Macedonia Passes Albanian Language Law

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Albo
    Member
    • May 2014
    • 304

    #76
    Originally posted by mklion View Post
    Albanians have made up approximately 30% of the births in the country for close to 30 years. The actual number of Albanians in the country has not changed since the early to mid 90s. The reason there has not been a change is because their emigration numbers are so high.

    The best indicator of what is actually happening in the country is to look at the most vital statistic of the Albanians by looking at the total students in primary and secondary school education. The Macedonian State Statistical office has all of these stats if you just dig in and read about them.

    The State Statistical Office is specialised and independent organisation within the state administration in the Republic of Macedonia. The basic functions of the institution are collecting, processing and disseminating statistical data about the demographic, social and economic situation of the Macedonian society.



    There are stats for the number of Albanian students in primary and lower secondary education since 1966. Here are the stats taken from the Macedonian SSO.

    Albanian students........Total
    1966 41426...............257858 (16.1%)
    1967 43735….............257508 (17.0%)
    1968 47372...............257949 (18.4%)
    1969 50347...............259394 (19.4%)
    1970 53020..........…...260033 (20.4%)
    1971 54801...............262863 (20.8%)
    1972 59047...............266205 (22.1%)
    1973 63170...............268120 (23.6%)
    1974 64919...............?
    1975 67817...............270154 (25.1%)
    1976 69963...............272370 (25.6%)
    1977 71521...............272885 (26.2%)
    1978 73718...........…..274015 (26.9%)
    1979 74402...............273182 (27.2%)
    1980 75676...............272344 (27.8%)
    1981 75371...............271631 (27.7%)
    1982 76218............….271727 (28.0%)
    1983 76340...............272304 (28.0%)
    1984 76297….............272698 (28.0%)
    1985 76533….............273219 (28.0%)
    1986 76210................272564 (28.0%)
    1987 75221................273386 (27.5%)
    1988 74425................271915 (27.4%)
    1989 72651................268960 (27.0%)
    1990 72121................266813 (27.0%)
    1991 69950................261127 (26.8%)
    1992 69952................258955 (27.0%)
    1993 70320................258671 (27.2%)
    1994 71490................260197 (27.5%)
    1995 72142................259515 (27.8%)
    1996 73352................258587 (28.6%)
    1997 74122................256275 (28.9%)
    1998 76090................255150 (29.8%)
    1999 76752................252212 (30.4%)
    2000 75571................246490 (30.7%)
    2001 76087................242707 (31.3%)
    2002 75543................235516 (32.1%)
    2003 75015................229564 (32.7%)
    2004 74200................223876 (33.1%)
    2005 79428................235185 (34.0%)
    2006 78486................228207 (33.8%)
    2007 75141.….............220833 (33.6%)
    2008 72570................215078 (33.2%)
    2009 69922................208980 (33.0%)
    2010 66156................201914 (32.3%)
    2011 65085................197859 (32.5%)
    2012 63483................194055 (32.3%)
    2013 62118................190541 (32.6%)
    2014 62012................188361 (32.9%)
    2015 60127................185119 (32.4%)

    Couple of points from the following graph

    1. Albanian student population had real "growth" in number size from 1966 to 1986. This corresponded to a student population increase in percentage share from 16.1% to 28%.

    2. From 1987 onward the population stagnated with an average around 70-75000 students up to a peak of 79428 students in 2005. This trend from these years is the Albanian population hitting a plateau and failing to grow further.

    3. Percentage share of Albanian students grew from 1992 to 2006 from 27.0% to a maximum of 34.0%. This growth happened because total student population started to tank (ie Macedonians having less kids and Albanians emigrating from the country) and NOT because of growth in Albanian numbers (except for one strong outlier year in 2005)

    4. From 2005 onward the percentage dropped from a peak of 34% to 32.4%. There has never been a consecutive 7 year drop in Albanian students since record taking began in 1966. This is showing that the Albanian student population is falling faster than the total student population.

    A few more points to consider.
    1. in 2015 school year the total number of Albanians in school is around 60000 which is approximately the same number of Albanian students that were in school in 1972

    2. On average in one year Albanians lose from 1500-2000 students. But this is students only, that means that for each Albanian student that emigrates there is one mother and one father that emigrates as well. So This means that MINIMUM 1500 X 3 = 4-4500 Albanians emigrate from the country on average per year assuming two adults take one kid. This figure also does not account for young educated emigrants who do not have kids or emigrants who return to Macedonia just to marry an Albanian and make that other young Albanian emigrate.

    3. There are approximately 7-7500 Albanian births in the country per year. Deaths are approximately 3-4000. So Deaths + Emigration = NO POPULATION GROWTH.


    Now onto the good stuff.

