Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Soldier of Macedon]

What a waste of time and money. And this Nimitz character has the best job in the world - doing absolutely nothing - and getting paid handsomely for it.

[Makedonetz]

oh it gets better SOM

Government continues harmonising Macedonian laws with EU's

The Government in 2011 plans to prepare 62 EU-related laws and over 400 by-laws. In 2010, the Government developed 106 laws - which in most part have been enacted by the Parliament - and adopted approximately 250 by-laws. 2010 is one of the most successful years with respect to harmonising Macedonian legislation with EU's and the same dynamics will be maintained, said Vice Premier in charge of European affairs, Vasko Naumovski, on Wednesday.

It appears these people are slowly driving our country into the brick wall of the EU head first!.

[Bill77]

Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist

Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist

Greece and Macedonia are both buying time and avoid any sort of solution. Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist, while Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.

- Andreas Papandreou with the Interim Agreement and all steps taken during the Karamanlis and even the present Government, in reality are steps to buy time. Our neighbor to the north, we believe, we hope, naturally, that at some poing will cease to exist - says Petros Tatsopoulos, a writer.

"When Macedonia in the 90's agreed to a complicated name, the Greek side was against it, now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance, the other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it", this was the consensus of the sides involved in the Athens debate.

Gligorov agreed to "New Macedonia", claimed Greek professor Tanos Veremis, "we agreed, lets close the problem, but of course one day we receive that fatal phone call. Not to ignite the flames, I won't tell you who was on the phone, well, I will tell you today he is a leader of a major party.. Samaras!

Greek analysts, writers and professors involved in the debate did not deviate at all from the well known stance by official Athens, however, the audience at the debate did not share the same opinions..

"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.

- I only want to say we are wrong...
- No, I won't explain anything to you, you should already know this...
- We'll never recognize them...
- Lower your voice lady, you don't scare me...

These were some of the things overheard among audience members as the debate got heated.

Surprisingly, the mic ended up in the hands of an ethnic Macedonian from Lerin who was allowed to speak.

- All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!!

The Macedonian question - the good the bad and the ugly, was part of the debate where the Athens debate had to decide which is which.

- The Balkans have a tendency that one is good, and that's usually us, the others are bad and the rest are boring. In our case, the ugly can be Nimetz, the mediator in this dispute - says Elina Makri, a coordinator of Athens CafeBabel.

The debate was organized by CafeBabel in Athens, with the hope to educate Europe's youth about the dispute with Macedonia. The debate will be translated into numerous languages and sent to all Cafebabel members.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17367/46/

Well there is so much to dissect and comment on this. Anyone wants to take the floor first?

[Soldier of Macedon]

A clear admission of their intent. All we want is recognition as Macedonians, while they want us to be non-existent as Macedonians. Even an idiot can see (aside from Nimitz being the 'ugly') - who is the good, and who is the bad.

[Bill77]

A clear admission indeed SOM.
" Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist" according to Greek experts. We've known this all along. The world has known this all along. But they (world) have been playing stupid. How much longer are they going to play dumb now.


I just want to High-lite some parts of the entire article that i find interesting and gradually give an opinion.

Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist.......
Our neighbor to the north, we believe, we hope, naturally, that at some poing will cease to exist - says Petros Tatsopoulos, a writer.

Bloody Natzis.
I might sound hypocritical, but the Balkans would be a better place if these Maggots cease to exist instead.

Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.......

now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance (Agree to a complicated name) other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it

If the current Macedonian government are ready to concede, why do Greece think the opposite compared to the majority of the members here? Would it be wise by Greece to shut up and not stir the pot if Macedonia was close to giving up on the name?

Gligorov agreed to "New Macedonia", claimed Greek professor Tanos Veremis, "we agreed, lets close the problem, but of course one day we receive that fatal phone call. Not to ignite the flames, I won't tell you who was on the phone, well, I will tell you today he is a leader of a major party.. Samaras!

