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The first four Illyrians in the table are in fact Romans.
By the way Amphipolis can you correct all the errors you see in the first post.
By the way Amphipolis can you correct all the errors you see in the first post.
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According to tradition, Nicephorus was descended from one of the last Ghassanid Kings, Gafna or Djabalah or Cabella depending on what source is used, who along with his family had fled to Roman-controlled Cappadocia during the early days of the Moslem conquest of the Levant.[[2]] However, this tradition is only to be found in non-Byzantine sources since Theophanes only records that the Emperor was a close neighbor of the Athinganoi in Phrygia and Lycaonia; the chronographer's comments describe Cappadocia, although they do not answer the question of his ancestry.[[3]] Perhaps one can safely say Nicephorus' ancestors were Arab Christians, not necessarily royalty, who left Mesopotamia before the Arab conquest and settled in Cappadocia. From his origins in Cappadocia Nicephorus had risen in the early days of Irene's regency through the ranks to become the strategos of the Armeniac Theme.[[4]] In this position he had supported Irene when Constantine VI moved to become sole ruler of the Empire in A. D. 790, though his troops mutinied and removed him from command.[[5]] Sometime between A. D. 790 and 797 Nicephorus became the Chief Logothete or Finance Minister for Irene. In this capacity Nicephorus had overseen the fiscal administration of the Empire, an experience which would serve him well during his reign as Emperor.[[6]] At the time of his coup d'้tat Nicephorus was about fifty and widowed, as his wife, who was possibly named Procopria, is not named in the listing of Imperial tombs. Nicephorus had two living children, a daughter Procopria, and a son Stauracius. Procopria was married to the future emperor Michael Rhangabe and already had children of her own when Nicephorus became Emperor. His son Stauracius was evidently only about ten when Nicephorus became Emperor and, due to his youth, would not play a large role in the government, despite having been crowned co-Emperor, until the very end of Nicephorus' reign.[[7]]
[[3]]. Bury has accepted the non-Byzantine accounts ( Bury 8), Treadgold accepted them provisionally depending on whether or not they were true ( Treadgold [1988] 127), whereas Niavis simply laid them out against Theophanes’ account for the reader to see (Niavis 40-41).
[[4]]. Treadgold (1988) 79.
[[5]]. Michael the Syrian 9 ; Theophanes A. M. 6283 (Turtledove accidently reverses who was proclaimed the new strategeos of the Armeniac Theme, it should be Alexios not Nikephoros); Treadgold (1988) 96
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Irene was born in Athens about the year 752. Her family background is not known. It is believed that she was born of a Greek noble family. She apparently was a beautiful but orphaned girl who at the age of seventeen was brought to Constantinople by the Emperor Constantine V to be married to his son Leo in November 769. She gave birth to a son, Constantine, on January 14, 771. Leo, however, was a steadfast iconoclast who, according to tradition, found that Irene possessed icons and thereafter would no longer share their marriage bed.
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Her family background was VERY WELL KNOWN, that's why she could marry the emperor.
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I will update the list with more accurate information in a new thread.Comment
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Constantinian dynasty (306-363)
Constantine I (306-337) - ILLYRIAN, born in Nish, Serbia.
Constantine II (337-361) - ILLYRIAN, son of Constantine I, born in Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia.
Julian (361-363) - ILLYRIAN, son of Constantine I's Brother.
Non-dynastic (363-364)
Jovian (363-364) - ILLYRIAN, born in Belgrade, Serbia.
Valentinian-Theodosian dynasty (364-377)
Valentinian I (364-375) - ILLYRIAN, Born in Vinkovci, Croatia.
Valens (375-378) - ILLYRIAN, Brother of Valentinian I, born in Vinkovci, Croatia.
Gratian (378-379) - ILLYRIAN, born in Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia.
Theodosius I (379-395) - SPANISH, born in Cauca, Spain.
Arcadius (395-408) - SPANISH, son of Theodosius I.
Theodosius II (408-450) - SPANISH, son of Arcadius.
Pulcheria (450-453) - SPANISH, daughter of Arcadius.
Marcian (450-457) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Leonid dynasty (457-518)
Leo I (457-474) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Leo II (474-474) - THRACIAN, Son of Zeno and grandson of Leo I.
Zeno (474-475) - KURDISH, born in Isauria, Turkey.
Basiliscus (475-476) - ILLYRIAN, Born in the northern Balkans, exact village or town unknown.
Zeno (476-491) - KURDISH, restored as emperor.
Anastasius I (491-518) - ILLYRIAN, born in Durres, Albania.
Justinian dynasty (518-602)
Justin I (518-527) - ILLYRIANO-THRACIAN, born in Nish, Serbia. (his real name was Istok).
Justinian I (527-565) - ILLYRIAN, born in Gradiste.
Justin II (565-578) - ILLYRIAN, nephew of Justinian I.
Tiberius II Constantine (578-582) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Maurice (582-602) - ARMENIAN, born in Arabissus, Turkey.
Non-dynastic (602-610)
Phocas (602-610) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Heraclian dynasty (610-711)
Heraclius (610–641) - ARMENIAN, born in Cappodocia, Turkey.
Constantine III (641-641) - ARMENIAN, son of Heraclius, born in Lazica, Republic of Georgia.
Heraklonas (641-641) - ARMENIAN, son of Heraclius, born in Lazica, Republic of Georgia.
Constans II (641–668) - ARMENIAN, son of Constatine III.
Mezezius (668–669) - ARMENIAN, born in Malazgirt, Turkey.
Constantine IV (668–685) - ARMENIAN, son of Constans II.
Justinian II (685–695) - ARMENIAN, son of Constatine IV.
Leontios (695–698) - KURDISH, born in Isauria, Turkey.
Tiberios III (698–705) - GERMAN, born in Germany, exact village or town unknown.
Justinian II (705–711) - ARMENIAN, restored.
Non-dynastic (711-717)
Philippikos Bardanes (711–713) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.
Anastasios II (713–715) - UNKNOWN, possibly Armenian.
Theodosios III (715–717) - GERMAN, son of Tiberios III.
Isaurian dynasty (717-802)
Leo III (717–741) - KURDISH, born in Maras, Turkey.
Constantine V Kopronymos (741-741) - KURDISH, son of Leo III.
Artabasdus (741–743) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.
Constantine V Kopronymos (743–775) - KURDISH, restored as emperor.
Leo IV (775–780) - KURDISH/KHAZAR son of Constantine V and a Khazar mother.
Constantine VI (780–797) - KURDISH/KHAZAR, son of Leo IV.
Irene (797–802) - UNKNOWN, born in Athens and ironically deposed and exiled to Lesbos.
Nikephoros dynasty (802-813)
Nikephoros I (802–811) - ARAB, born in Selef, Turkey.
Staurakios (811-811) - ARAB, son of Nikephoros I.
Michael I Rangabe (811–813) - UNKNOWN.
Non-dynastic (813-820)
Leo V (813–820) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.
Phrygian dynasty (820-867)
Michael II (820-829) - ARMENIAN, Born in Amorium, Turkey.
Theophilus (829-842) - ARMENIAN, son of Michael II and an Armenian mother.
Theodora (842-855) - ARMENIAN, born in Paphlagonia, Turkey.
Michael III (855-867) - ARMENIAN, son of Theophilus.
Macedonian dynasty (867-1056)
Basil I (867-886) - ARMENIAN, born in Macedonia, exact village or town unknown.
Leo VI (886-912) - ARMENIAN, son of Michael III.
Alexander (912-913) - ARMENIAN, son of Basil I.
Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos (908-959) - ARMENIAN, son of Leo VI
Romanos I Lekapenos (920-944) - ARMENIAN, born in Lakape, Republic of Armenia.
Romanos II Porphyrogennetos (959-963) - ARMENIAN, son of Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos.
Nikephoros II Phokas (963-969) - ARMENIAN, born in Cappodocia, Turkey.
John I Tzimiskes (969-976) - ARMENIAN, born in Cappodocia, Turkey.
Basil II (976-1025) - ARMENIAN, exact village or town unknown.
Constantine VIII (1025-1028) - ARMENIAN, son of Romanos II Porphyrogennetos.
Zoe (1028-1050) - ARMENIAN, daugter of Constantine VIII.
Romanos III Argyros (1028-1034) - ARMENIAN, great grandson of Romanos I.
Michael IV (1034-1041) - PAPHLAGONIAN, born in Paphlagonia, Turkey.
Michael V (1041-1042) - PAPHLAGONIAN, nephew of Michael IV.
Theodora (1042-1042) - ARMENIAN, daughter of Constantine VIII.
Constantine IX (1042-1055) - UNKNOWN, possibly Armenian.
Theodora (1055-1056) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
Non-dynastic (1056-1057)
Michael VI the General (1056–1057) - UNKNOWN.
Komnenid dynasty (1057-1059)
Isaac I Komnenos (1057–1059) - ARMENIAN, family originates from Paphlagonia, Turkey.
Doukid dynasty (1059-1081)
Constantine X (1059-1067) - PAPHLAGONIAN, born exact village or town unknown.
Michael VII (1067-1090) - PAPHLAGONIAN, son of Constantine X.
Romanos IV (1067-1071) - ARMENIAN, family originates from Cappodocia, Turkey.
Nikephoros III (1078-1081) - ITALIAN, descended from the Fabii, a leading patrician family from Rome.
Komnenid dynasty (1081-1185)
Alexios I Komnenos (1081-1118) - ARMENIAN, nephew of Isaac I Komnenos, family originates from Paphlagonia, Turkey.
John II Komnenos (1118-1143) - ARMENIAN, son of Alexios I Komnenos.
Manuel I Komnenos (1143-1180) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos I Komnenos.
Alexios II Komnenos (1180-1183) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel I Komnenos.
Andronikos I Michael VIII Palaiologos 1183-1185) - ARMENIAN, grandson of Alexios I.
Angelid dynasty (1185-1204)
Isaac II Angelos (1185-1195) - ARMENIAN, grandson of Alexios I Komnenos.
Alexios III Angelos (1195-1203) - ARMENIAN, grandson of Alexios I Komnenos.
Isaac II Angelos (1203-1205) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
Alexios IV Angelos (1203-1204) - ARMENIAN, son of Isaac II Angelos.
Nikolaos Kanabos (1204-1205) - UNKNOWN.
Alexios V Doukas (1204-1205) - PAPHLAGONIAN, descended from the Ducas family who originate from Paphlagonia, Turkey.
Latin dynasty - Empire of Constantinople (1204-1237)
Baldwin I (1204–06) - FRENCH, born in Valenciennes, France.
Henry (1206–1217) - FRENCH, born in Valenciennes, France.
Peter (1217-1217) - FRENCH, born in Auxerre, France.
Yolande (1217–1219) - FRENCH, sister of Balwin I.
Robert (1221–1228) - FRENCH, born in Flanders, France.
Baldwin II Porphyrogennetos (1228–1261) - FRENCH, son of Yolande.
John (1231–1237) - FRENCH, born in Brienne, France.
Laskarid dynasty - Empire of Nicaea (1204-1261)
Constantine Laskaris (1204-1204) - UNKNOWN.
Theodore I Laskaris (1174–1222) - UNKNOWN.
John III Doukas Vatatzes (1222–1254) - ARMENIAN, cousin of Isaac II Angelos.
Theodore II Doukas Laskaris (1254–1258) - UNKNOWN.
John IV Doukas Laskaris (1258–1261) - UNKNOWN.
Palaiologan Dynasty (1259-1453)
Michael VIII Palaiologos (1259–1282) - ARMENIAN, descended from both the Armenian Ducas and Komnenos families.
Andronikos II Palaiologos the Elder (1282–1328) - ARMENIAN, son of Michael VIII Palaiologos.
Andronikos III Palaiologos the Younger (1328–1341) - ARMENIAN , son of and Michael IX Palaiologos and princess Rita of Armenia.
John V Palaiologos (1341–1347) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos III Palaiologos the Younger.
John VI Kantakouzenos (1347–1354) - UNKNOWN, born in Morea.
John V Palaiologos (1354–1376) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
Andronikos IV Palaiologos (1376–1379) - ARMENIAN, son of John V Palaiologos.
John VII Palaiologos (1376-1379) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos IV Palaiologos.
John V Palaiologos (1379–1390) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
John VII Palaiologos (1390-1390) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos IV Palaiologos.
John V Palaiologos (1390–1391) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos III Palaiologos.
Manuel II Palaiologos (1391–1425) - ARMENIAN, son of John V Palaiologos.
John VII Palaiologos (1399–1402) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
John VIII Palaiologos (1425–1448) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel II Palaiologos.
Constantine XI Palaiologos Dragases (1449–1453) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel II Palaiologos.Last edited by tchaiku; 07-05-2017, 11:58 AM.Comment
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Nice list. Although just to point out some ambiguity, Basil I was not born in geographic Macedonia but rather the theme of Macedonia which was situated within Thrace.Comment
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Two questions/points:
1. Why were there so many Armenians in the Balkans at that time and where are they all now?
2. Why is called the Macedonian dynasty when they were all Armenians not even born in Macedonia. I read that this dynasty was likely of mixed Macedono-Armenian heritage.I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
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Anatolia was a part of Byzantine Empire. I did not check the whole list some part were copy-pasted. However from what I saw Armenians were the easiest to be distinguished.
For Liberator of Makedonija
I think it has to do with aristocracy class. The dominant Slavic element is well documented in Macedonia. In Macedonia there has been a considerable Anatolian element too during history.
For example Albanians formed the bulk of population in Peloponesse not to mention other ethnicities and yet it was ruled by Byzantines.Last edited by tchaiku; 07-06-2017, 08:19 AM.Comment
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Doesn't Wikipedia work for you?
Here's how much of an Armenian Michael II (Psellos) was:
and here's how much of an Armenian Heraclius was (this is about his father, Heraclius the Elder)
and how much of an "Illyrian" Constantine the Great was (This is also about his father Constantius Chlorus)
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Flavius Valerius Constantinus, as he was originally named, was born in the city of Naissus, (today Niš, Serbia) part of the Dardania province of Moesia on 27 February,[30] probably c. 272 AD.[31] His father was Flavius Constantius, an Illyrian,[32]
About Heraclius it is basically saying he is an Armenian. No Byzantine Emperor would rule without knowing to speak Greek.Last edited by tchaiku; 07-06-2017, 02:18 AM.Comment
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Originally posted by Amphipolis View PostDoesn't Wikipedia work for you?
Here's how much of an Armenian Michael II (Psellos) was:
and here's how much of an Armenian Heraclius was (this is about his father, Heraclius the Elder)
and how much of an "Illyrian" Constantine the Great was (This is also about his father Constantius Chlorus)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantius_Chlorus
Wikipedia will never fly as a good source in these forumsI know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
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Why am I wasting my time on this? I should get a life.Last edited by tchaiku; 07-07-2017, 08:13 AM.Comment
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