John Bitove

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    John Bitove

    Over the years, UMD (and Meto in particular) have developed a close relationship with the Bitove family, and especially John Bitove. At Meto's session in Canberra/Queanbeyan on 8 February 2010, he announced that John Bitove would be a special guest at the UMD Global Conference this year.

    But who are the Bitove's? A simple Google search is quite revealing and shows a long history of association with the MPO.

    I particularly found this document about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia" co-signed by James Bitove (brother of John) quite disturbing:

    http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf

    UMD's continued promotion of MPO-associated individuals is also quite disturbing.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
  • Bill77
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 4545

    #2
    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
    Over the years, UMD (and Meto in particular) have developed a close relationship with the Bitove family, and especially John Bitove. At Meto's session in Canberra/Queanbeyan on 8 February 2010, he announced that John Bitove would be a special guest at the UMD Global Conference this year.

    But who are the Bitove's? A simple Google search is quite revealing and shows a long history of association with the MPO.

    I particularly found this document about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia" co-signed by James Bitove (brother of John) quite disturbing:

    http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf

    UMD's continued promotion of MPO-associated individuals is also quite disturbing.
    This is realy disturbing.

    So is this close relationship with the Bitove family just another "Fuck up" as Buktop once quoted.

    Sory for sounding like a wingnut.
    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

    Comment

    • MP_MK
      Banned
      • Aug 2009
      • 332

      #3
      I don't speak on behalf of UMD but it would pay to note this article: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/457/1/

      The following comments were taken from someone I trust greatly and is independent of any org:

      Apparently, the issue was forced to a vote. If it is any relief, it is important to know that this "concern" originated in Canada and not in the USA. Shame on the Canadians who seek to manipulate USA census numbers and weaken our political strength. It doesn't even concern them; they should mind their own business. (Except for Bill, of course; he's one of the good guys.)

      Under the decade-long strong leadership of Chris Evanoff, the MPO strongly moderated its perspectives. What has happened (back-pedalling) has only occurred since then (about 18 months) due to internal organizational strife.

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        #4
        Originally posted by MP_MK View Post
        I don't speak on behalf of UMD but it would pay to note this article: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/457/1/

        The following comments were taken from someone I trust greatly and is independent of any org:

        Apparently, the issue was forced to a vote. If it is any relief, it is important to know that this "concern" originated in Canada and not in the USA. Shame on the Canadians who seek to manipulate USA census numbers and weaken our political strength. It doesn't even concern them; they should mind their own business. (Except for Bill, of course; he's one of the good guys.)

        Under the decade-long strong leadership of Chris Evanoff, the MPO strongly moderated its perspectives. What has happened (back-pedalling) has only occurred since then (about 18 months) due to internal organizational strife.

        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2811

        What was moderated? They either consider themselves Macedonians or they don't.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • MP_MK
          Banned
          • Aug 2009
          • 332

          #5
          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
          http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2811

          What was moderated? They either consider themselves Macedonians or they don't.

          I would take a guess and say- internal policies and moderating / qualifying new members?

          Don't think it would be reasonable to come to the conclusion that the moderation mentioned above, is in respect to considering themselves Maceodnian or not, based on the above quotes.
          Last edited by MP_MK; 02-28-2010, 07:55 PM.

          Comment

          • El Bre
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 713

            #6
            I'm no expert on John Bitove, but, in the early 90's he debated a Greek on local television, he did a pretty good job and I don't recall anything about Bulgaria being mentioned in his defense of Macedonia.

            Macedonians began arriving in Canada in the late 1800's (my great grandfather included, although he was never a member of the MPO) When the MPO was formed in the early 1900's, it was the only game in town for the pechalbari alone in a strange land. In the 1960's when the United Macedonians started up and the St Clement MOC opened, many people broke ranks with the MPO.
            Last edited by El Bre; 02-28-2010, 08:45 PM.

            Comment

            • indigen
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 1558

              #7
              Originally posted by MP_MK View Post
              The following comments were taken from someone I trust greatly and is independent of any org:
              Care to mention this "someone I trust greatly" person and why their view would be of any relevance?

              Apparently, the issue was forced to a vote. If it is any relief, it is important to know that this "concern" originated in Canada and not in the USA. Shame on the Canadians who seek to manipulate USA census numbers and weaken our political strength. It doesn't even concern them; they should mind their own business. (Except for Bill, of course; he's one of the good guys.)
              Haha....are you trying to say that "MPO" USA leadership do not consider themselves as ethnic Bulgarians (from Geographic Macedonia)? If you are, you would be sadly DELUDING yourself!

              Under the decade-long strong leadership of Chris Evanoff, the MPO strongly moderated its perspectives. What has happened (back-pedalling) has only occurred since then (about 18 months) due to internal organizational strife.
              MPO moderated nothing and they were more emboldened than ever before with the Bugaroman complete takeover of dpmne in Sept 1997 and subsequently taking Government (1998) and Presidential (1999 via Trajkovski, it is said he was a former MPO member) power in Macedonia.

              As for Evanoff, see what he had to say in 2008:


              "....The MPO was founded in 1922 based on the truth of our Bulgarian heritage and ethnicity and as well as, an understanding that we are all Macedonian, just as I can say I am an American or Canadian based on my national and geographic consciousness. The MPO was founded on the principle of a free, independent and united Macedonian state representing all ethnicities of people (i.e., Bulgarian, Vlah, Turk, Greek, Serb, Romani) The founding Fathers of the MPO were from the Kostur region of Aegean Macedonia and even before they set foot on American soil they considered themselves as Bulgarians, one of the early members was my Grandfather and his Father considered himself a Bulgarian as my Grandfather would tell the story, all before there was a Bulgarian State. Even after 500 years of Ottoman enslavement and atrocities, as well as, the Greek religious and educational pressures, they still spoke the old Slavonic or old Bulgarian language and lived the village life as Bulgarian Slavs not ethnic Macedonians. It is unfortunate that many of the recent scholars have taken such a Serbo-communist view that was started well before Tito and it is unfortunate again that Tito changed the language and then called it Macedonian. ......

              .....I am 42 years old and I am not elderly as you refer but I am old enough to know the truth and I am fortunate that I live in America where I can without fear, speak the truth. Maybe this makes me a relic in the eyes of the new Macedonian community, but they misunderstand their history......the MPO have maintained an untarnished heritage, pristine from Tito and early communist beliefs. My Great Grandmother and Great Grandfather were shot and killed during the Ilinden uprising - they were Bulgarians from Macedonia...."

              The issue of who these people are, whether Macedonians or Bulgarized Macedonians, seems to arise frequently, and there is never a definitive answer. From what I have read and seen, the MPO seem to have influence in the Americas, I have never even heard of them here in Australia but I have been informed that they were/are

              Comment

              • indigen
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 1558

                #8
                Originally posted by El Bre View Post
                I'm no expert on John Bitove, but, in the early 90's he debated a Greek on local television, he did a pretty good job and I don't recall anything about Bulgaria being mentioned in his defense of Macedonia.

                Macedonians began arriving in Canada in the late 1800's (my great grandfather included, although he was never a member of the MPO) When the MPO was formed in the early 1900's, it was the only game in town for the pechalbari alone in a strange land. In the 1960's when the United Macedonians started up and the St Clement MOC opened, many people broke ranks with the MPO.
                I don't buy that "MPO was the only game in town before 1960", no way!

                Comment

                • MP_MK
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 332

                  #9
                  Originally posted by indigen View Post
                  Care to mention this "someone I trust greatly" person and why their view would be of any relevance?


                  Haha....are you trying to say that "MPO" USA leadership do not consider themselves as ethnic Bulgarians (from Geographic Macedonia)? If you are, you would be sadly DELUDING yourself!



