Macron Just Doesn’t Get It

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    Macron Just Doesn’t Get It

    Macron Just Doesn’t Get It

    He and others on the left are being swept along by world-historical forces they do not fully understand.


    By Tyler Cowen
    December 12, 2018

    URL:


    The sorry truth is that both progressives and neoliberals still don’t get it, and that seems true in France most of all.

    Since the election of President Emmanuel Macron in 2017, I have read or heard that he is the leader of the free world, the hope for Europe, and a model for the U.S. Instead, he increasingly seems to be a well-meaning guy elected in the wrong historical era.

    From the beginning I’ve been a supporter of Macron and his desire to extend economic globalization. But here’s the problem: The West is experiencing a loss of relative status, due to diminished power and influence. Western societies, including France, are being transformed by immigration beyond what many of their native-born citizens had expected. The rising prominence of terror, migration and security issues have boosted some of the less salubrious sides of the right wing. Add to that mix wage stagnation and the increasingly common view — held by 91 percent in France — that today’s children will not have better lives than their parents. Finally, the decline of organized religion, especially pronounced in Western Europe, has created a spiritual vacuum and a crisis of meaning.

    In response, people want something beyond more income redistribution (what the left is offering) or more globalization (what the pre-populist right used to offer). People want ideas and inspiration, and when no good new ideas are put forward, the current default seems to be nationalist ideas, including of the less tolerant variety.

    Macron doesn’t have any new ideas or vision, however much you might like the old ideas he has embraced. And so, however promising it might have seemed at first, his tenure has accelerated the collapse of the traditional European liberal order. For some time, his approval ratings in France have been lower than those of U.S. President Donald Trump.

    If you doubt the lack of inspiration, consider Macron’s response to the protests, outlined in his recently televised speech. In lieu of ideas, or for that matter cold-hearted technocracy, he served up abject financial pandering. He promised to boost the minimum wage by 100 euros per month, but at no cost to employers. He also promised no taxes or charges on overtime in 2019, and he requested employers to pay year-end bonuses, which would be tax-exempt, and he canceled the charges on some pensions.

    Some of those may be acceptable changes. But when you throw money at protesters, you are likely to get further protests and rising demands. Buying off the opposition works best when it is not explicitly framed as such. It is harder yet to pay political tribute when you are not building much of an inspiring vision for the future.

    France now runs some chance of becoming the next Italy, complete with fiscal irresponsibility, and it is hard to see the nation as having the political strength or domestic consensus to hold the European Union together. The French have an amazing country: high labor productivity, a quality civil service, incredible vacations, and perhaps the most refined level of cultural taste in the world. Yet all that, sadly, is not enough. A quick comparison with 19th-century French culture, with its emphasis on progress, utopia and the rationalization of social systems, shows just how much the forward-looking perspective is lacking.

    The one intellectual group that really gets what is going on right now are the much-maligned libertarians. For decades they have been told that they are too analytical, that they lack empathy, that they don’t have much to offer the public in the way of inspiration. For all the (mostly failed) attempts to pretend otherwise, that is mostly true — and libertarians have to hope that analytical perspectives become more ascendant.

    The thing is, libertarians are used to dealing with this weakness. Neither the progressive left nor the more mainstream neoliberal crowd knows how to handle it. Because they can’t quite believe their vision is so weak and unappealing, they keep looking for another savior. Macron is the latest fall guy.

    In America, the left’s rejoinder is often simple: More income redistribution is necessary. This French backlash, as well as the rise of populist alt-right ideas in Germany and the Nordic countries, is making that remedy seem increasingly implausible.

    The French protests have been especially painful for environmentally oriented reformers. The main demand of the yellow-vest movement has been a repeal of gasoline taxes— in other words, carbon taxes, which might alleviate climate change. That is the ultimate technocratic policy, but it has now caused four weeks of riots in one of the West’s most important and beautiful cities, the very one where the world agreed three years ago to take action on climate change.

    In this drama there are sweeping historical forces, spiritual and ideological vacuums, and remarkably few heroes. The sooner we realize that, the better.

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  • vicsinad
    Senior Member
    • May 2011
    • 2337

    #2
    Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
    This French backlash, as well as the rise of populist alt-right ideas in Germany and the Nordic countries, is making that remedy seem increasingly implausible.

    The French protests have been especially painful for environmentally oriented reformers. The main demand of the yellow-vest movement has been a repeal of gasoline taxes— in other words, carbon taxes, which might alleviate climate change. That is the ultimate technocratic policy, but it has now caused four weeks of riots in one of the West’s most important and beautiful cities, the very one where the world agreed three years ago to take action on climate change.

    I think non-French political commentators are skewing these protests to fit their political agendas. Yes, many of these protestors are out there shouting against the high carbon tax and immigration policies. But they also want the wealthier to pay higher taxes, their own overtime pay and bonuses not to be taxed, and the minimum wage to go up. Many also believe in fighting climate change, but that the corporations should be regulated/taxed more, not the individuals. They want higher pensions and a fairer social security system. The protestors don't fit in this neat little liberal or conservative or libertarian bubble.


    Not that I particularly care about what's happening in France, but I do think our media commentators need to check their rhetoric and not spin every event/movement into some sort of worldwide trend that fits the particular viewpoint of the author.

    Comment

    • Gocka
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2012
      • 2306

      #3
      Do you think there is a worldwide trend?

      Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
      Not that I particularly care about what's happening in France, but I do think our media commentators need to check their rhetoric and not spin every event/movement into some sort of worldwide trend that fits the particular viewpoint of the author.
      I think there is a trend at least in the western developed world. Just not the one that is commonly portrayed. I think western society has been in stagnation for quite some time now, and it is teetering on the edge of a cliff from which there is no coming back.

      The political establishment and the press who cover it can't seem to set aside their preconceived notions and they constantly try and place everything in these neat boxes of the past.

      In western society the so called middle class is discontent with the status quo and have been for a decade or more. They have swung between the traditional political spectrum multiple times to no avail. I think they are fed up and no longer believe in many of the social, political, and economic norms that western society is built upon post WW2. These movements are misunderstood. People are tired of the grind, materialism can only satisfy for so long before it has no effect.

      I see it all around me. The stand of living has peaked on leveled off for most people. They have enough money to purchase most of the things they want. All the newest gadgets and trinkets and simple luxuries. They can't move any higher up the ladder and consume any more than they do, so they start getting a little bored. Their jobs are mundane and repetitive, they have nothing new left to buy, the future looks much like the present.

      Meanwhile the political class has used up all its goodwill. They promise the same tired ideological, both left and right. Society has already tried these ideologies multiple times and no longer believes in them. Factor in that most people no longer believe in god, so their isn't that to keep them in check and give them a purpose.

      Its all looking a bit scary from my perspective. I think we are up critical event from everything going up in flames.

      The real test will be 2019 and 2020. Europe is set to go into recession by the end of 2019 or starting in 2020, causing the USA to follow suit a year or two later. If you think people are mad now, wait until they get hit economically. Most people hardly got back on their feet from the last recession. Europe is ripe for chaos. People want to blame it on a more radical left and a more radical right, but its much more complicated than that.

      The systems of old have run their course. They were based on constant economic growth and upward mobility. Coupled with consumerism and technological advancement. All of which was always going to be unsustainable. People want change, for better or for worse.

      Capitalism is an unsustainable system. The end result is no different than any other socio-economic system before it. Every system humans have implemented has always ended in the same way. The means end up more and more concentrated to the point of unsuitability, then revolt by the masses, collapse, redistribution, implementation of a new system and repeat. Problem is I think we are out of systems to try. Communism was supposed to be the one that fixed it all, but humans being humans, that concept is doomed from the start.

      I consider France an ominous precursor if you look at history as an example.

      Or.... I could be wrong

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        #4
        I think this is what happens when you give the toxic left air to breathe. It's starting to come home to roost now and the consequences are yet to reach their full potential. The west or left is starting to resemble an overgrown governmental department. Full of bureaucracy and empowerment and rights and left with nobody to do the actual work. the rest of the world will catch up quickly but the pendulum will swing back eventually. At least I hope so.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • vicsinad
          Senior Member
          • May 2011
          • 2337

          #5
          Originally posted by Gocka View Post
          Do you think there is a worldwide trend?



          I think there is a trend at least in the western developed world. Just not the one that is commonly portrayed. I think western society has been in stagnation for quite some time now, and it is teetering on the edge of a cliff from which there is no coming back.

