Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
    A valuable lesson learned from Gruevski and Co.!
    I think even a fond memory of a childhood dog qualified for that one.

    For ethnic Albanians, I reckon even video footage of one might qualify.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Stevce
      Member
      • Jan 2016
      • 200

      The Macedonian

      Hi guys, just saw this. If it was put up without the directors notice could someone let him know? If it is legit watch it amazing documentary.
      Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        The dilemma is getting the message out versus commercial interests. Well worth watching.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Stevce
          Member
          • Jan 2016
          • 200

          I love in the video, how there are whole towns where everyone speaks Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Karposh
            Member
            • Aug 2015
            • 863

            I just watched this for the first time and I have to be honest, 27:00 - 27:17 is hard to watch without shedding a tear or two. The way the elderly Polish lady recounts the children's cries for their mothers is absolutely gut wrenching to watch. The sense of helplessness she felt at the time, the sorrow and empathy is etched all over her face and voice for all to see.

            Contrast this intrinsically human emotion called empathy with the ruthlessness and cold-heartedness of the Greek authorities to rid themselves of yet more Macedonians, regardless of their age. The seemingly altruistic Greek motives of their so-called "Paidomazoma" (i.e. Saving the Children) to exile the Macedonian children from Aegean Macedonia fell flat on their arse the very day the civil war ended back in 1949 and the Greeks refused to keep their promise of returning the children back to their grieving mother's longing arms.

            There must have been some sleepless nights for those devils who perpetrated this tragedy on those innocent little angels and I suspect it was those nightmares that made the Greek authorities finally come out in 1982 and, begrudgingly, announce that they will keep their promise of bringing the "children" back home to their mothers, more than thirty years after the event. And yet, they couldn't even bring themselves to do this right. They qualified it with "Greeks by Birth" need only apply. The Macedonians can stay where they are - they're not welcome. As the documentary reveals, some took advantage of the situation by "renouncing" their roots and taking on Greek roots and allegiances. It's quite evident to see, however, and I can't help but have a chuckle at how strong those Greek allegiances really are. They're almost as strong as the Bulgarian allegiances many Macedonians made recently, when they received their Bulgarian passports. The comparison is inappropriate, I know, and the situations are completely different but I'm just making the point of how the Greeks and Bulgarians will try anything to turn us into Greeks and/or Bulgarians in their dreams of wiping the Macedonians out completely.

            All I can say, after watching this documentary, is God bless Poland and the Polish people for the care, kindness and love they showed those poor kids, even though they were going through difficult times themselves with famine and the aftermath of WWII.

            Comment

            • macorules94
              Junior Member
              • Apr 2009
              • 28

              Originally posted by Stevce View Post
              I love in the video, how there are whole towns where everyone speaks Macedonian.
              Yep, I recently (july 2016) went into Lerin and a few surrounding villages to see where my grandparents are from (Neokazi and Pesosnica (Neochoraki and Ammochori) ) anywho, any person we spoke Macedonian to replied in Macedonian also, even in the Lerin city center.

              My grandpa's house in Neokazi was burnt down in the 40s when they were kicked out and moved to Bitola, but the neighbour saved the ikona (slightly burnt) and when we visited the village and said which family we are from to some randoms outside a coffee shop the guy remembered and brought us to his lovely wife who got so excited and invited us into her home to show us what her grandma saved from my grandpas house ruins.

              Anywho, just standing there, surrounded with the greenest grass I've ever seen, I could really picture all the stories my grandpa would tell me about his village life growing up, with the ofci etc and I couldn't stop crying.

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                The first visit was quite emotional for me also. Such a history of oppression of Macedonians in Greece.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Amphipolis
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 1328

                  Originally posted by Karposh View Post
                  I just watched this for the first time and I have to be honest, 27:00 - 27:17 is hard to watch without shedding a tear or two. The way the elderly Polish lady recounts the children's cries for their mothers is absolutely gut wrenching to watch. The sense of helplessness she felt at the time, the sorrow and empathy is etched all over her face and voice for all to see.
                  The option of separating with your children and sending them to a safe place was quite common during the war. English families would send their children to Australia, no matter how tragic this separation seems.

                  Originally posted by Karposh View Post
                  Contrast this intrinsically human emotion called empathy with the ruthlessness and cold-heartedness of the Greek authorities to rid themselves of yet more Macedonians, regardless of their age. The seemingly altruistic Greek motives of their so-called "Paidomazoma" (i.e. Saving the Children) to exile the Macedonian children from Aegean Macedonia fell flat on their arse the very day the civil war ended back in 1949 and the Greeks refused to keep their promise of returning the children back to their grieving mother's longing arms.
                  Not sure where to start. I hope you understand this controversial paedomazoma was committed by the Communists, not by Greece. The term should be avoided because it is a right-wing propaganda term. It literally means “gathering the children” (which is neutral) but it was actually a vernacular term for the Turkish abduction of the children for the Janissaries Army. Thus the Greek State adopted this term to imply the Greek children were kidnapped by the evil Communists.

                  An international research right after the Civil War proved there were no such cases. That means that all parents had reunited with their children, and there was no parent (e.g. in Greece) whose child was kept behind the Torn Curtain and was not given back to him. The hero of the movie reunited with his father in Poland, I think there’s no reference to the mother which probably means she was killed during the war.

                  The motives of the Communists were mixed. The good or normal part, something practical had to be done for the children, they could not be with the rebels on the mountains in ages lower than 12. The bad part: The real abductees were the parents who did not exactly volunteer to the Communist Party; they were not given a choice, they would be executed. With their children held behind, they were even further bound to the Party. The worst part: Some of the older kids (as young as 12 I believe) were trained in camps at Yugoslavia and were sent back to the War, many of them were killed.

                  As I already said all children reunited with their parents and/or started coming back in the 50s, 60s and 70s. What changed in 1982 is that the parents were pardoned and could come back; there was never an issue with the children.

                  Originally posted by Karposh View Post
                  There must have been some sleepless nights for those devils who perpetrated this tragedy on those innocent little angels and I suspect it was those nightmares that made the Greek authorities finally come out in 1982 and, begrudgingly, announce that they will keep their promise of bringing the "children" back home to their mothers, more than thirty years after the event. And yet, they couldn't even bring themselves to do this right. They qualified it with "Greeks by Birth" need only apply. The Macedonians can stay where they are - they're not welcome. As the documentary reveals, some took advantage of the situation by "renouncing" their roots and taking on Greek roots and allegiances. It's quite evident to see, however, and I can't help but have a chuckle at how strong those Greek allegiances really are. They're almost as strong as the Bulgarian allegiances many Macedonians made recently, when they received their Bulgarian passports. The comparison is inappropriate, I know, and the situations are completely different but I'm just making the point of how the Greeks and Bulgarians will try anything to turn us into Greeks and/or Bulgarians in their dreams of wiping the Macedonians out completely.
                  The term is Greek by Genus and it doesn’t mean something specific. Probably you should not totally denounce Greece; honestly I don’t know details on the typical process that was followed (if there’s an interview or you have to sign a document or what that document would say). Regarding allegiances, the way I see it someone who lives in Greece will unavoidably become essentially Greek after some years or decades or his next generations will.

                  As I wrote in previous posts, the story of the old man (Clanchov/ Alexiou/ Aleksovsky) seems inexplicable given that he can return and live in Greece (as Polish) without changing his name. That makes his story less melodramatic and his tears not believable. For some reason, he doesn’t want to come back (for good or for a visit) since nothing is stopping him as far as I see.

                  Last edited by Amphipolis; 01-20-2017, 03:23 AM.

                  Comment

                  • sydney
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 390

                    You really are a dumb fuck.

                    Comment

                    • Stevce
                      Member
                      • Jan 2016
                      • 200

                      Amphipolis keep living under a rock.
                      I have a few Greek friends who went back to Lerin and came back as Macedonians.
                      When they heard the stories of what happened to their grandparents they cracked the shits and have changed their surnames.
                      Even to this day if you do not consider yourself Greek you do not inherit anything it all goes to the relatives who claim Greek.

                      Comment

                      • Amphipolis
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1328

                        Originally posted by Stevce View Post
                        Amphipolis keep living under a rock.
                        I have a few Greek friends who went back to Lerin and came back as Macedonians.
                        When they heard the stories of what happened to their grandparents they cracked the shits and have changed their surnames.
                        Even to this day if you do not consider yourself Greek you do not inherit anything it all goes to the relatives who claim Greek.
                        I don’t think there’s a problem with inheriting an ancestor’s property. There is one, when that property was confiscated or changed hands, so it didn’t really belong to your ancestor anymore.

                        There are relevant threads but you should also have to be clearer on what sort of case we are talking about.

                        Comment

                        • Karposh
                          Member
                          • Aug 2015
                          • 863



                          I wanted to quote a few things from this entry in Wikipedia but I feel the whole article is a worthwhile read. Which is surprising, seeing how it's a Wikipedia article and dealing with Macedonian matters. Amphipolis, pay particular attention to the "Greeks by Genus" part in the Loss of Citizenship section. The Denial of re-entry to Greece section might be of interest to you as well.

                          Comment

                          • Amphipolis
                            Banned
                            • Aug 2014
                            • 1328

                            Being Greek by Genus is simply something YOU declare, not something the State decides for you, but I don’t know the exact process. It certainly includes taking your Greek name.

                            Denial of entry or re-entry applies ONLY on border check-points (i.e. you can still enter if you come on a plane or from another direction) and refers to the following cases:

                            -Black-listed people. It seems these lists are frequently updated and the reasons are unclear.

                            -People with passports that refer to Greek Birth-places with a different name/country (e.g. when instead of writing Florina, Greece it says Lerin, Macedonia). It has been discussed in a thread about Julie’s mother. This case applied to Yugoslavian passports and birth certificates and it passed to later documents (e.g. Australian passports) simply because they were based on Yugoslavian documents.

                            Of course none of these apply to the old man of our story who is a citizen of European Union. He can visit, work, and settle in Greece without claiming a Greek citizenship since he doesn’t want one. He can also reclaim his ancestral property if it hasn’t been confiscated meanwhile. Normally that would be very likely, but in his case, as I saw his property seems totally useless, abandoned and destroyed.


                            ===
                            Last edited by Amphipolis; 01-20-2017, 12:08 PM.

                            Comment

                            • AMHRC
                              De-registered
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 919

                              MHR Review #26

                              Macedonian Human Rights Review #26

                              Oops, looks like the page is lost. Start your website on the cheap.


                              Inside:

                              Elections in Macedonia - Dr. Chris Popov

                              Bi-partisanship in Macedonia - George Vlahov

                              A Call for Responsible Citizenship - George Vlahov

                              Freedom of Speech - Stefani Taskova

                              Discussion with Dr. Nathalie Tocci - Sasha Uzunov

                              On Petre Nakovski - Dr. Michael Seraphinoff

                              Macedonians & Greeks in Ottoman Macedonia - Dr. Dimitar Ljorovski-Vamvakovski

                              Interview with Kate Nitsou - Bill Nicholov

                              Muzikorama Australian Tour

                              Comment

                              • AMHRC
                                De-registered
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 919

                                MHR Review #27

                                Macedonian Human Rights Review #27



                                Inside this issue:

                                *Politics in Macedonia - George Vlahov
                                *Letter to Dimitrov - AMHRC
                                *Macedonia-Bulgaria Relations - OMO PIRIN
                                *On Macedonians in Albania - FUEN
                                *Australian Census Results - David Vitkov
                                *Macedonian Women - Stefani Taskova
                                *Spirit of Macedonian Literature - Dr. Michael Seraphinoff
                                *MRO in Greece 1902 - Dr. Dimitar Ljorovski Vamvakovski
                                *The Story of IMRO - Victor Sinadinoski
                                *Photos of the Annual AMHRC Dinner

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X