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Old 01-01-2018, 07:45 PM   #1
Tomche Makedonche
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Default Macedonia Says It's Ready To Give Up Claim As Sole Heir To Alexander The Great

https://www.rferl.org/a/macedonia-yu.../28935265.html

Macedonia Says It's Ready To Give Up Claim As Sole Heir To Alexander The Great's Legacy

Macedonia's prime minister says he is ready to renounce his country's claim to be the sole heir of Alexander the Great’s legacy, a potential concession that could lead to the easing of a long-standing dispute with Greece.

"I give up [the claim] of Macedonia being the sole heir to Alexander,” Prime Minister Zoran Zaev told TV station Telma in an interview late on December 22.

“The history belongs not only to us, but also to Greece and many other countries,” the left-leaning prime minister added.

Alexander the Great is the famed ruler of the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia.

Greece has objected to Skopje's use of the name “Macedonia” since its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, arguing that it implies territorial ambitions on the part of the country.

Athens’ objections have complicated Skopje's aspirations to join NATO and the European Union.

Greece in 2008 blocked Macedonia's bid to join NATO under its provisional name of Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) because of the dispute.

Zaev did not indicate how or if the country’s name would change if it were to give up the claim as Alexander’s sole heir.

Macedonia’s former conservative government pushed the use of the name, naming the country's main highway and airport after Alexander and building a 28-meter-high monument in Skopje's main square.

Former Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski blamed his VMRO-DPMNE party's fall from power on his refusal to compromise with Athens in the dispute. Gruevski has stepped down as party leader and was replaced by technocrat Hristijan Mickoski at the party convention on December 22.

Matthew Nimetz, the United Nations special representative for the naming dispute, said on December 12 that the issue “can and should be resolved” next year after the parties met for the first time in three years in Brussels.

Nimetz, a U.S. diplomat who is the personal envoy of UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, said after a meeting with Greek and Macedonian envoys that “the atmosphere is a much better one and from both Skopje and Athens there is an indication that we should make an intensive effort to resolve this issue that has been outstanding for so many years.”

In his interview, Zaev also said he was optimistic Macedonia would be rewarded for its reform process with an invitation soon to begin EU membership talks.

“If we continue with reforms at a good pace, Macedonia will get a date for starting negotiations with the EU at the June summit,” he said.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:01 PM   #2
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This article is either purposely misleading or naively misleading. It has never been about giving up claim as “sole” heir to Alexander's legacy but ANY claim to Alexander's legacy.

It is purposely misleading in that it puts the blame squarely on the Republic of Macedonia for Greece's intransigence. That is to say, it is because Macedonia is selfishly monopolising the heritage of the Ancient Macedonians when Greece too has a chunk of Macedonia, the biggest chunk of all in fact.

It is naively misleading in that it suggests this is the only reason for Greece's intransigence. Nothing else would make sense otherwise. Never mind the sizeable population inside Greek borders who identify as ethnic Macedonians which the Greek authorities are desperately trying to hide. Such people do not exist and they could never exist as they would be an ever present threat to Greek sovereignty. Sweeping them under the carpet and disguising them as an insignificant bunch of Slavophone Greeks is their best solution it would seem. And if anyone asks? - “Sure we have Macedonians. Greek Macedonians. Two and half million of them as a matter of fact. It would be an insult to them to see the Slavs of Skopja steal their Macedonian heritage (which goes back a whole 100 years)”. Got to hand it to the Greeks though, renaming their Pontic refugees as “Greek Macedonians” was a master stroke. A cunningly duplicitous term, specifically engineered to deceive and confuse. Well done.

No, it has never been about giving up claim as sole heir to the heritage of the Ancient Macedonians, as if this is what the whole argument has been about all this time. It has always been about giving up any and all claims to the name Macedonia and our identity as Macedonians.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:33 PM   #3
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Greece has always played the 'but you're appropriating our culture' card and what others play along with most often. The more we deconstruct that, the better. There will never bee enough articles deconstructing this one.

A lengthy list of all the cultures they've appropriated or where all their stuff comes from would pair very nicely. A lot of the people who've made this claim to me keep trying to pass off Cyprus as part of Greece, for example. one of them even made this bullshit analogy about it passing themselves off as the victims. Completely delusional.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:24 PM   #4
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...Got to hand it to the Greeks though, renaming their Pontic refugees as “Greek Macedonians” was a master stroke. A cunningly duplicitous term, specifically engineered to deceive and confuse. Well done...
Master stroke indeed...it has been the rebranding of an otherwise nondescript and much maligned mass of people...a social stop-gap solution to a demographic problem that is now showing signs of success for the 'greeks'.