          The political establishment and the press who cover it can't seem to set aside their preconceived notions and they constantly try and place everything in these neat boxes of the past.

          In western society the so called middle class is discontent with the status quo and have been for a decade or more. They have swung between the traditional political spectrum multiple times to no avail. I think they are fed up and no longer believe in many of the social, political, and economic norms that western society is built upon post WW2. These movements are misunderstood. People are tired of the grind, materialism can only satisfy for so long before it has no effect.

          I see it all around me. The stand of living has peaked on leveled off for most people. They have enough money to purchase most of the things they want. All the newest gadgets and trinkets and simple luxuries. They can't move any higher up the ladder and consume any more than they do, so they start getting a little bored. Their jobs are mundane and repetitive, they have nothing new left to buy, the future looks much like the present.

          Meanwhile the political class has used up all its goodwill. They promise the same tired ideological, both left and right. Society has already tried these ideologies multiple times and no longer believes in them. Factor in that most people no longer believe in god, so their isn't that to keep them in check and give them a purpose.

          Its all looking a bit scary from my perspective. I think we are up critical event from everything going up in flames.

          The real test will be 2019 and 2020. Europe is set to go into recession by the end of 2019 or starting in 2020, causing the USA to follow suit a year or two later. If you think people are mad now, wait until they get hit economically. Most people hardly got back on their feet from the last recession. Europe is ripe for chaos. People want to blame it on a more radical left and a more radical right, but its much more complicated than that.

          The systems of old have run their course. They were based on constant economic growth and upward mobility. Coupled with consumerism and technological advancement. All of which was always going to be unsustainable. People want change, for better or for worse.

          Capitalism is an unsustainable system. The end result is no different than any other socio-economic system before it. Every system humans have implemented has always ended in the same way. The means end up more and more concentrated to the point of unsuitability, then revolt by the masses, collapse, redistribution, implementation of a new system and repeat. Problem is I think we are out of systems to try. Communism was supposed to be the one that fixed it all, but humans being humans, that concept is doomed from the start.

          I consider France an ominous precursor if you look at history as an example.

          Or.... I could be wrong
          Baba Vanga was waaay ahead of you brat

          BABA Vanga, the blind mystic who many claimed predicted the rise of ISIS, 9/11 and Brexit, envisioned a series of disasters to take place during 2019, including a European economic collapse, Donald Trump falling ill and Russia being hit by a meteorite.


          Baba Vanga SHOCKING predictions for 2019: Trump ILLNESS and EU economic COLLAPSE

          BABA Vanga, the blind mystic who many claimed predicted the rise of ISIS, 9/11 and Brexit, envisioned a series of disasters to take place during 2019, including a European economic collapse, Donald Trump falling ill and Russia being hit by a meteorite.

          The blind Macedonian died in 1996 from breast cancer but she is said to have had visions of future events up to the 51st century, when the mystic said the universe will end. According to the mystic, who was born as Vangelia Pandeva Dimitrova in Strumica, Macedonia, 2019 will be filled with natural disasters, economic catastrophes and dangers to the lives of two world leaders. Baba Vanga said a member of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s security team will attempt to kill him within the next 12 months.
          In all seriousness, I think there is a lot of frustration on the part of the masses. It's not as dramatic as the media has portrayed it to be, but the increasing sensationalism and confusion inserted into this whole mess is definitely escalating problems that are otherwise manageable. But, as Risto has said, it's a pendulum and will always be so. The Left has become power hungry, which has caused the Right to increasingly become attached to far-fetched conspiracy theories, and fewer people are willing to come back to reason and moderation.

          Comment

          • Gocka
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2012
            • 2306

            #6
            LMAO. My mother in law calls me Baba Vanga. She swears that when I say stuff, it happens, and its usually bad stuff. I'm not allowed to say things in front of her, she will start shushing me and tel me, Аманте не вели ништо со таја уста твоја.

            Don't believe me? Here are a few of my greatest hits.

            2017: Me my wife and my mother in law are flying to Macedonia out of NYC. When we got into the airport I commented that something didn't feel right. Half an hour later while waiting for our departure flight a plane catches fire on the runway right in front of our eyes. They lock down the airport and the runways. We miss our connecting flight in the UK because of the delays. I was banned from speaking during the entire flight for fear of the airplane crashing.

            2018: Visited my wife's grandmother. Something was off about the woman, I had a bad vibe. 6 months later she dies mysteriously while in hospital. She was not that old only 68, and no known health issues. Still don't know why she died. She originally was admitted because of a sudden onset paralysis of her legs. I think she died of a blood clot or infection.

            2018 to Present: My in-laws wanted to send $25,000 to Macedonia. I told them it was a bad idea to send that large of a sum. That was 6 weeks ago. Something went wrong with the transaction. It was never received in Macedonia and now they are having trouble getting the money back. The problem is still unresolved.

            So you better watch out. I can crash your plane, kill your grandmother, and make your money disappear.


            That old bag can't compare to me!


            Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
            Baba Vanga was waaay ahead of you brat

            BABA Vanga, the blind mystic who many claimed predicted the rise of ISIS, 9/11 and Brexit, envisioned a series of disasters to take place during 2019, including a European economic collapse, Donald Trump falling ill and Russia being hit by a meteorite.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              #7
              Originally posted by Gocka View Post
              2018 to Present: My in-laws wanted to send $25,000 to Macedonia. I told them it was a bad idea to send that large of a sum. That was 6 weeks ago. Something went wrong with the transaction. It was never received in Macedonia and now they are having trouble getting the money back. The problem is still unresolved.
              I can't comment on the rest, but this one .... OMG, sending money to that corrupt shithole .... it's someone in the Macedonian bank, guaranteed. That is enough to retire on over there!
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Gocka
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 2306

                #8
                Yea the father in law is not the sharpest tool in the shed. He has been in the USA for 2 years now and that was everything he saved up. I told him to take the money and start a life for his other kids here, but he was intent on sending the money there and doing god knows what with it, probably buy and apartment in Ohrid or something. I keep telling him the country is on the verge of collapse and to not waste his money there but he doesn't want to accept reality and still hasn't let go of some boyhood dreams of his. I pleaded with him to send it little by little if he was set on sending it all. He didn't listen and here we are.

                Back in my accounting days I oversaw international wire payments, we made 100's of payment to everywhere in the world and I never saw a problem like this. Someone is holding this up deliberately. We will see what happens.

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                I can't comment on the rest, but this one .... OMG, sending money to that corrupt shithole .... it's someone in the Macedonian bank, guaranteed. That is enough to retire on over there!

                Comment

                • Phoenix
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 4671

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                  ...The real test will be 2019 and 2020. Europe is set to go into recession by the end of 2019 or starting in 2020, causing the USA to follow suit a year or two later. If you think people are mad now, wait until they get hit economically. Most people hardly got back on their feet from the last recession. Europe is ripe for chaos. People want to blame it on a more radical left and a more radical right, but its much more complicated than that...
                  The global economy is choking on unprecedented debt levels, something has to give sooner or later.

                  Australia, after almost 30 years of unabated economic growth, the OECD ‘poster boy’ in this regard, is on the verge of economic armeggedon...if it turns to shit in this country, most people under the age of 40-45 will be wiped out financially...this under 45 years of age demographic has never experienced an economic downturn, has never seen widespread unemployment, has never seen interest rates above 7-8%, has never had trouble borrowing vast amounts of money and has been able to conveniently manage rising household debt...until now.

                  If the shit hits the fan anywhere in the domestic and/or international economy it’s gonna turn really ugly for most Australians.

                  Comment

                  • Gocka
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 2306

                    #10
                    Profit.

                    It is the sole reason that this system is destine for collapse at one point or another.

                    Imagine if we played a sport, any sport, and the rules were that the winner gets to start the next match with their winning margin from the previous match. So if you won the first match 4-2, you get to start the next one 2-0 up. Imagine if that system perpetuates. How long before one side is up so much that the match is a forgone conclusion?

                    The companies we work for and purchase from, always keep a little extra off the top of everything we do. We get paid, but they kept more than what it cost to pay us. We go out with our pay and buy their products and they keep more than what it cost them for that product. In all our interactions with them we always end up with less than they do. That compounds and compounds. Thus money has no choice but to accumulate in the hands of the winners.

                    Its nothing sinister. That is the system we created and it has produced a good standard of living and relative stability for a long time. The reason it worked for a long time is because it didn't work for everyone. It only worked for the developed world that could participate and compete in that system. That was originally a hand full of powerful nations.

