Financial Crisis in Greece

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • osiris
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1969

    no more greek coffee sessions lasting for hours while expecting germany to keep filling their coffers with euros

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      Greece Bracing For Nationwide Shutdown
      You mean they will stop doing what they have been doing for the last 20 years?
      What will be different?
      Will the Albanians keep working?

      Greece has been in shutdown for decades. For something different, they should start working as a form of protest.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Spartan
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1037

        Risto, you kill me man
        Oh, and you are pretty near the mark as well
        We definitely dont like to work!!!!!

        Comment

        • Prolet
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 5241

          I still dont understand how they can owe so much money, its like they just spent everything and havnt saved anything at all. What terrible domakini they are.
          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

          Comment

          • Prolet
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2009
            • 5241

            A diplomatic row brewing with Germany?

            German Humor enrages Greece
            Tuesday, 23 February 2010



            Greece's Foreign Ministry has called the German Ambassador in Athens for discussion after an article in German magazine Focus heart Greek's feelings.

            Interestingly enough, the Greeks don't seem to mind the negative write up in the magazine, rather concentrate on Focus' magazine cover where a what appears to be half naked Venus (the goddess of Love) sculpture wrapped in blue and white flag gives the finger. The German magazine devoted its weekly magazine to Greece, with the title "The Liars in the Euro Family"

            Greek parliament members speaking to Athens media claimed the Germans must be careful what they say about Athens because the Balkan nation is one of the top buyers of German weaponries. Though word out of German manufacturer (HDW) is that Greece is the last country they would sell weapons because they still haven't collected money for the submarines they sold few years ago.

            Western humor and freedom of speech remains a thorn issue for inter state tensions. Recently several European countries and Germany in particular have been on the offensive against Athens due to their debt problems.

            But as our MINA analyst Gorazd Velkovski says, EU has a hidden agenda and are using the Balkan nation's debt problem for much more sinister plans. More on that later.

            МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

            Comment

            • Bratot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2855

              We are going back in the 60-70 years of 20th century.
              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

              Comment

              • Buktop
                Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 934

                Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                I still dont understand how they can owe so much money, its like they just spent everything and havnt saved anything at all. What terrible domakini they are.
                Like I said before, because the Greek National Bank doesn't have control over funds rates, they have used government spending as a way to control their economy, this was basically their way of plugging some holes without actually fixing the ship, and now they are sinking.
                "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                Never once say you walk upon your final way
                though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                Our long awaited hour will draw near
                and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                  Like I said before, because the Greek National Bank doesn't have control over funds rates, they have used government spending as a way to control their economy, this was basically their way of plugging some holes without actually fixing the ship, and now they are sinking.
                  Would you suggest this is a compelling argument against joining the EU?
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Buktop
                    Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 934

                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Would you suggest this is a compelling argument against joining the EU?
                    It is a compelling argument against joining the EMU, not the EU.
                    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                    Never once say you walk upon your final way
                    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                    Our long awaited hour will draw near
                    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                    Comment

                    • makedonche
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 3242

                      Theodoros Pangalos, thanks for clarifying that for us I thought it was the reckless spending of the Greeks that led them where they are, I'm relieved to know it was the EU's fault for not showing any leadership. I'ts like me saying "my mortgage problems are my banks fault they should have known better than to lend me that much money."
                      Wake up and smell the turkish coffee!!!!
                      On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                      Comment

                      • TrueMacedonian
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 3810

                        Bond Market Simulation Shows Greece Cursed by Euro



                        Bond Market Simulation Shows Greece Cursed by Euro

                        FEBRUARY 24, 2010, 4:02 P.M. ET

                        By MICHAEL CASEY

                        It's impossible to analyze Greece's debt crisis in isolation from the euro.

                        On the one hand, membership has its privileges: Until revelations of dubious accounting and a ballooning fiscal deficit forced its bonds into a nosedive late last year, sharing a currency with 15 other stronger countries meant Greece could borrow at relatively cheap rates. Theoretically, at least, the euro zone's debt and deficit rules gave investors comfort that government spending would not run out of control.

                        Yet now that the budget reality is hitting home, the euro has turned into a straitjacket for Greece: it can't devalue its currency or loosen monetary policy to stimulate its economy and, if necessary, inflate its way out of its debt crisis. All this has left Greece's bonds trading at a wide risk premium of around 3.4 percentage points over comparable German bunds.

                        So it's worth posing a hypothetical question: Where would Greece's bonds trade were the country not part of the euro zone?

