Macedonian and Slavic Placenames in Greece and Albania

[Delodephius]

I think Greeks simply don't know it is a Slavic suffix, much like they don't know anything about Slavic language.

[toothpaste]

I think Greeks simply don't know it is a Slavic suffix, much like they don't know anything about Slavic language.

-itsa is a slavic suffix, but the root of the above words is definitely greek

Anyway..do you Slovak accept that there was a slavic migration in the Balcans ..or you belong to the revisionist-ultra-nationalists who deny it
?

[Delodephius]

revisionist-ultra-nationalists

Why revisionist-ultra-nationalists? Are you saying a person cannot be an anti-nationalist if he/she opposes the Slav Migration theory? Why do you assume revisionism is something negative? Revision is the essential part of any historic study. Without it we would still be in the Dark Ages. And anyone who opposes revisionism, in my opinion, is an advocate of a Dark Age.
Unless you were thinking of negationism, which is a far more complex issue.

[Risto the Great]

"ISM" is a better suffix.

RistotheGreatism

[Svoliani]

Why shouldn't they be on the list?

Hi pelister

They shouldnt be on the list because they are not Slavic.
Khrisovitsa - Khriso means gold in Greek
Buf - This is latin word
Igoumenitsa - Igoumeni means the head of the nuns in Greek
Asprohori - self explanitory = white village

Like toothpaste explained look at the root of the word and not the ending. I see on your list Kanapitsa on the island of Skiathos, i have been to this very small island and the name of the island means Skia = shade, now how did one little beach on the island get a supposed slavic name is interesting to me, when the next beach over is called koukounaries named after the many pine trees that grow there.

[Delodephius]

Khrisovitsa is a Slavic placename regardless if the root is Greek.

[toothpaste]

Why revisionist-ultra-nationalists? Are you saying a person cannot be an anti-nationalist if he/she opposes the Slav Migration theory? Why do you assume revisionism is something negative? Revision is the essential part of any historic study. Without it we would still be in the Dark Ages. And anyone who opposes revisionism, in my opinion, is an advocate of a Dark Age.
Unless you were thinking of negationism, which is a far more complex issue.

I don't put all the revisionists in the same basket of course.

I speak abt these ultra nationalists who are ready to adopt every theory fits in their image of the world ,which obviously is a result of their nationalism.
They start from their nationalistic thesis ("we are older" "we are superior" "we are right" etc) and expanding it with every theory to legitimize their starting point.

Anyway...to the point. Do you have an explanation of existence of slavic toponyms in Greece (found in the sources after the middle Byzantine period and not before) if not a slavic migration ?

[Delodephius]

Yes I do. I'm an anti-nationalist, if you don't want to believe it... well, it's fine by me. I don't believe in the Slavic Migration. I plan to examine all of its aspects and it will be my main life goal. I just hope I won't regret it when I'm old that my main purpose in life was to prove a ridiculous theory to be ridiculous.
I do however believe there was an invasion of Slavonic tribes. Not a very big one though, but an invasion nonetheless. These Slavonic tribes spoke a language mutually intelligible to the natives of the Balkans: Macedonians, Thracians, Illyrians, etc. Some of these I believe resided in the territory of what is now Greece, perhaps descendants of native pre-Greek settlers or descendants of slaves and workers from the rest of Balkans. Now, during that time period the term Slavic or Slavonic referred only to those Slavonic tribes. In other words, Slavs were only a part of what today we call Slavs. This is only when it comes to terms. Let us for example call what we today refer to as Slavs as for example Slav-Europeans, just for the sake of clarity. Now when the Slavs (in their own language: Slovaeni) invaded Balkans there they found other Slav-European speaking peoples. They took control over from the Roman Byzantines and established their own political entities named after them Slovaenie or Sklavinae (don't mind my spelling). These Slovaenie stretched over most of Balkans, except in Thrace (modern day Bulgaria) where the system was still based on local tribalism. Over time, in the 9th century, the Slovaeni in Central Europe and the small states they established in the Balkans constituted the Eastern front of Holy Roman Empire. The Romans (Latins) termed them all Slavs. Besides that the liturgical language of the Slav-European speaking churches was called Slovaenski and the term Slavs then spread over to Eastern Slav-Europeans. Before the 11th century the oldest Russian sources mention that 'the Slavs and the Russians speak esentially the same language'. During that period the term has not yet become applied to all Slav-European speaking people. Over the years this was apparently forgotten, but rediscovered in the 19th century. During that time Lithuanians and Latvians (Baltic speaking peoples) were also referred to as Slavs.
Now I over-simplified this greatly, but it doesn't matter. Why the Slavic (now I'm referring to the modern usage of the term) were not mentioned before middle Byzantine period, I don't know. I haven't dealt with because it's not on my priority list, sort to speak. My priority list is about examining the Slav Migration theory and why is it false. But I'm sure there is a sound and logical explanation to it, just I wouldn't trust most people about it. You'll need someone who is 100% unemotional about that issue and it'll be hard to find one.

[Delodephius]

Suffix -itsa usually is added to placenames. There are many towns in Serbia that have this suffix, even Slovak towns like Kovačica (Kovachitsa), the second largest Slovak town here. So, Khrisovitsa (I asume in Cyrillic Хрисовица) was a home of the Khrisov tribe. In Montenegro and Herzegovina tribes and clans are the basis of the society there. I'm not surprised if this was the case in Slavic speaking parts of Greece.

[Pelister]

Yes I do. I'm an anti-nationalist, if you don't want to believe it... well, it's fine by me. I don't believe in the Slavic Migration. I plan to examine all of its aspects and it will be my main life goal. I just hope I won't regret it when I'm old that my main purpose in life was to prove a ridiculous theory to be ridiculous.
I do however believe there was an invasion of Slavonic tribes. Not a very big one though, but an invasion nonetheless. These Slavonic tribes spoke a language mutually intelligible to the natives of the Balkans: Macedonians, Thracians, Illyrians, etc. Some of these I believe resided in the territory of what is now Greece, perhaps descendants of native pre-Greek settlers or descendants of slaves and workers from the rest of Balkans. Now, during that time period the term Slavic or Slavonic referred only to those Slavonic tribes. In other words, Slavs were only a part of what today we call Slavs. This is only when it comes to terms. Let us for example call what we today refer to as Slavs as for example Slav-Europeans, just for the sake of clarity. Now when the Slavs (in their own language: Slovaeni) invaded Balkans there they found other Slav-European speaking peoples. They took control over from the Roman Byzantines and established their own political entities named after them Slovaenie or Sklavinae (don't mind my spelling). These Slovaenie stretched over most of Balkans, except in Thrace (modern day Bulgaria) where the system was still based on local tribalism. Over time, in the 9th century, the Slovaeni in Central Europe and the small states they established in the Balkans constituted the Eastern front of Holy Roman Empire. The Romans (Latins) termed them all Slavs. Besides that the liturgical language of the Slav-European speaking churches was called Slovaenski and the term Slavs then spread over to Eastern Slav-Europeans. Before the 11th century the oldest Russian sources mention that 'the Slavs and the Russians speak esentially the same language'. During that period the term has not yet become applied to all Slav-European speaking people. Over the years this was apparently forgotten, but rediscovered in the 19th century. During that time Lithuanians and Latvians (Baltic speaking peoples) were also referred to as Slavs.
Now I over-simplified this greatly, but it doesn't matter. Why the Slavic (now I'm referring to the modern usage of the term) were not mentioned before middle Byzantine period, I don't know. I haven't dealt with because it's not on my priority list, sort to speak. My priority list is about examining the Slav Migration theory and why is it false. But I'm sure there is a sound and logical explanation to it, just I wouldn't trust most people about it. You'll need someone who is 100% unemotional about that issue and it'll be hard to find one.

Is there any credible evidence of the Slavic langauge being used in ancient Macedonia, or region ? (It's off the topic. If you have any evidence of this, feel free to create a new thread). It is at least one way to gather evidence that might debunk various elements of that theory).

It would provide a strong case against some elements/assumptions of the Slavic migration theory.

[Вардарец]

Hi pelister

They shouldnt be on the list because they are not Slavic.
Khrisovitsa - Khriso means gold in Greek
Buf - This is latin word
Igoumenitsa - Igoumeni means the head of the nuns in Greek
Asprohori - self explanitory = white village

Krisho (Кришо) Is a common Macedonian / Slavic name

Buf - Буф - an Owl, in Macedonian

Igoumenitsa - Igumen/Игумен , sounds familiar to me, don't remember for what it was used (Church related, for that i am sure)

Asprohori - a bit alien (greek) to me.

[El Bre]

Igumen is the Slavic equivalent of Igoumenos in Greek. It means Abbot.

In Macedonian the suffix vitsa or just itsa can mean bride of

Macedonian society like other European societies was Patriarchal. Therefore, it was not uncommon for women to be referred to in terms of their husbands first name.

ie; Donevitsa, Ristovitsa, etc.

The Latin word for owl is bubo, etymologists believe that bubo, huo, uhu and buf are derived from the Persian chuf

[Daskalot]

Krisho (Кришо) Is a common Macedonian / Slavic name

Buf - Буф - an Owl, in Macedonian

Igoumenitsa - Igumen/Игумен , sounds familiar to me, don't remember for what it was used (Church related, for that i am sure)

Asprohori - a bit alien (greek) to me.

wait a minute here, the Greeks told us these are Greek names, why do you refute this Vardarets?

[Вардарец]

Abre Daskale, the Greeks live in a separate, Hellenic, dzhanam world!

I just say what i know and how it is.

[Svoliani]

I have gone through them all and i must say the funniest one on that list has to be Gaidaronisi. I mean what business it has there i do not know.... Gaidaro = donkey nisi = island = donkeyisland

I can only speculate that the poor guy who made this list saw Gaida and got all excited thinking it was the instrument that he hears when he dances his favourite horo.