                    The concept of capitalism is that the pie is ever expanding, and that the more players that get in on the game create a larger pie for everyone. The problem is that now with the rest of the world catching up quickly, that pie is looking ever smaller. To the point where certain countries start to loose shares of the pie they once had.

                    The pie may be ever expanding as populations rise, but what no one ever accounted for is what happens when the pie is consumed faster than it grows?

                    Developed markets are becoming saturated and growth in the developing world is much more contested by local players than ever before. The perennial heavyweights are finding it more and more difficult to keep growing. But our entire systems are built upon constant growth.

                    Everyone is content when standards of living keep going up, but the second they move even marginally lower they feel as if the sky is falling, even if their relative standard is still very high. That right there encapsulates Europe's big wigs. France, Germany, etc; their economies won't crumble to pieces, but their societies will when they can no longer keep standards of living going up.

                    That is where the EU came in, to try and alleviate that problem. But the EU as a concept is failing, right at the moment when it will be needed the most. The USA is in a slightly better position only because of the shear scale and unified nature, but because they are tied so tightly to the world economy that they can't escape decline either.

                    This bloated debt you reference was the last hoorah to keep things going for just a little while longer. Organic growth became scarce, so you pump debt into the economy to keep consumption going in hopes that you find organic growth somewhere down the line and repay the debts.

                    It all has to implode sooner or later. The question is who gets it the worst and who finds a way to benefit.

                    Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                    The global economy is choking on unprecedented debt levels, something has to give sooner or later.

                    Australia, after almost 30 years of unabated economic growth, the OECD ‘poster boy’ in this regard, is on the verge of economic armeggedon...if it turns to shit in this country, most people under the age of 40-45 will be wiped out financially...this under 45 years of age demographic has never experienced an economic downturn, has never seen widespread unemployment, has never seen interest rates above 7-8%, has never had trouble borrowing vast amounts of money and has been able to conveniently manage rising household debt...until now.

                    If the shit hits the fan anywhere in the domestic and/or international economy it’s gonna turn really ugly for most Australians.

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      #11
                      France and Italy's rising tensions are as ‘high as WWII’ – should we be worried?

                      The recalling of an ambassador between two major states which are members of the European Union and Nato is an extraordinary step. That Paris declared that this was in response to rhetoric which had reached an aggression ‘without precedent’ since the war reflects the sheer rise in tension which has taken place

                      Kim Sengupta

                      Roberto Salvini, the Italian deputy minister, has advised the French to get rid of their “terrible leader” Emmanuel Macron, and apparently throws darts at a picture of the French president. Macron has described right-wing populism of the Rome government as a kind of “leprosy” spreading across Europe. Italy has even threatened to stop a loan of Leonardo da Vinci’s works for a show in Paris at the Louvre. France has now recalled its ambassador to Rome in protest at antagonism it says has reached the level of the Second World War.

                      All this, one may say, puts the view of Donald Tusk that irresponsible Brexiting politicians deserve a special place in hell into perspective. The UK leaving the European Union may resemble the various long retreats from Moscow at the end of failed campaigns; but the real diplomatic warfare threatened in Europe is now between France and Italy.

                      The recalling of an ambassador between two major states which are members of the European Union and Nato is an extraordinary step. That Paris declared that this was in response to rhetoric which had reached an aggression “without precedent since World War Two”, evoking Mussolini’s fascist Italy while France was under Nazi occupation, reflects the sheer rise in tension that has taken place.

                      At one level this state of affairs between these two countries sharing a border is a reflection of the wider political confrontation taking place in Europe and beyond. Italy’s administration of the far-right Northern League and the anti-establishment Five Star Movement is a manifestation of populism which has spread through the continent, while Macron’s La Republique En Marche! government can be viewed as representing, generally, traditional parliamentary politics.

                      It has also become personal. With Angela Merkel starting her withdrawal from public life, it is Macron who is presenting himself as the champion of western neoliberalism, taking on France’s own gilets jaunes (yellow vest) protestors and other populist movements, warning against its rise in the continent and clashing with Donald Trump.

                      Full article here:


                      Google News full coverage:
                      Last edited by Carlin; 02-09-2019, 03:40 AM.

                      Comment

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