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Old 07-23-2012, 02:06 PM   #21
George S.
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good to see the stupid idiot voltron get banned at long last.The man is a psycho who just doesn't get it get a reality check man & wake up to yourself where's your humanity???
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:37 PM   #22
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Iíll try to give you an example since my maternal grandmotherís family was refugees from Asia Minor. That was a family where both husband and wife were in their second marriage, and had six children from their first marriages and from their common marriage, including an orphan nephew whose whole family had been killed by the Turks.
They had two big houses and 3 or 4 different estates, horses etc. When they came to Greece they were put in a shantytown made for the refugees in the suburbs of Thessaloniki. Soon they lost three of their children from various diseases, two boys around 18 years old at the same time and later a girl around 15. That sounds like a lot of fun.
And now their offspring call themselves Greek and Macedonian. Why?
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:46 AM   #23
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Do you find a contradiction? You call yourself an Australian even though your parents landed there in the 60s, not in the 1920s and not because youíre half Aborigine.
The refugees themselves are now dead and their children are old or dying. The people living now in Macedonia are grand-children of the people born in that era or great-grandchildren of the 1910s-1920s protagonists. Most of them (including me) are urban people with mixed ancestry of locals and refugees, people from the rest of Greece or foreigners.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:59 AM   #24
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Do you find a contradiction? You call yourself an Australian even though your parents landed there in the 60s, not in the 1920s and not because youíre half Aborigine.
The refugees themselves are now dead and their children are old or dying. The people living now in Macedonia are grand-children of the people born in that era or great-grandchildren of the 1910s-1920s protagonists. Most of them (including me) are urban people with mixed ancestry of locals and refugees, people from the rest of Greece or foreigners.
There's no contradiction in RtG calling himself an Australian. "Australian" denotes a citizen of Australia.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:02 AM   #25
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And now their offspring call themselves Greek and Macedonian. Why?
RTG, as long as they learn how to speak Macedonian...... :-)
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:59 PM   #26
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i Don't think the prosfeges or anyone bought in from the outside can be called a macedonian.But they can call themselves greek even that streches the imagination a bit as greek they are not..
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:44 PM   #27
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Do you find a contradiction? You call yourself an Australian even though your parents landed there in the 60s, not in the 1920s and not because youíre half Aborigine.
The refugees themselves are now dead and their children are old or dying. The people living now in Macedonia are grand-children of the people born in that era or great-grandchildren of the 1910s-1920s protagonists. Most of them (including me) are urban people with mixed ancestry of locals and refugees, people from the rest of Greece or foreigners.

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There's no contradiction in RtG calling himself an Australian. "Australian" denotes a citizen of Australia.
Louis, as Vangelovski stated, I am indeed a citizen of Australia and I call myself Australian (particularly when I go overseas).

I have no problem with your mixed ancestry peoples calling themselves Greek. They are Greek citizens. But calling themselves Macedonian is ludicrous and you know it. I could understand their desire to be called Macedonian if they were living a country called Macedonia. Where do you disagree?
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:34 AM   #28
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Greeks use the term Macedonian, for people who live in or come from Macedonia. They donít mean it in an ethnic or national sense as you do. Also, no one has used or suggested the term Macedonian as a synonym of Greek, if thatís what you imply.

The people of the Rainbow Party now call themselves εθνικά Μακεδόνες (ethnic Macedonians). They also emphasize what you already mentioned, that they are not Greeks, only citizens of Greece.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:51 PM   #29
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Greeks use the term Macedonian, for people who live in or come from Macedonia. They don’t mean it in an ethnic or national sense as you do. Also, no one has used or suggested the term Macedonian as a synonym of Greek, if that’s what you imply.
So it is a local thing for domestic consumption only by the sound of it.

Oh good, we have progress. But should I take your word for it? Because the answer is clear. We have Greeks from the Macedonian geographic region who are concerned that Macedonians from Macedonia are calling themselves Macedonians.

So in fact, the Greeks are just being miserable wankers and not accepting the fact they are actually nothing more than Greeks who live in the geographic region of Macedonia that presently is in Greece. They are the ones who need to qualify their self descriptions and I would suggest they call themselves Greeks. Wouldn't you?

Louis, I think the Ministry of Greek Falsifications will be getting in touch with you shortly. You have gone too far.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:36 PM   #30
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First of all, I donít hope that we may educate or surprise each other, but maybe we can inform third parties that are reading our discussion.

Greeks already call themselvesÖ Greeks (you donít need to suggest that). A Greek being Macedonian (or Thracian or Cretan etc.) is a secondary local description. During Ottoman Empire one of my ancestors spent his life in the borderline of Eastern Macedonia and Thrace. His basic identity was that he was Greek; he was not Macedonian in the morning and Thracian in the night. The Ottoman or Greek administrative divisions (in 1910 or in 2010) meant and mean very little.

[Nevertheless, at first Comintern (Communist Internationale) really believed that thereís a unique Thracian people with itsí unique Thracian language and identity which is not Greek, Turkish or Bulgarian. This opinion was revoked a few years later.]

The Greeks do not doubt that youíre Macedonian (in a geographical sense) or that youíre implicated in Macedoniaís History (as other have). Thus names as Northern Macedonia (geographical term) or Slav Macedonia (ethnic term) might have been acceptable (or at least have some chances) in the past, yet several things have changed or evolved in the last 20 years.
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