    If Macedonia was to hold a census with proper methodology then the numbers would read like this:

    Total Population - 175-1800000 million
    Macedonian 1125000 = 62.5%
    Albanian 470000 = 26%
    Turkish 70000 = 4%
    Romani 60000 = 3%
    Serbs 30000 = 1%
    All others 45000 = 2.5%


    These estimates are based on the statistical research I have been doing on the country over the past 3-4 years and these numbers are derived from births, deaths, student population, calculated total fertility rates for each municipality and emigration approximations.
    I think your statistics are pretty close.. I never said the Albanian birth % is equall to the total population.. fotr many
    reasons it would be lower..

    The only unknown is the total number of people who have migrated outside of the country since 2002 across all ethnic groups..
    Albanian migration has been consistent for decades but what has changed is that ethnic Macedonians have been migrating in very large numbers (especially the youth and rural populations) in the last 10 years.. how many nobody knows.. but ask people in mk and they will tell you that the villages and town are becoming empty due to mass migration.. so I believe that the overall percentages are roughly the same but the total overall population is alarming lower across the country.. this is what I believe is and has kept the census from being held..

    Comment

    • vicsinad
      Senior Member
      • May 2011
      • 2337

      #77
      The Liberal Party in Macedonia says the language law is invalid and unconstitutional.

      The Liberal Party (LP) believes that the Law on the Use of Languages ​​has been passed without proper procedure and is invalid, explaining that the situation is the way it is, because of the viola


      Skopje, 16 March, 2018 - 15:11 (META)*
      The Liberal Party (LP) believes that the Law on the Use of Languages ​​has been passed without proper procedure and is invalid, explaining that the situation is the way it is, because of the violation of the procedure.

      The party says that since the President of the Republic of Macedonia did not sign the decree after the first vote, Parliament had a deadline of 30 days to adopt the amendments and to approve or not pass the law.

      “After the deadline, any procedure and activity related to the text disputed by the President is outside of our legal system. After the expiration of the 30 days, the procedure under this law ceases and it can no longer be considered or voted on, therefore the procedure becomes void. If the Constitutional Court wants to protect the constitutional and legal order of the country, it should conclude that the Law on the Use of Languages ​​has been passed without proper procedure and is invalid”, stated the party.

      LP believe that there is a need for amending the Law on the Use of Languages, but only after the the Constitutional Court annuls it, and “with calm nerves, greater degree of tolerance and broad consensus, the Parliament should adopt a new law that will be in accordance with procedure and will reflect on all suggestions and warnings from the opposition, and both the Venice Commission and the Council of Europe, and will be the basis for a compact and sustainable society, instead of a divided one. ”

      Comment

      • mklion
        Member
        • Jun 2014
        • 100

        #78
        Originally posted by Albo View Post
        I think your statistics are pretty close.. I never said the Albanian birth % is equall to the total population.. fotr many
        reasons it would be lower.

        The only unknown is the total number of people who have migrated outside of the country since 2002 across all ethnic groups..
        Albanian migration has been consistent for decades but what has changed is that ethnic Macedonians have been migrating in very large numbers (especially the youth and rural populations) in the last 10 years.. how many nobody knows.. but ask people in mk and they will tell you that the villages and town are becoming empty due to mass migration.. so I believe that the overall percentages are roughly the same but the total overall population is alarming lower across the country.. this is what I believe is and has kept the census from being held..
        Albanian Births are 30% of the population in Macedonia. Their total capacity they could ever reach in the country is 30%. They wont be able to reach anymore and we could even argue that they wont even reach that.

        Here is the perfect example of how Emigration can hollow out the Albanian community.


        Kichevo Municipality

        As per the 2002 census (with the 2013 re-definition of the municipality boundaries) the ethnic makeup of the municipality is as follows

        Albanians = 30,927 (54.51%)
        Macedonians = 20,278 (35.74%)
        Turks = 2,998 (5.28%)
        Roma = 1,631 (2.87%)
        others = 900 (1.59%)

        Because Albanians have a "higher birth rate" or at least they say they do, they should have a dominant majority in the municipality by now since the census was completed 16 years ago.

        But if you look at the primary and lower secondary student population it is around 50/50 for Macedonians and Albanians

        You can check this publication here

        The State Statistical Office is specialised and independent organisation within the state administration in the Republic of Macedonia. The basic functions of the institution are collecting, processing and disseminating statistical data about the demographic, social and economic situation of the Macedonian society.


        Students according to ethnic affiliation, by municipalities, 2015/2016 (regular primary and lower secondary schools) for Kicevo Municipality

        Total Students............3658
        Macedonian................1436 (40%)
        Albanian.....................1558 (42%)
        Turkish.......................287 (8%)
        Roma.........................369 (10%)
        Vlachs.........................2 (0.05%)
        Serbs..........................3 (0.05%)
        Other..........................3 (0.05%)

        So with the supposed "high birth rates" of the Albanians they should be a super majority in the municipality, instead they are barely hanging on to being a majority. They actually will probably be below 40% of students in the next 5 years or so just showing the general trend across the country.

