Dedo Iljo Vojvoda fought with his 206 Macedonians!

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  • Chicho Makedonski
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2019
    • 47

    #46
    Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
    This quote is taken from a Serbian book about the Serbian-Bulgarian war of 1885.
    Somehow Macedonians are to be found in it......



    Source: "Istorija srpsko-bugarskog rata 1885" By Vladan Đorđević, 1908, page 389.

    Brief translation into English:


    There were Macedonians fighting in the war of 1885, where was Tito?
    Who did these Macedonians help in the Serbian-Bulgarian war of 1885, the Serbians or Bulgarians and why?

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #47
      Originally posted by Chicho Makedonski View Post
      Who did these Macedonians help in the Serbian-Bulgarian war of 1885, the Serbians or Bulgarians and why?
      Without being able to read the rest of that quote for more context, it appears that they supported Bulgaria. Serbia started the war in 1885 because its hopes of expansion into Bosnia were curtailed by Austria-Hungary. The latter encouraged Serbia to act against an expanding Bulgaria instead, which had just annexed Eastern Rumelia. That annexation was supported by some notable Macedonians and they disagreed with Serbia attacking Bulgaria just because they had recently liberated more territory from the Ottomans. Prior to that, many Macedonians served as volunteers to support anti-Ottoman activities in both Serbia and Bulgaria. These two countries repaid that courtesy around 30 years later by occupying and dividing Macedonia.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • MakedoNatus
        Junior Member
        • Oct 2020
        • 3

        #48
        With its foundations almost two meters underground, the church dedicated to the Emperor Constantine and the Empress Helena in the Delcevo village of Razlovci, eastern Macedonia, nowadays is still proudly telling its story about the courageous rebels. Surrounded by a beautiful grassy yard, the church is emitting its uniqueness and triggers off the curiosity of guests to enter the church and feel the spirit of ktetors, to see with their eyes almost closed the shadows of the rebels and to hear their voice calling to fight for liberation against the Ottoman Empire. And, the heavy ancient wooden door is separating the interior of the church from its entire mystical world from the outside world.


        Church doors can be still opened with a 200-year-old key

        The secret of the old church lies in a unique key, made two centuries ago by one of the ktetors of the church, Stoill Kovach. The key can open the old wooden door even today and it is carefully being handled by grandma Elena Sumracha, who looks after it like ‘an apple of her eye.’

        “Stoil Kovach, one of the ktetors of the church, had made two keys of this kind. But, one of them had been lost over the years, so I’m keeping this one because it is the only key that unlocks the door. I’m taking care of the key, the church and when guests are coming over, I’m more than pleased to welcome them and to open the door. For us, this is a precious key, because it had been made by Stoil Kovach himself,” says grandma Elena with a beaming smile.

        Church’s ktetors immortalized in frescoes
        Stone steps lead us down the stairs in the church. Although its western section is poorly lit, one can start to recognize the faces of the four ktetors of the church.

        The first one painted on the wall is father Stojan, the leader of the Uprising of Razlovci, while Cone Spasev, Stojan Gjorgov and Stoil Kovac are right next to him. After the uprising was suppressed, father Stojan before leaving the village had covered his portrait with quicklime and ash. It remained in this condition for 100 years. It was unveiled in 1976 to mark the centenary of the Uprising of Razlovci.

        As there are no written documents about the construction of the church, folklorist Dimitar Uzunski has done a research for his monograph about Razlovci. He says he has used a myriad of folk tales that had been passed from generation to generation.

        In the mid-19th century, the village of Razlovci was without a church. Church rituals had to be performed in a far away, deserted church. Father Stojan, who was one of the richest men in the region, came to an idea to build a church in the village so that villagers no longer had to travel to a nearby church. His idea was immediately backed by Cone Spasev and his two sons-in-law, Stoil Gjorgov and Gjorgjija Terziski. They were later joined by Stoil Kovach. They formed a smaller group of well-off men who could fund the construction.
        However, the construction was obstructed by Ottoman authorities by banning building of a new church. To realize their idea, the ktetors conceived a cunning plan.

        “Cone Spasev had suggested the villagers bring a stone cross from an old church and bury the cross. And the villagers did just that – they had buried the cross and had resumed to build. After three days, the Ottomans had come there with an intent to stop the building. The residents started convincing them that a church had been built there before and to prove it, they started digging. After a while, they came across the buried cross, which had left the Ottomans ashamed. However, they gave one condition – the church must not be high,” Uzunski says

        The construction took place sometime in 1850. The whole village, men and women, was engaged in building the church.

        Rare icons
        The iconostasis, which depicts scenes from the Old Testament, a scene of Adam and Eve in heaven and in hell, is quite rich. Protopriest Atanas Popovski, a descendant of father Stojan – the leader of Razlovci rebels – told us the secret behind the rich iconostatis in the local church.

        The icons were painted by Vasilie Zograf, who had left a small inscription on the icon of St. Mary, the Mother of God. Purposefully, St. Mary is portrayed as holding her right hand next to her body as if thought pointing to the inscription. The Macedonia sun was painted several times on the iconostasis, according to Popovski. One of the icons, he says, has an inscription that reads that it had been completed on 10 December 1859, which means the church had been built a couple of years before.
        The suns painted in the church a special and unique moment – a sun with eight and sixteen rays, similar to those of the ancient Macedonian dynasty of Argead. Also, the church keeps a unique, rate icon of the Macedonian saint Gjorgi Janinski.


        The church and the uprising
        Some senior villagers says the church had been completed in early June. It was then when it had been decided that the church would be named after Emperor Constantine and Empress Helena. To this day, the village of Razlovci celebrates the occasion as an official day of the village.

        During the period leading to the Uprising of Razlovci, the church of Sts. Constantine and Helena would serve as a gathering place for all the rebels, who would make preparations for the uprising. It would serve as a hotspot that would begin to spread and ignite the desire for fight, for freedom and for a better and happier life.
        The church is considered a synonym of the spiritual and rebellious life in Razlovci and its region.
        The church is the place where in 1876, father Stojan and his son-in-law Dimitar Pop Gjeorgiev would lead 30 rebels from Razlovci into the first, authentic Macedonian armed uprising against the Ottoman rule.
        The month of May is unmistakably marked by the village to honor the anniversary of the Uprising of Razlovci. It was suppressed by late May by a heightened Ottoman army. Most of the rebels had been killed, others had been jailed. Father Stojan had managed to escape the Ottoman authorities by hiding in a monastery. Upon being busted, he had once again managed to escape, but this time he claimed his own life.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #50
          Welcome MN. Great piece and pictures. Bravo.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Gocka
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2012
            • 2306

            #51
            Doesn't it break your heart to see the use of the 8 and 16 rayed sun all over frescos in a 200 year old church and then realize that a corrupt and spineless Macedonian government and an apathetic and desperate people just let Greece have it all. That somehow we let them convince the world and even convince many Macedonians that somehow those symbols were Greek and only Greek. Someone painted those for a reason, it meant something to them, they had no clue and couldn't have foreseen that one day those symbols would somehow become political.

            It truly saddens me that something so simple and innocent could be given/taken away so easily and with so little regret. Its like pawning off a family heirloom and using the money to buy booze or cigarettes' and pissing it away with no remorse.

            There was no name dispute then, someone just felt that symbol represented their heritage and put it there. Now some makala is going to tell me that Tito convinced us to use those symbols.

            Still don't don't full accept that we are where we are.

            Comment

            • MakedoNatus
              Junior Member
              • Oct 2020
              • 3

              #52
              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              Welcome MN. Great piece and pictures. Bravo.
              Thanks RTG.

              I can only recommend to anyone if possible, go and see it for your self.
              It's very unique experience.

              I have had heard about the church and the uprising so many things, so much denial by tatars and grks so I decided to see for myself.
              I didn't regret.


              @Gocka yes I share the sentiment, shame on the traitors
              Last edited by MakedoNatus; 11-14-2020, 03:19 AM.

              Comment

              • Chicho Makedonski
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2019
                • 47

                #53
                Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                Doesn't it break your heart to see the use of the 8 and 16 rayed sun all over frescos in a 200 year old church and then realize that a corrupt and spineless Macedonian government and an apathetic and desperate people just let Greece have it all. That somehow we let them convince the world and even convince many Macedonians that somehow those symbols were Greek and only Greek. Someone painted those for a reason, it meant something to them, they had no clue and couldn't have foreseen that one day those symbols would somehow become political.

                It truly saddens me that something so simple and innocent could be given/taken away so easily and with so little regret. Its like pawning off a family heirloom and using the money to buy booze or cigarettes' and pissing it away with no remorse.

                There was no name dispute then, someone just felt that symbol represented their heritage and put it there. Now some makala is going to tell me that Tito convinced us to use those symbols.

                Still don't don't full accept that we are where we are.
                Nobody can rightfully say that the Macedonian sun is a ‘Greek symbol’, regardless of any racist anti-Macedonian agreements the treacherous leading Macedonian political party SDSM agree on.