                  MPO moderated nothing and they were more emboldened than ever before with the Bugaroman complete takeover of dpmne in Sept 1997 and subsequently taking Government (1998) and Presidential (1999 via Trajkovski, it is said he was a former MPO member) power in Macedonia.

                  As for Evanoff, see what he had to say in 2008:


                  "....The MPO was founded in 1922 based on the truth of our Bulgarian heritage and ethnicity and as well as, an understanding that we are all Macedonian, just as I can say I am an American or Canadian based on my national and geographic consciousness. The MPO was founded on the principle of a free, independent and united Macedonian state representing all ethnicities of people (i.e., Bulgarian, Vlah, Turk, Greek, Serb, Romani) The founding Fathers of the MPO were from the Kostur region of Aegean Macedonia and even before they set foot on American soil they considered themselves as Bulgarians, one of the early members was my Grandfather and his Father considered himself a Bulgarian as my Grandfather would tell the story, all before there was a Bulgarian State. Even after 500 years of Ottoman enslavement and atrocities, as well as, the Greek religious and educational pressures, they still spoke the old Slavonic or old Bulgarian language and lived the village life as Bulgarian Slavs not ethnic Macedonians. It is unfortunate that many of the recent scholars have taken such a Serbo-communist view that was started well before Tito and it is unfortunate again that Tito changed the language and then called it Macedonian. ......

                  .....I am 42 years old and I am not elderly as you refer but I am old enough to know the truth and I am fortunate that I live in America where I can without fear, speak the truth. Maybe this makes me a relic in the eyes of the new Macedonian community, but they misunderstand their history......the MPO have maintained an untarnished heritage, pristine from Tito and early communist beliefs. My Great Grandmother and Great Grandfather were shot and killed during the Ilinden uprising - they were Bulgarians from Macedonia...."

                  http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=689&page=21

                  Not my place to say who this is as this was taken from a non public conversation. I will say that he was involved with the MK gov and RTG had a visit from him back in 2007. If RTG wants to confirm that he is a trustworthy individual, then he can do so, but naming names when using direct quotes without his permission, would be poor form here on a public forum.

                  Those quotes are not my quotes and hence not my opinions. SO no need to make comment to me regarding them.

                  Comment

                  • Rogi
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2343

                    #10
                    Ok, we all know it is Tashkovich. Let's just put it out there.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      #11
                      Originally posted by indigen View Post
                      I don't buy that "MPO was the only game in town before 1960", no way!
                      I would not even comment on what goes on in Canada. But surely in the late 1800's many Macedonians were coming over as members of the Exarchate??
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • El Bre
                        Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 713

                        #12
                        Indigen, before 1960 there existed small village organizations, MPO was the only real "big" organization until the United Macedonians started up. If you research the MPO, you will find that the majority of it's member came from a certain area of Aegean Macedonia. There were others in Canada at the time from other areas of Egejska who had nothing to do with MPO. As Risto alluded to, you have to consider their sphere of influence back home, ie who ran the churches and schools.
                        Last edited by El Bre; 02-28-2010, 11:14 PM.

                        Comment

                        • MP_MK
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 332

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                          Ok, we all know it is Tashkovich. Let's just put it out there.
                          I was looking for more of a confirmation form RTG that this particular individual knows what he is talking about, rather than a name lol.
                          Last edited by MP_MK; 02-28-2010, 10:54 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #14
                            I did not even know who you were alluding to.
                            Further, (now that I do), I would not think Tashkovic would be the foremost authority on matters such as this. Not taking away anything from him but I just did not think he would work in those spheres. There is significant difference between being intelligent and being informed.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • osiris
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1969

                              #15
                              the mpo was the right wing fascist leaning orgnisation as it would have been if it was pro bulgarian there existed another the mp league who after the ww2 were destroyed by the us for being un american.

                              the bitovs have contributed to the macedonian cause vangelovski, they are not untainted by their association with the old mpo, but they are patriotic active and generous to the cause.

                              Comment

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