        With every young vital Albanian that emigrates the less the likelihood Greater Albania becomes reality.

        Comment

        • Amphipolis
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 1328

          #80
          I think I get the legal argument. So, Albanian language is "upgraded" but does not become an official language (which would seem uncostitutional to me). Yet, still I can't really understand what this law means or why it is good or necessary or harmful.

          Albo, can you give us a practical example of this law's provisions?

          Comment

          • mklion
            Member
            • Jun 2014
            • 100

            #82
            Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
            I think I get the legal argument. So, Albanian language is "upgraded" but does not become an official language (which would seem uncostitutional to me). Yet, still I can't really understand what this law means or why it is good or necessary or harmful.

            Albo, can you give us a practical example of this law's provisions?
            The problem with the whole Albanian platform in the country is that they believe they deserve things not because they are citizens of a country but because they are a certain ethnicity. Instead of saying "let's make the economy better so the country can be better they say "I deserve stuff because I am an Albanian"

            This mentality holds 25% of the country back in needless rules regulations laws that do nothing to further a progressive society.

            Albo, please tell me one thing that Albanians have done to benefit the country? Anything ? A law they spearheaded or introduced into parliament that had nothing to do with being Albanian? Maybe an economic platform? Business laws? Boosting investments ?

            Name me one law that Ahmeti has introduced that has actually helped ALL citizens of the Republic?

            Yup that's what I thought
            Last edited by mklion; 03-16-2018, 05:37 PM.

            Comment

            • Solun
              Member
              • Sep 2012
              • 166

              #84
              There will not be a problem recruiting the thousands of Albanian language teachers required for the new law:


              It would be easy to settle hundreds of thousands of settlers in Central and Eastern Macedonia and we know Kosovars and Albanians would jump at the chance. Sadly, in order to hold on to power, Zaev has to say "Yes" to anything Sela and Ahmeti ask of him.

              Comment

              • Pelagonija
                Member
                • Mar 2017
                • 533

                #86
                Originally posted by Albo View Post
                Жбогар: Законот за јазици да се имплементира поскоро

                http://tv21.tv/mk/?p=170839q
                Albo don't you think that it would be more logical for zbogar to be concerned with the rights of the ethnic Russians in the Baltics where they currently have no cultural or language rights?

                You can throw in EUs fascist proxy Ukraine too. The rights of Albanians in FYROM exceeds the rights of the above groups by %100.

                Odd? Logical? Nay yay?

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #87
                  Albo gets quiet every time we remind him the Macedonians are in no way advantaged over the ethnic Albanian minority when it comes to living standards. If he annoys you, just remind him and he will go away for a while. He will come back when he can think of another conspiracy theory.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • vicsinad
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2011
                    • 2337

                    #88
                    Albanians can't be trusted. The more you give them, the more they want. They don't respect Macedonia or the Macedonians. As evidence:



                    Abdulla Mehmeti, head of the Albanian-American Academy based in Skopje, says that in case of compromise, the new name should reflect the multi-ethnic reality in the country.

                    “Any name that will not reflect the ethnic, historical, cultural and linguistic reality of the state, will be categorically unacceptable for Albanians in Macedonia”, says Abdulla Mehmeti for IBNA. He says that a memorandum has been drafted and will be sent to institutions in the country and international institutions.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      #89
                      Nobody respects the Macedonians in Macedonia because they don't respect themselves. The rubbish they tolerate makes them targets.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • mklion
                        Member
                        • Jun 2014
                        • 100

                        #90
                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        Albo gets quiet every time we remind him the Macedonians are in no way advantaged over the ethnic Albanian minority when it comes to living standards. If he annoys you, just remind him and he will go away for a while. He will come back when he can think of another conspiracy theory.
                        That's what he fails to realize. People are poor because the country is poor and not due to some state wide discrimination that targets only Albanians. If Albanians are so unhappy of their socioeconomic status in the country why not complain to their elected officials ? 20 out of the 120 MPs in parliament are Albanian.

                        So it's either the population that's the problem (Ie they don't want to be helped and as a result are not loyal to the state) or their elected officials are the problem.

                        Here is an example. Why don't the Albanians in parliament have a "pro ecomonic prosperity" agenda instead of a "let's albanize Macedonia " agenda ? I mean what good is having Albanian language official if you don't have a job to support your family with ?

                        Or maybe the agenda is a greater Albania ? Well yes we know this is the agenda.
                        Last edited by mklion; 03-21-2018, 11:26 AM.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X