develop further Framework Convention on Tobacco Control
42. Alcohol Diversion Programs, indigenous communities
43. Network of Alcohol-related programs
44. National Strategic Framework for preventative health research

New bureaucracies

45. Prime Ministers Council for Active Living
46. Healthy Food Compact
47. Regulatory body for required disclosure to government, communication to consumers and emissions
48. National Tobacco Strategy Steering Committee
49. National Prevention Agency
50. Preventative health strategic research fund
51. National preventative health research register

Recommendations

52. Research Program to inform National active living framework on economic issues
53. Commission review of economic policies and tax systems towards encouraging healthier food consumption
54. Work with industry towards food labelling
55. Voluntary industry scorecard
56. Nationally agreed accreditation standards for food labelling
57. Research: program to strengthen evidence of effective workplace health promotion
58. Research: legislative changes to encourage workplace health programs
59. Research: feasibility of grants and tax incentives for employees to encourage achievement of benchmarks
60. Health and PE in National Curriculum
61. Establish system to monitor policy of minimum 2 hours physical activity per week from K-10.
62. Research: How teachers promote health
63. Community Intervention Trials
64. Local Government Partnerships to encourage local councils to adopt health guidelines
65. Research: into effectiveness of the self-regulation of junk food
66. Expand allied health workforce
67. Clinical guidelines for allied health workforce
68. Carry out National Risk Factor Survey in 2010
69. National Children's Nutrition and Physical Activity Survey in 2012
70. Research: national research agenda for obesity
71. Research: ongoing research into obesity into indigenous communities
72. International agreements to combat illicit tobacco trade
73. Social marketing campaigns against tobacco use
74. Research into warning label effectiveness
75. Tobacco retailers licensing regime
76. Research: possibility of legal action by government and others against tobacco companies
77. All health services smoke-free, incl. Grounds
78. Patients quizzed about smoking status routinely
79. More money for: extra Quitline resources
80. Nicotine replacement therapy more affordable
81. Social marketing campaigns for indigenous smokers
82. Training in smoking cessation advice for indigenous health workers
83. Tobacco Control Workers in indigenous communities
84. Promotion to health professionals for Quitline
85. Poster advertising in disadvantaged communities
86. Increase efforts for anti-smoking for people with mental illness
87. Prisons and state-funded human services agencies smoke-free
88. Target parents to convey message to children to not smoke
89. Make smoking classifiable in movies
90. Constant alerts to public about dangers, and about new research findings
91. Tobacco surveillance system to assess whether anti-smoking targets are being met
92. Increase resources to develop and implement best practice for laws and regulations related to alcohol
93. Develop business case for COAG nation partnership on policing and enforcement
94. More money for: Drink-driving monitoring
95. More money for: Licence enforcement
96. More money for: Annual review of licences
97. Demerit points for licences
98. More money for: monitoring liquor laws
99. Social marketing strategy
100. Campaign to "build a national consensus on healthy alcohol consumption"
101. Campaign for awareness of alcohol guidelines
102. Campaign to de-normalise intoxication
103. Campaign to raise awareness of consequences of alcohol
104. Research: effectiveness of voluntary approach to alcohol promotion regulation
105. Research: alcohol modelling
106. Advocate: alcohol floor price
107. More money for: alcohol campaigns
108. More money for: healthcare providers, indigenous communities
109. More money for: staff training, indigenous communities
110. More money for: treatment programs, indigenous communities
111. More money for: coordinated case management, indigenous communities
112. More money for: responsible serving of alcohol provision
113. Community groups of indigenous to promote alcohol responsibility
114. Research: alcohol consumption, indigenous communities
115. More money for: health care for alcohol problems
116. More money for: health care for alcohol problems, disadvantaged groups
117. Nationally consistent principles regarding alcohol to minors without parental consent
118. Promotion of early drinking age discussion
119. Community support for parents and alcohol
120. Research: Alcohol use in families and with children
121. Research: nationally consistent collection and management of alcohol wholesale sales data
122. Research: National indicators on alcohol consumption

http://preventativehealth.org.au/int...h-strategy-1lp

Exactly which points dont you agree with?

[Vangelovski]

Exactly which points dont you agree with?

Nearly all of them. Now go and do whatever it is someone is telling you to do.

[Volk]

Nearly all of them. Now go and do whatever it is someone is telling you to do.

There are plenty of examples of whats wrong with society, including programs for mass control.

What you have outlined is a social strategy to reduce smoking and alcohol abuse....

Great work hero..