Gligorov should not be breathing now.

Re Samaras, talk about mixed emotions. I don't know if he should be thanked or spat on. Well in this case, Thank you Mr Samaras.....excuse me while i step outside and vomit now.

Greek analysts, writers and professors involved in the debate did not deviate at all from the well known stance by official Athens, however, the audience at the debate did not share the same opinions.....

"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.....

- I only want to say we are wrong...

These were some of the things overheard among audience members as the debate got heated.

Are the public starting to realize and accept the inevitable?




And my favorite part,

- All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!!

Well said by this brave Macedonian.
I would have loved to hear there response.

[The LION will ROAR]

[QUOTE=Bill77;86115]Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist

Greece and Macedonia are both buying time and avoid any sort of solution. Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist, while Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.

Sorry, that won't happen...we have and will always exist..
but I could assure you that your nation will fall apart very shortly..especially when Europe has a gut full of you racists

"When Macedonia in the 90's agreed to a complicated name, the Greek side was against it, now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance, the other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it", this was the consensus of the sides involved in the Athens debate.

Softer approach..? ahhh Maybe you used up or your lies and Macedonians have exposed the truth...
Greece have hit the self-destruct button and all their dirty little secrets are out.

"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.

- I only want to say we are wrong...
- No, I won't explain anything to you, you should already know this...
- We'll never recognize them...
- Lower your voice lady, you don't scare me...

Your dam right you will lose and will be forced to except us...

Surprisingly, the mic ended up in the hands of an ethnic Macedonian from Lerin who was allowed to speak.

- All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!!

Do you think this meeting was recorded..? would love to see it...

The Macedonian question - the good the bad and the ugly, was part of the debate where the Athens debate had to decide which is which.

I could only see Athens being the BAD, and the Ugly...

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17367/46/

[fyrOM]

I would love to see on the news the riots in Greece the inevitable day the un recognises Macedonia.

Its slowly dawning on them that it started with only a few countries recognising Macedonia while the Greek shouted to Macedonia nobody in the world believes your stinking lies…change your name and identity or die.

With Zimbabwe we are upto 130 countries out of the 193 recognised in the un and hence able to vote a 67.36 percent. The wheel is 2 third turned. Quite a change. As the number grows it is a clear message to Greece we…the world…don’t believe you’re your stinking lies.

The day is inevitable that’s why I keep saying the next 2 years are going to be very interesting.

If the Greeks and west are smart they will work on a face saving strategy and the political issues of Egej Macedonia separating from Greece but keeping their business interests.

[Risto the Great]

The person from Lerin told the truth. Greeks have changed their mantra over the last 20 years and now they reject the previous truths. Fools.

[George S.]

I did mention in a couple of threads that i happen to glance in the greek embassy articles & read the translated greek.I found they were saying that they were virtually ready to throw the proverbial towel in if more & more countries recognise macedonia under its constitutional name.They admitted they were winning the battle but losing the war.Also they were saying what a pushover were some of the macedonian politicians they can just be manupulated so easily.The message is clear unless they want to be traitors to the macedonian cause PULL OUT now.

[Risto the Great]

Macedonia ready to iron differences with Greece in European manner, says president

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n239548

Skopje. Macedonia is ready in European manner to settle the name dispute, imposed by Greece, which prevents the country to realize its strategic goals - the EU and NATO membership, President Gjorge Ivanov said late Friday at his reception for the diplomatic corps, Macedonian MIA new agency reports.
"It is a pity for many generations of Macedonia's citizens to suffer hardship on their road to progress and welfare over an irrational reason. Macedonia is ready to iron the differences with neighbouring Greece in a European manner. I believe that dialogue, more trust and better understanding will lead us to mutually acceptable solution - a compromise that declares neither winners nor losers," Ivanov said.
The new year, he said, will observe the 20th anniversary of Macedonia's independence and 10th anniversary of the Ohrid Framework Agreement. It will be also marked by resuming of crucial reforms on the road to desired EU, NATO membership, the President added.
The diplomatic corps' doyen, Romania's Ambassador Adrian Constantinescu believes that 2011 is going to be an excellent year for Macedonia and its citizens.

