Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Exposing Lies and Propaganda

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-25-2019, 04:11 AM   #411
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,117
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
Page 184, or fifth page of pdf file, Footnote 15:
https://banatulsarbesc1.files.wordpr...kola-minov.pdf

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) According the references of Prof. Keith Brown, “Turk” implied official persona – functionary, “Grecian” meant – merchant, “Bulgarian” – villager, farmer and “Vlach” – shepherd, rancher.

“When the Macedonian peasants use the term Bulgar, they mean by it: 1) people of a simple and hard-working life, 2) the bulk of simple labourers who speak Slavic, in contrast to the non-Slavs, the Greeks and the Turks, who are above this majority and consider them inferior. The first meaning is the main one: the word “Bulgar” denotes in the first case a simple mode of life, work and thought.”

- (Keith Brown, „The Past in Question, modern Macedonia and the Uncertainties of Nation“, p. 59)

2) “All peasants were Macedonians; shepherds were Vlachs; merchants and bureaucrats were Greeks; and the high administrators were Muslims.” - (“Minorities and mother country imagery” By Gerald L. Gold, Memorial University of Newfoundland. Institute of Social and Economic Research, p. 60.)

3) "During the Ottoman period, therefore, terms like 'Greek' or 'Bulgarian' were not used to designate different ethnic or national groups, but rather broad socio-cultural categories" (Danforth 1995:59)
- (Mirca Madianou , “Mediating the Nation“, p. 30, is Lecturer and Director of Studies in Social and Political Sciences, Lucy Cavendish College, University of Cambridge)

4) Trajan Stojanovic in his book "Balkan Worlds: The First and Last Europe", p.143 again underlines that the term "Bulgarians" were called the farmers and "Vlachs" the shepherds.

5) The Bulgarian member of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences Vasil Drumev wrote: "And we've began to learn Greek, to speak in Greek, to call ourselves Greeks. And there is still among us respected Bulgarians, who are grecizing, who speak .. in Greek, who hate the Bulgarians.”

6) The Traveler Sir John Mandeville, in 1357 travelling through the Balkans wrote that Serbia is a land of Bougiers, while Belgrade in that time was known by the name “Alba Graeca” and “Alba Bulgarica”.

7) Simeon Lehaci in his journey memories wrote that all the people in Bosnia speak in "Bulgarian", and they were "Greeks" - in religion.
Great stuff, thanks
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 01:06 AM   #412
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

No prob.

"The Macedonians insist. They tighten their teeth, speak their Macedonian tongue with stubbornness, they dress their Macedonian with pride, they believe & hope, & they are silently fighting for their own Macedonia, for free Macedonia" -- 24/10/1933.

Detailed reportage from the "Rizospastis".

«Στη Μακεδονία», διαβάζουμε εκεί, «παίζεται ένα άγριο δράμα σε βάρος μιας εθνότητας που δεν εννοεί να υποταχθεί σκλάβα στον ελληνικό, γιουγκοσλαυικό ή βουλγαρικό ιμπεριαλισμό» (19/10/1933). «Εχουν τόσοι αιώνες περάσει από τότε που εγκαταστάθηκε το σλαυικό στοιχείο στη Μακεδονία, που κανένας τους σήμερα δεν ξέρει τίποτα άλλο, παρά μονάχα πως στον τόπο αυτό γεννήθηκε και σ’ αυτόν θα πεθάνει. Και πως ούτε Ελληνας, ούτε Βούλγαρος, ούτε Σέρβος είνε» (24/11/1932). «Οι Μακεδόνες επιμένουν. Σφίγγουν τα δόντια τους, μιλάνε τη γλώσσα τους τη μακεδονική με πείσμα, φοράνε τη στολή τους τη μακεδονική με περηφάνεια και πιστεύουν κι ελπίζουν και καρτερικά μα σιωπηλά αγωνίζονται για μια Μακεδονία δική τους, για μια Μακεδονία ελεύθερη» (24/10/1933).

"In Macedonia," we read there, "there is a wild drama against a nation that does not mean to be slave to Greek, Yugoslav or Bulgarian imperialism" (19/10/1933). "It has been so many centuries since the Slavic element settled in Macedonia, and no one knows them today except that it was born in this place and will die in it. And they're neither a Greek, nor a Bulgarian, nor a Serb" (24/11/1932). "The Macedonians insist. They tighten their teeth, speak their Macedonian tongue with stubbornness, they dress their Macedonian with pride, they believe & hope, & they are silently fighting for their own Macedonia, for free Macedonia" 24/10/1933.

URL:
http://www.efsyn.gr/arthro/koinovoyl...vyRIeZUaH_4GlI
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019, 12:18 AM   #413
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

From URL - Greece: Chauvinist Frenzy over Macedonia - Part Two:
https://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/1143/greece.html

The first Greek supporters of Leon Trotsky’s Left Opposition—the Archeiomarxists—were opposed to independence for the Macedonian minority. In discussions with the Archeiomarxists in 1932, Trotsky castigated his supporters for this chauvinist line. Responding to their argument that Aegean Macedonia was “90 percent Greeks,” Trotsky replied: “Our first task is to take an attitude of total skepticism toward these [government] figures.” On the question of independence, Trotsky said:

“I’m not certain whether it is correct to reject this slogan. We cannot say we are opposed to it because the population will be against it. The population must be asked for its opinion on this. The ‘Bulgarians’ represent an oppressed layer....