                The Macedonian sun is a Macedonian cultural symbol that represents the Macedonian heritage and the tribes that made up the Macedonian nation in ancient times. For most illustrations throughout time each ray represents a tribe that made up the Macedonian nation. The Macedonian sun ranged from 6 to a total of 16 rays, depicting the amount of related Indo-European tribes that made up the Macedonian nation at different times. There was a total of 16 rays equaling the 16 Macedonian tribes. Although later there are some illustrations with less rays, the Macedonian sun in general has always been a symbol of the Macedonian heritage.

                The Ancient Greeks had their own religious Greek sun symbol that they rarely used in order to most likely honour the god of the sun – Helios or to just draw the sun in the sky with no strong meaning. Although the Ancient Greeks drew the sun similar to the Macedonian sun, the sun in general was never a cultural symbol of their people but the Macedonian sun has always been the symbol of the Macedonians. The Macedonians preserved the Macedonian sun throughout time and the modern Macedonians used it in public areas as early as the 1700/1800’s, while the modern Greeks didn’t even know of the Macedonian sun until 1978 when they found it on the tomb of Phillip II of Macedon in Aegean Macedonia which was wrongfully given to Greece in 1913. Before 1913 Aegean Macedonia was never part of Greece nor were the Greeks ever the majority of the population, therefore Aegean Macedonia doesn’t belong to the Greeks, Aegean Macedonia belongs to the ethnic Macedonians as the Macedonians have always been the majority of the population of the whole region of Macedonia since ancient times.

                Comment

                • Amphipolis
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 1328

                  #54
                  Originally posted by Chicho Makedonski View Post
                  The Macedonian sun represents the Macedonian heritage and the tribes that made up the Macedonian nation in ancient times. For most illustrations throughout time each ray represents a tribe that made up the Macedonian nation. The Macedonian sun ranged from 6 to a total of 16 rays, depicting the amount of related Indo-European tribes that made up the Macedonian nation at different times. There was a total of 16 rays equaling the 16 Macedonian tribes.
                  I think this is a modern legend initiated by [who?] and there are no sources behind this view.

                  Comment

                  • Amphipolis
                    Banned
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 1328

                    #55
                    Originally posted by Chicho Makedonski View Post
                    The Macedonians preserved the Macedonian sun throughout time and the modern Macedonians used it in public areas as early as the 1700/1800’s, while the modern Greeks didn’t even know of the Macedonian sun until 1978 when they found it on the tomb of Phillip II of Macedon in Aegean Macedonia which was wrongfully given to Greece in 1913. Before 1913 Aegean Macedonia was never part of Greece nor were the Greeks ever the majority of the population, therefore Aegean Macedonia doesn’t belong to the Greeks, Aegean Macedonia belongs to the ethnic Macedonians as the Macedonians have always been the majority of the population of the whole region of Macedonia since ancient times.
                    This is also obviously wrong. You would have never used this flag if it wasn't for Vergina excavations and you had never used the exact symbol (or its' variations), in any meaningful manner, before 1978.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      #56
                      Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                      This is also obviously wrong. You would have never used this flag if it wasn't for Vergina excavations and you had never used the exact symbol (or its' variations), in any meaningful manner, before 1978.
                      It was freely chosen by free Macedonians and has relevance all over Macedonia.
                      Tell me who chose the Greek flag and why it reminds us of the BMW logo.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Amphipolis
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1328

                        #57
                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        ... and has relevance all over Macedonia.
                        Yeah, big relevance. As I already said, no one would have stated or imagined that before 1978.

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #58
                          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                          Yeah, big relevance. As I already said, no one would have stated or imagined that before 1978.
                          I would have chosen the lion personally. But you shouldn't mess with the will of a free nation, unless you are a dictatorial and genocidal geographical neighbour.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Chicho Makedonski
                            Junior Member
                            • Feb 2019
                            • 47

                            #59
                            Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                            I think this is a modern legend initiated by [who?] and there are no sources behind this view.
                            It’s common sense, at the start of Phillip II of Macedon’s reign there were only 6 rays on the Macedonian sun but as Ancient Macedonia proper grew and more tribes became part of the Macedonian nation, more rays were added equaling the 16 Macedonian tribes. I’ve seen fellow Macedonians speak of this theory and it makes sense.

                            Comment

                            • Chicho Makedonski
                              Junior Member
                              • Feb 2019
                              • 47

                              #60
                              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                              This is also obviously wrong. You would have never used this flag if it wasn't for Vergina excavations and you had never used the exact symbol (or its' variations), in any meaningful manner, before 1978.
                              Hahahaha the Macedonians used the Macedonian sun symbol as their flag once they gained independence in 1991 because it is the cultural symbol of the ethnic Macedonians since ancient times. The modern Macedonians used the Macedonian sun in churches, church doors, church bells as early as the 1700/1800’s. Clearly it was a symbol of the Macedonian heritage and important to the Macedonians.

                              Comment

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