And why shouldn't Macedonia be the winner Ivanov?
Sounds like a sellout is inevitable by DPMNE and Co.

Anyone want to suggest a way Macedonia won't lose in this process? Disgusting.

[Vangelovski]

In the tradition of OM - a story, but this one actually has a point:

There was a hunter who had taken aim at a very large and angry bear. The hunter was ready to pull the trigger of his rifle when he heard the bear speak in a soothing voice, "Isn't it better to talk than to shoot? Why don't we negotiate this matter? What do you want?"

The hunter lowered his rifle and answered, "I would like a fur coat."

The bear said, "This is good. I think there is something we can do about that. All I want is a full stomach. Maybe we can compromise."

So they sat down to talk. A little while later, the bear walked away alone. The negotiations had been successful. The bear had his full stomach, and the hunter had his fur coat!

[fyrOM]

And why shouldn't Macedonia be the winner Ivanov?
Sounds like a sellout is inevitable by DPMNE and Co.

Anyone want to suggest a way Macedonia won't lose in this process? Disgusting.

One could be cynical and say a European manner is to offer you a lolly with the promise of more to let them stick their hands in your jocks only to be grabbed by the nuts and squeezed until you give up or faint whichever comes first while they pat you on the head or back with their other hand saying there there you’ll get used to it soon.

Greece is on a downhill run in the name dispute and could loose in the not to distant future…and with them so too the eu re Suez Canal buffer zone theory…yet what would Macedonia gain…remembering gone are the good old days of genocide at least in Europe…more Greeks and others than Macedonians in Egej and RoM put together hardly a desirable mix in a democracy where everyone gets a vote…the Macedonians will become a minority in their own country and loose whatever control they had.

I have a bad feeling about Egej…just keep in mind the ultimate goal of the eu…ie Roman Empire…of open boarders with one big crossover economy and minority rights…Macedonia Salutaris in the north and Macedonia Prima in the south…so what if you are technically part of Greece…ie our buffer zone…you get to be called Macedonians learn and speak your language and some properties are returned or restitution made while in RoM the recognition of Macedonians means a quick accent into the eu and nato alleviating domestic pressures and possible conflict.

A European manner solution…a win win…or is that loose loose…that’s right no winners or losers.

I’ve been hinting at this for ages.

By the way note that in the above Ivanov and Gruevski get to claim they never lied…the did everything to preserve the Macedonian name identity and language for all Macedonians and the integrity of RoM while getting in the eu and nato and having brought prosperity to the country while not forgetting those Macedonians outside of RoM in human rights for them…does this all sound like the words they have been dropping hints at all along.


PS Bravo Vangelovski I knew you would come around to the OziMak way sooner or later. Very good analogy.

[George S.]

Why not come out & admit macedonia will have to compromise first on its name .Lose,then it will be a winner by being allowed to enter Nato & EU.I'ts a forgone conclussion.VmRO DPMe is planning a sellout for sure.You can see ivanov is simply spinning rhetoric.

[George S.]

in the european manner I believe that dialogue, more trust and better understanding will lead us to mutually acceptable solution - a compromise that declares neither winners nor losers," Ivanov said.Please let me know what that compromise is selling ones identity for the sake of entering Eu,&nato,What a joke we have all been proven wrong we were hoping that the politicians would not negotiate & stand their ground what a joke.They won't even stand to reason.While other nations are determined to stay out of these organizations macedonia is going to be the new lapdog who obeys it's master.Nothing but a complete joke,

[Soldier of Macedon]

Any deviation from our position that demands self-respect is a defeat. Ivanov is fast becoming another tool for foreign interests in Macedonia.