Macedonian Language - 16th Century

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  • TrueMacedonian
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3810

    #61
    It's interesting how Westerners in the 19th century knew there was a difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian and still call it 'Bulgarian' or sometimes both 'Macedonian' and 'Bulgarian'. Here's something from a letter written in 1860;

    Although the interest of the Bulgarians themselves in the Scriptures was very great, one of the news papers having made the statement that "it is the study of the Bible which makes a nation great," and recommended the study of the Scriptures throughout ihe country, yet it was not till 1864 that an entire Bible was given to that people, the printing having been done at Constantinople. In the annual report for the year 1860, the Rev. S. It. Bergne communicates the following, which we subjoin:

    " It appears that there is some difference between the Macedonian, or Western, and the Eastern dialects of the Bulgarian. Formerly the Western dialect was in the ascendant, but latterly it is becoming superseded by the Eastern. There is a review and several newspapers published in Bulgaria; these adopt the Eastern dialect: and there is every probability that. In a short time, it will push out the Western dialect so far as the literary character of the language Is concerned. Our New Test. Is In the Western dialect; the translation was made tweuty years since at Smyrna, by a monk of the name of Neophytus, and was carefully examined by a bishop. It was printed for the first time In 1840. Poor Photiuoff, of whose character every one speaks in the highest terms, was engaged with Dr. Riggs in the translation of the Old Test., audiu the early pari of the work favored the Western dialect: but in correcting the work, as well as In the latter portion of the translation, he adopted the Eastern dialect; and Dr. Riggs feels assnred that If his life bad been spared he would have followed this course throughout the whole translation. Either dialect can be read in all parts of the country, but as the Macedonian is going into disuse, so far as literature is concerned, it would be extremely undesirable that It should be adopted in the Scriptures. Photiuoff was very auxious to complete the work, and persevered In it, In spite of every remonstrance, almost to the day of his death. The present reviser, who succeeded Photiuoff, and is a good scholar, follows the Eastern dialect. The revision of the Old Test, has proceeded as fur as the Pentateuch; and Dr. Riggs is now desirous of going to press with as little delay as possible. Separate books of the Old Test, have already beeu printed ; but instead of fixing ou detached books, it is recommended that the whole of the Old Test, should be printed consecutively, say, In three parts — the first portion containing the Pentateuch, the second closing with the historical books or Job, aud the third including the resL Small editions, perhaps one thousand copies, are proposed. These copies will be placed in the bauds of competent judges for remarks nnu criticisms, aud by the lime the last part is printed the necessary materials will be possessed for commencing the edition of the Bible in one volume. Dr. Riggs states that some slight changes will be desirable in the New Test., to bring the dialect into strict conformity with that adopted in the Old Test."

    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #62
      This is quite interesting TM.
      Macedonian was not going into disuse at all. It was being bled dry. Starting with the loss of the Ohrid archbishopric and ending with the Greek/Turkish collusion to destroy us. How could things have ended so poorly for the providers of the glorious language of the Macedonians!
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • osiris
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1969

        #63
        rtg i hope you show this evidence to your client from bagatsko

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #64
          From TM's link:
          It appears that there is some difference between the Macedonian, or Western, and the Eastern dialects of the Bulgarian. Formerly the Western dialect was in the ascendant, but latterly it is becoming superseded by the Eastern.
          What a shame, if only these people knew that a Macedonian state would re-emerge one day to serve as keeper of the Macedonian dialects, they would not have tried to supress it to insignificance. Either way, they failed, Macedonian still lives, and will continue to do so.

          And still we wait for one of these Bulgars that sign up irregularly at the MTO to show us an example of what the language in Pliska looked like 500 years ago. Seems like they're instead too busy trying to deny the Macedonian identity rather than justify their own, or maybe that is the only way they can justify it.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Serdarot
            Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 605

            #65
            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            ...Seems like they're instead too busy trying to deny the Macedonian identity rather than justify their own, or maybe that is the only way they can justify it.
            bull´s eye
            Bratot:
            Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #66
              Bump.

              In case anybody has forgotten that the language of the Macedonians has remain basically unchanged for over 500 years!!
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                #67
                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                And still we wait for one of these Bulgars that sign up irregularly at the MTO to show us an example of what the language in Pliska looked like 500 years ago.
                Yes indeed.
                And while we are at it, how about Greeks, Albanians and Serbs do the same for us.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #68
                  Indeed.

                  I notice this thread has been avoided completely by Macedonia's neighbouring people, one wonders why. Perhaps they're more interested in social or other labels for the people, rather than the actual content in the text.

                  I can be a dreamer, and ask, all politics aside, can any of our neighbours provide such a relevant comparison in terms of language preservation from 500 years ago? But who am I asking, none appear willing to meet the simple request about the history of their own languages, yet all of them are seemingly 'expert' historians on Macedonia. Go figure.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Daskalot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 4345

                    #69
                    No takers on Risto's and SoM's requests? Strange.
                    Macedonian Truth Organisation

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      #70
                      Let me take a stab at it.
                      The Greeks have been horrified by this article. They are shocked to their core at the direct attack on their identity. It is difficult for them to talk of a Greece of 180 years ago and here we are with a language documented half a millennium ago that has direct if not exact relationships with modern Macedonian. It is a knife through their collective hearts and the fact that the language is in a place that many would prefer to call a Greek or Albanian stronghold in historical times .... (even though the etymology of the village name is nothing but Macedonian) ... just hurts them that little bit more.

                      They have no answer Daskalot. They never will because to answer this will force them to look at themselves first. They will not like what they see. They may even develop a sensation of guilt over time .... they much prefer to hate us instead.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • lavce pelagonski
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2009
                        • 1993

                        #71
                        It truly is a great language we speak, every world has a meaning and specific words can make many other words.

                        voda=vodi=vodac=vodaci=voditel=vodici=ect...
                        Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

                        „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Risto the Great
                          They never will because to answer this will force them to look at themselves first. They will not like what they see. They may even develop a sensation of guilt over time .... they much prefer to hate us instead.
                          I agree. I would still like to see it though, should any of them be game one day and produce some local literature like this from Macedonia in their own languages, so we can compare.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #73
                            Bump (in the traditional manner lol).

                            500 + years, and the language of the Macedonian people remains essentially the same!

                            Can you say the same about your own language?
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              #74
                              Perhaps nobody else is willing to truthfully look at themselves in the rest of the Balkans SoM. Some evidence from say a Greek about their language 500 years ago anywhere in the region of Macedonia (no less) would be excellent and quite probably .... asking too much.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                #75
                                We seem to have a few Albanians around.
                                Is there any Albanian texts from Macedonia dating back 500 years ago that we can have a look at?
                                How about from Albania around 500 years ago?
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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