“It’s not our task to organize nationalist uprisings. We merely say that if the Macedonians want it, we will then side with them, that they should be allowed to decide, and we will also support their decision.”

— “A Discussion on Greece” (Spring 1932)

He went on to point to the crux of the matter for Marxists in Greece:

“What disturbs me is not so much the question of the Macedonian peasants, but rather whether there isn’t a touch of chauvinist poison in Greek workers. That is very dangerous. For us, who are for a Balkan federation of soviet states, it is all the same if Macedonia belongs to this federation as an autonomous whole or part of another state.”



The following is an excerpt from Greece: Chauvinist Frenzy over Macedonia - Part One:
https://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/1142/macedonia.html

In the same article, parroting the worst Greek chauvinists, the KKE declares baldly that: “A historically formed ‘Macedonian’ nation, ‘Macedonian’ ethnicity, ‘Macedonian’ language, which form the basis of irredentism and raise questions of the existence of a minority, claims and defense of its rights etc., do not exist.” The Macedonian people, however, have fought long and hard to exist as a nation with their own language and culture, regardless of the opinions of chauvinist Greek Stalinists. The KKE would never question the pedigree of the Greek nation. One could observe that for centuries under the Byzantines and the Ottomans, Greeks mainly referred to themselves as “Romans” and the development of a national consciousness in Greece, as elsewhere in the Balkans, began only in the late 18th century amid the decay of the Ottoman empire.

The borders of capitalist Greece, which the KKE regards as sacrosanct and inviolable, largely reflect the amount of land that the Greek bourgeoisie was able to grab in the Second Balkan War in 1913 as Greece and Serbia fought Bulgaria to divide up the strategic province of Macedonia. At that time, the peasant population of the territories seized by Greece was mainly Macedonian-speaking, while in Thessaloniki, the largest ethnic group was the Ladino-speaking Jewish population. The founding cadre of what was to become Greek Communism emerged from this rich, cosmopolitan environment.

Today’s KKE upholds imperialist treaties such as that of Bucharest in 1913, which ended the Second Balkan War and put the seal on Greece’s annexations in Epirus and Macedonia (including Thessaloniki). But especially in the Balkans, with its patchwork of nationalities, state boundaries do not at all correspond to the geographical extent of the various nations. The annexations by the bourgeois powers are inevitably followed by mass expulsions (“ethnic cleansing”) and/or forcible assimilation of national minorities. The KKE’s defense of the status quo in the Balkans is a flat denial of the right of self-determination.

Last edited by Carlin15; 02-05-2019 at 12:24 AM.
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 04:02 AM   #414
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=CuC...page&q&f=false


Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 04:29 PM   #415
CaptainAwesome
Junior Member
 
CaptainAwesome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 5
CaptainAwesome is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
One maybe should ask, what the Slavic language would be like without the influence from Cyril and Methodius.
What would all Romance languages be without Latin?

Last edited by CaptainAwesome; 02-10-2019 at 03:45 AM.
CaptainAwesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:59 AM   #416
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,117
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

I still find it hard to believe the languages of Solun, Prague and Kiev were all almost identicle.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 11:50 PM   #417
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default













Last edited by Carlin15; 02-14-2019 at 12:02 AM.
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 12:58 PM   #418
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

"The preaching of the sermon in Latin by Nicetas of Remesiana in Moesia in the late sixth century also implies the presence of a dense Roman and Romanized population in the province."

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=cfw...xPDXoQ6AEINDAC





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Towards the end of the 2nd century BC relentless attacks from the north by the Celtic Scordisci and the Free Thracian tribes, notably the Maidi (the tribe of Spartacus) and Denteletes, threatened to overrun the Roman province of Macedonia. By 115 BC the situation had become so chronic that Quintus Fabius Maximus Eburnus, who had been consul in 116 BC, was sent to Macedonia. Eburnus was renowned as a strict authoritarian figure who had sentenced his own son to death for ‘immorality’, and it appears that it was he who drew up the plans for the eradication of the ‘barbarian’ threat and the Roman conquest of Thrace (Valerius Maximus 6.1.5–6; Pseudo-Quintilian, Decl. 3.17; Orosius 5.16.8).

Last edited by Carlin15; 02-21-2019 at 08:52 PM.
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 12:32 PM   #419
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

Deportation of Armani ('Vlachs') from Bitola region to Bulgaria (reportage from 2016):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4LA-9jV88Q
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 11:10 AM   #420
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,242
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

In this article by Margarita Peshevska titled "The status of the Macedonian minority in Albania", there are a couple of interesting sentences:

- "In Korcha in 1888 there was one school with 40 students who studied in Macedonian language. However, this school was later banned by the Patriarchate Bishop of Korcha."

- "Italian journalist Demetri Delifer believes that several thousand Macedonians live in the city of Gjirokaster."

URL (the article is in Serbian, and it's from 1990):
https://www.rastko.rs/rastko-al/zbor...-makedonci.php
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
population macedonia


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump