Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-10-2010, 03:39 PM   #1
TrueMacedonian
Senior Member
 
TrueMacedonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,757
TrueMacedonian is on a distinguished road
Default The Bogomils




Bogomilism was indirectly influenced by Manichaeism (info on Manichaeism can be found here - http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~sbriggs/Brit...anichaeism.htm) and directly influenced by Paulicianism (http://www.carthage.lib.il.us/commun...aulicians.html) and other sects such as the Massalians (or Messalians) and the Marcionians. The following pages are from Dmitry Obolensky's book 'The Bogomils' which demonstrate cultural intersecting of influence from the ancient Christian Macedonians to the Paulicians to the other sects forwarded to the Bogomils.





Obolensky thoroughly demonstrates that Bogomilism was centered in and originated from Macedonia (but not exclusive to) and even called Macedonia the "cradle of Bogomilism" as well as state the following;




More to come.
__________________
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
TrueMacedonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 07:25 AM   #2
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,490
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Interesting, this is a topic I have always wanted to explore a little further, good that you brought it up TM, keep the information coming.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:15 PM   #3
TrueMacedonian
Senior Member
 
TrueMacedonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,757
TrueMacedonian is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks SoM. Here's some more info on Bogomilism and Tsar Samuel. Both pages from Dmitry Obolensky's 'The Bogomils'.


__________________
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
TrueMacedonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 12:38 AM   #4
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,490
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

It would appear that Samuel used various disgruntled elements in his push to secure the survival of the empire, and from these elements Bogomilism was derived in 10th century Macedonia. Perhaps the Bogomils were assured a level of security that could not be provided elsewhere in the Balkans at the time, which demonstrates a level of tolerance within Samuel's domains.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 08:56 AM   #5
Onur
Senior Member
 
Onur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Izmir, Turkiye
Posts: 2,389
Onur is on a distinguished road
Default

There was a Turkish citizen Bosniak scholar on a tv program in Turkey and he was talking about how Bosnians converted as muslims at Turkish reign.

He said, most of Bosnians(if not all) was living their christianity according to Bogomil philosophy after 12-13th century. At those times, especially Serbian, Byzantine, Hungarian religious authorities was considering them as a wicked sect and servants of Satan. He said, these Bosnian, Macedonian and Bulgar Bogomilians have been persecuted and hunted by them. He also mentioned that the catholic crusaders also killed them if they refuse to convert to catholicism and even they burned the nuns and priests alive like they did in witch hunting days at western Europe.

All these persecutions continues `till Turkish reign because Ottoman government never tolerated any internal tension inside their territory, therefor the Bogomil hunting stops. He said that Bosnians accepted Islam mostly because of the pressure upon them while they were christians of Bogomil philosophy and most of current non-Turkish muslims in Macedonia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Bulgaria and other Balkan states was formerly Bogomils and they accepted Islam as some kind of reaction to other christians and as a gratitude to the Turks who stopped Bogomils hunt either purposely or indirectly. For example, he said that all the Bosniaks became muslim in a very short time period to end their own frustration because their own Bogomil religious leaders became muslim first and they called everyone to be muslim as well.

Last edited by Onur; 09-05-2010 at 05:30 PM.
Onur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 02:58 PM   #6
Dimko-piperkata
Senior Member
 
Dimko-piperkata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Occupied Macedonia 1913
Posts: 1,863
Dimko-piperkata is on a distinguished road
Default

popot BOGOMIL od ORESHE 1/2 - YouTube

popot BOGOMIL od ORESHE 2/2 - YouTube
Dimko-piperkata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2011, 01:58 AM   #7
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,490
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomilism
Quote:
The members are referred to as Babuni in several documents. Toponyms which include the river Babuna, the mountain Babuna, the Bogomila Waterfall and village Bogomila, all in the region of Azot today in central Republic of Macedonia, suggests that the movement was very active in the region.[6][7]

Some historians claim that tzar Samuil and in particular his son Gavril Radomir supported the movement. The core of Samuil's empire corresponds to the region where the Bogomils were most active. Most probably, as Samuil revolted against the Byzantine Empire, he relied on the popular support of the movement. There are no sources of Bogomil persecution during his reign (976 - 1014).[6]

The Bogomils spread westwards and settled first in Serbia; but at the end of the 12th century Stefan Nemanja, Great Župan of Serbia, expelled them from the country. Large numbers took refuge in Bosnia, where they were known under the name of Patarenes or Patareni. There, they were also brought into connection with the indigenous Bosnian Church, which was also considered heretical by the Pope and Byzantines, but was not actually Bogomil in nature.


6.^ a b Obolensky, Dimitry (1948). The Bogomils: A study in Balkan Neo-Manicheism. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-58262-8.
7.^ Loos, Milan (1974). Dualist heresy in the Middle Ages. Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences.
http://www.languedocmysteries.info/dualism.htm
Quote:
Manichaeism

In the third century AD, before Christianity became the official religion of the Roman empire, a Persian named Many (Latin Manes, Manicheus), gathered Christian Gnostic and Buddhist elements and combined them with the Zoroastrian teaching.

He gave a simple explanation for where evil in the world comes from, preaching new dualistic religion. For this he was condemned by the Persian magi (those wise men - actually Zoroastrian priests - mentioned in the Bible). Mani was executed for his heresy in 276 AD.

By the second half of the seventh century a Gnostic sect named Pavlikianis was active in Armenia incorporating elements of Mani's teachings. This sect was seen as a threat to the state authorities. Tzars Constantine V Kopronim (741-775) and Ivan Cimiskes (969-976) forceably removed them to Thrace and Macedonia.

Bogomils

The Bogomils or Bogumils appeared in Bulgaria in the middle of the 10th century in the time of Bulgarian Tzar Peter (927-969). It seems evident, though there is no formal proof, that the Dualist beliefs of the Bogomils was a continuation of the Pavlikiani teaching from nearby Macedonia.

The first known written information about this heresy appears in the epistle of Patriarch Teofilact to Tsar Peter. He explains to the Tsar that this heresy is the "Pavlikian heresy mixed with Manicheanism".

More information is to be found in the apologetic tractate of the presbyter Cosma, "Speech on Heresy" created around 972. Cosma blames a priest called Bogomil for spreading this new teaching across Bulgaria - a teaching that opposes the teaching of the orthodox Christian church - that there is only one god.

Bogomil taught that there are two gods - one the god of good, and the other the god of evil. The god of evil created whole material world, including human beings. By his will exist all the visible things: the earth itself, animals, churches, crosses. Some of the Bogomils thought that the evil god, Satan, was God's younger son, next to Christ, the older brother. Others thought that he was not God's son but an angel that seceded from the ranks.

Cosma, further on in his tractate, says that the Bogomils were attacking the Church establishment, especially the clergy and bishops, and that they rejected Old Testament along with the books of the church fathers, and the [then new] cult of the Virgin Mary's along with the cults of other saints, all the other Church literature and all the prayers except the Lord's Prayer "Our father…".

Further, they did not respect icons, nor the cross, and they did not accept church buildings as the house of God. They gathered in their houses to pray and confess to each other.

They had critical attitude towards the governments, the state establishment, and the rules of society. They were alleged to incite their followers to rebel against the authorities, deterring slaves from working for their masters. They were attacking the established Church hierarchy and the nobility, teaching that those who worked for the tsar were repulsive to God.

They preached poverty and were critical of the rich. Cosma describes the heretics as quiet people, pale from fasting, dressed in modest clothes. But according to Cosma, this is only a ploy, and in fact they are rapacious, seeking out people with a simple spirit, and talking to them about the salvation of their souls.

The popularity of the dualistic heresy may be an expression of rebellion towards the hierarchy of the Orthodox Christian Church - a Church that like it's offshoot, the Roman Catholic Church, uses the idea of a god to keep its followers in obedience. It may also be an expression of rebellion against government institutions that lean on the Christian Church, using it to bolster and endorse their power. The appearance of the Bogomils in Macedonia and Bulgaria occurs at a time when local people felt oppressed by Byzantium, after the death of the Tsar Simeon, in the time of Tsar Peter. Ideologically, this Gnostic teaching was opposed to the Byzantine conquerors, against the pliable local nobility and against the hierarchy of the Orthodox Christian Church. (According to Cosma's notes the Orthodox Christian Church was itself utterly corrupt).
Quote:
- babunes (characteristic name in Serbia, coming from the name of the mountain Babuna in Macedonia)
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...edonia&f=false

__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2011, 02:44 AM   #8
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,490
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Not sure how accurate all of this is, but just wanted to post it here to serve as a stepping stone for further research.
Quote:
The little that is known about Cosmas can be extracted from the few words that he writes about himself in Sermon Against the Heretics. As was customary to medieval priests and writers, Cosmas refers to himself as "unworthy". However, he was certainly of no low rank, as in his treatise he widely criticised the high clergy of the Bulgarian Patriarchate.[1] Bulgarian historian Plamen Pavlov theorises Cosmas must have been a high-ranking member of the ecclesiastical hierarchy and would have written his treatise under direct orders from the Bulgarian emperor. There is no data as to where in Bulgaria Cosmas was based: suppositions range from the capital Preslav[2] and eastern Bulgaria in general, to Ohrid and the region of Macedonia, and even Veliko Tarnovo.[3] Though Cosmas is not known to have been canonised, he is commonly referred to as "blessed" or a "saint" in the copies of his treatise.[4]

The dating of Cosmas' activity and thus the writing of Sermon Against the Heretics is an extremely problematic issue. The general consensus among scholars is that Cosmas lived in the middle or the second half of the 10th century.[2][3][5] However, individual scholarly opinions associate Cosmas' life with the first half of the 11th century and even the early 13th century.[3] While Cosmas never mentions the date of writing of his treatise, he does leave some chronological details. Cosmas calls the Bogomil heresy "newly-appeared"[3] and refers to the apparently popular "John, the new presbyter and exarch", whom most scholars identify with early-10th-century Bulgarian writer John Exarch. Cosmas insists that the heresy spread during the reign of Tsar Peter I (r. 927–969), yet according to historian Dimitri Obolensky he also claims Peter's rule was already over by the time of writing.[5]
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2011, 05:47 PM   #9
Niko777
Senior Member
 
Niko777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,488
Niko777 is on a distinguished road
Default

There was an article on the Bogomils in Nova Zora recently. In the article it mentions that Bogomil cemeteries are found in villages around Lerin, Pella, and Solun.

>> http://novazora.gr/arhivi/2330


Bogomil cemeteries in Aegean Macedonia:



Niko777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2011, 06:50 PM   #10
ramo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 117
ramo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud oframo has much to be proud of
Default

Here are 2 links with the same text (html and pdf) about the Bogomils written by Kosho Racin in 1939. The text is in Macedonian not English.

http://www.marxists.org/makedonski/r...bogomilite.htm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49032583/%...86%D0%B8%D0%BD


Here are some quotations from the text.

Quote:
И ете зошто богомилството е нешто најинтересно и најсветло во нашата народна историа. Да се гордеат нашите Македонци со тиа свои славни лугје! That's why bogomillism are the most interesting and brightest in our people's history. Our Macedonians should be proud with their glorious people
Quote:
И токмо сега идеме до онова, откај ке се види, зошто богомилството е едно чисто македонско јавление, никнало во онија особени условија, во кои живеале македонските славјански племиња. We will see why the bogomilism is pure macedonian appearance, risen in the environment in which the macedonian slavic tribes lived
Racin makes retrospective of the Macedonian history and history of the church in this same text.
ramo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bogomilism, bogomils, macedonia


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump