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Old 01-22-2018, 05:35 PM   #11
Liberator of Makedonija
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Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce View Post

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[size="5"][b]Historical documentation

He believes the modern Macedonian identity began to emerge after 1900
He basically states that the Macedonians had a “dark age” for a few hundred years after the Ottoman Empire took control of the Balkans, resulting in them forgetting their Macedonian identity and self-identifying under a number of other various labels such as “Christians”, “Peasants” and later “Bulagarian, “Greek” or “Serbian” mostly depending on Church and/or school attended. I`m not too sure for his reasoning with saying it begins around 1900. Even the previous book about the Macedonians that I read by Rossos says the re-emergence of Macedonianism or the Makedonisti was from around the 1860`s onward. This forum also has evidence to support this. Along with that I am pretty sure I have seen evidence to go against the idea that Macedonians didn’t identify as Macedonian in this supposed dark period.
In 'One Macedonian Matters' by Krste Misirkov published in 1903, Misirkov states how the Macedonian national identity still was not felt by much of the general populace. Perhaps the author meant that it wasn't until post-1900 did a strong identity become prevelant amongst almost all of Macedonian society. There is evidence of the Macedonian identity emerging in the 1850's and 60's but for much time it seemed to be concentrated to the intelligentsia.


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He believes that the Macedonians even in the VMRO period did not identify as being “ethnically” Macedonian
His view is that the Macedonians eventually started identifying as Macedonians again based on their land being known as Macedonia. Damionapoulos believes that in this period the Macedonian identity was a national/political identity but fell short of being an ethnicity as he states that many prominent Macedonians of this time identified as being ethnically Bulgarian. Once again I have seen evidence to go against this claim, many on this forum.
I would of believed this be the other way around. In his research about the Macedonian nation he seems to have not looked into the development of our neighbour's national identities which I believe is crucial to do not just for us but for all Balkan peoples. He doesn't seem to realise the term 'Bulgarian' had a different meaning then than it does now.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:29 PM   #12
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Yet it is well documented the original Bulgars did not speak the (slavic) language that the Macedonians spoke when the Bulgars (later) arrived in the region.
I am an avid student and reader about Byzantine history as it is part of our history and heritage.
This from the eminent historian Sir John Julius Norwich from Byzantium Volume 2. The Apogee on page 73 where he speaks about Cyril and Methodius mission
“Meanwhile, in the spring of the previous year, Cyril had set off on his Moravian mission - accompanied by his brother Methodius, almost as well qualified as himself for the task ahead. During an early career in government service he had been posted to a province with a largely Slav population, and he too had learned their language. Later, deciding on a life of contemplation, he had retired to a monastery on the Bithynian Mount Olympus; but when his brother invited him to share the burden of his new mission he had readily agreed to join him. The pair left Constantinople - as nearly as we can deduce - in the summer of 864, and remained in Moravia for over 3 years. According to an ancient tradition, Cyril invented a new alphabet with which to transcribe the hitherto unwritten Slavonic speech, and then proceeded to translate the Bible and parts of the liturgy. Oddly enough, the language he chose was MACEDONIAN Slavonic - only distinctly related to the Slovakian dialect spoken by the Moravians, few of whom could have understood a word of it; it therefore seems a good deal more likely that he had devised his alphabet with the Bulgars rather than the Moravians in mind, and that he later simply made his translations into the only Slav language he knew”.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:49 PM   #13
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I am an avid student and reader about Byzantine history as it is part of our history and heritage.
This from the eminent historian Sir John Julius Norwich from Byzantium Volume 2. The Apogee on page 73 where he speaks about Cyril and Methodius mission
“Meanwhile, in the spring of the previous year, Cyril had set off on his Moravian mission - accompanied by his brother Methodius, almost as well qualified as himself for the task ahead. During an early career in government service he had been posted to a province with a largely Slav population, and he too had learned their language. Later, deciding on a life of contemplation, he had retired to a monastery on the Bithynian Mount Olympus; but when his brother invited him to share the burden of his new mission he had readily agreed to join him. The pair left Constantinople - as nearly as we can deduce - in the summer of 864, and remained in Moravia for over 3 years. According to an ancient tradition, Cyril invented a new alphabet with which to transcribe the hitherto unwritten Slavonic speech, and then proceeded to translate the Bible and parts of the liturgy. Oddly enough, the language he chose was MACEDONIAN Slavonic - only distinctly related to the Slovakian dialect spoken by the Moravians, few of whom could have understood a word of it; it therefore seems a good deal more likely that he had devised his alphabet with the Bulgars rather than the Moravians in mind, and that he later simply made his translations into the only Slav language he knew”.

I've never believed the language spoken in Macedonia during this period could of possibly been the same as spoken as far west as Poland and as far east as Russia.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:26 AM   #14
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I've never believed the language spoken in Macedonia during this period could of possibly been the same as spoken as far west as Poland and as far east as Russia.
My understanding of what Sir John is saying is that Cyril and Methodius chose Macedonian Slavonic to make it more palpable to the Bulgars as they had already adopted Macedonian Slavonic as their language or a variant of it. It reinforces what Risto stated above.

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Old 01-23-2018, 06:13 PM   #15
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I'm under the impression that Kiril & Metodi used a language that was/is the lowest common denominator in all slavic languages to spread the word, Macedonian

Macedonian is most likely the root of all slavic languages.
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