I am amazed by the brazen nature of the 'greeks' to import millions of people from Asia Minor and turn them into 'Greek Macedonians' but then to have the audacity to claim that Tito created us.

With the Pontic refugees the 'greeks' had a malleable product that could be shaped into any form. The refugees were never accepted as true 'greeks' but now they have found their little niche to gain acceptance and a new identity.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:34 AM   #5
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"I give up [the claim] of Macedonia being the sole heir to Alexander,” Prime Minister Zoran Zaev told TV station Telma in an interview late on December 22.
A politician does not have the right to give up Macedonia's claim to any of its historical figures.
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“The history belongs not only to us, but also to Greece and many other countries,” the left-leaning prime minister added.
Interesting statement. Will any Greek politician reciprocate and say the same?
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Macedonia’s former conservative government pushed the use of the name, naming the country's main highway and airport after Alexander and building a 28-meter-high monument in Skopje's main square.
Pushed the use of the name? Successive Greek regimes have also put up statues of Alexander and used the Macedonian name for facilities and regions. Unfortunately, successive Macedonian governments have been too spineless to raise this for discussion.
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Matthew Nimetz, the United Nations special representative for the naming dispute, said on December 12 that the issue “can and should be resolved” next year after the parties met for the first time in three years in Brussels.
Is this useless bonehead still slithering about?
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:43 AM   #6
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A politician does not have the right to give up Macedonia's claim to any of its historical figures.
Gligorov's, now infamous, statement to the Greeks immediately springs to mind. No doubt, the Greeks are hoping history will be repeated in Zaev.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:52 PM   #7
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Why do we need enemies when our own "leaders" have always inflicted the worst damage.

I put the odds of a name change at 70/30 to change.

One of two funny things are going to happen.

First: the name change will get held up because Greece won't except something like Northern Macedonia. Then they will push for something ridiculous like Republic of Skopje, or Vardar. In the end if the name change fails it will be because Greece was over zealous, and not because Macedonians stood against it.

Second, They do change the name somehow to whatever, and the EU finds another reason to deny entry. This is the most likely outcome and Macedonians will have committed ethnic suicide for absolutely nothing in return.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:12 PM   #8
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Why do we need enemies when our own "leaders" have always inflicted the worst damage.

I put the odds of a name change at 70/30 to change.

One of two funny things are going to happen.

First: the name change will get held up because Greece won't except something like Northern Macedonia. Then they will push for something ridiculous like Republic of Skopje, or Vardar. In the end if the name change fails it will be because Greece was over zealous, and not because Macedonians stood against it.

Second, They do change the name somehow to whatever, and the EU finds another reason to deny entry. This is the most likely outcome and Macedonians will have committed ethnic suicide for absolutely nothing in return.
I wonder what the name negotiations would have looked liked if our little plate smashing friends were only slightly less intransigent...I think our side would have changed the name at a drop of a hat if a combination name that included 'Macedonia' in the title was deemed palatable to the sensitivities of the clowns in the south.

Settlement of the name dispute means jack-shit to NATO or EU membership...it merely removes one obstacle in the opening up of negotiations toward this goal.

On the sidelines of NATO you have both the bulgarians and albanians both waiting to extract their pound of flesh from Macedonia before they tick-off on Macedonia's potential admission into the organisation.

As for the EU, Brussels needs to put enlargement back on the agenda...the future Republic of (...?) Macedonia (...?) may not get a look in for at least another decade (+)

Our leaders have thus far been of very poor character, shortsighted, naive and incompetent...putting the negotiation of our identity in the hands of such individuals will not end well and with ZZ now running the show, the end is neigh.

Like you Gocka, I also believe we will lose our identity and still be left on the periphery of the EU club, just like the Turks have been excluded for decades.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:16 PM   #9
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Like you Gocka, I also believe we will lose our identity and still be left on the periphery of the EU club, just like the Turks have been excluded for decades.
Like you both.
I will bet on this outcome.
The EU already gets more out of Macedonia by torturing them as they are presently. It has nothing to gain by letting them in.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:10 AM   #10
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Hi guys, like the Macedonians under Greek occupation we will never lose our identity. Macedonia will most likely change its name but Greece will continue to discriminate against Macedonians, deny right of return to the child refugees , or put back Churches and grave stones in original form with Cyrillic writing.
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