                        The answer depends on the scenario: Are we talking about the Greece of today dumping the euro or about a Greece that never joined the common currency in the first place?


                        If Greece were to leave the euro zone now, the act itself would likely result in either a default or a bond restructuring as the government would be forced to pay back debt quoted in strong euros with devalued drachmas. Inevitably, its bond prices would fall sharply, pushing yields sharply higher.

                        In the case of a devaluation and an involuntary default without any coordination with creditors, bond holders face significant losses. In its most recent study of sovereign defaults over the past decade, Moody's Investor Services found that recovery rates averaged just 38 cents for every dollar of face value. Greece's result would depend on the extent of the devaluation, the legal wording of its bond contracts, and the overall state of global markets at the time.

                        But a Greek exit from the euro could occur in concert with a voluntary restructuring by creditors. Considering the "quite high recoveries" achieved under such deals, this would leave Greek bonds trading "with a low-teens yield," said Brian Yelvington, director of fixed-income research at Knight Libertas. Greek 10-year bonds currently yield around 6.5%.

                        But had Greece never joined the euro zone, the tables turn for the better.

                        Other non-euro countries with similar debt dynamics currently trade at yields lower than Greece's. Neighboring Bulgaria, for example, has a nine-year bond that's yielding around 6.0%, although its BBB rating from Standard Poor's is two notches below that of Greece. And the Czech Republic, which shares the same single-A rating as Greece, has a 10-year bond that yields just below 4.5%.

                        The discrepancy suggests the euro has been a curse for Greece. Without the single currency, it would have had policy flexibility to better manage revenue. Yet it would also have been subject to more rigorous market discipline and might not have gotten itself into its current heavily indebted state.

                        "The compression of spreads (over bunds) since the euro was introduced essentially allowed countries like Greece to leverage up with easier finance," said James Sweeney, director of fixed income research at Credit Suisse.

                        Greece's debt load would be lower without the euro, notwithstanding the euro zone rules, he added. "It's almost a moral hazard that's built into the system."

                        Without the euro, Sweeney said, "I would think Greece's (risk premiums) would be less than where they are now."

                        Write to Michael Casey at [email protected]
                        Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                        Comment

                        • TrueMacedonian
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 3810

                          US Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said Wednesday the economic woes facing Greece stem from fiscal and competitiveness issues, but that Europeans were focused on fixing the problems.


                          Greece problems tied to budget, competitivity: Bernanke
                          24 February 2010, 17:57 CET
                          — filed under: Greece, finance, economy, US
                          (WASHINGTON) - US Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said Wednesday the economic woes facing Greece stem from fiscal and competitiveness issues, but that Europeans were focused on fixing the problems.

                          "The very serious problem here is not involving only fiscal issues, but also competitiveness issues because of the single exchange rate," Bernanke told a congressional panel when asked about Greece's deep financial troubles.

                          "But you know, we have talked to the European leaders, they're very focused on getting this problem solved."

                          Under acute pressure from its 15 eurozone partners, the Socialist Greek government has pledged to slash its deficit this year, agreeing to painful public spending cuts that have sparked a national strike.

                          Bernanke said that for the Fed, "we are keeping an eye on it, but the Europeans of course, it's most relevant to them and they're most exposed to those problems. And they're very focused on trying to get them under control."

                          On Wednesday, police fired tear gas and clashed with youths as tens of thousands protested in Athens, Thessaloniki and other main Greek cities against the austerity measures to tame a public debt crisis.

                          Text and Picture Copyright 2010 AFP. All other Copyright 2010 EUbusiness Ltd. All rights reserved. This material is intended solely for personal use. Any other reproduction, publication or redistribution of this material without the written agreement of the copyright owner is strictly forbidden and any breach of copyright will be considered actionable.
                          Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                          Comment

                          • TrueMacedonian
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 3810

                            Germany will watch modern 'greece' fall



                            Q+A-Germany's debate on aid for debt-stricken Greece

                            BERLIN, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Germany has said it has no concrete plans to give aid to Greece, after a magazine reported it had sketched out a proposal in which euro zone members would provide some 20-25 billion euros of support.

                            Officials in Chancellor Angela Merkel's ruling coalition concede in private that contingency plans have been drawn up should Athens be unable to service its debt.

                            Some legal experts have questioned the legality of providing aid. That could complicate any rescue effort, which would be led by Germany, the biggest economy in the bloc.

                            A German economics professor and euro critic told a newspaper he planned to take legal action if Germany and other EU countries were to grant financial aid to Greece [ID:nLDE61M0E4].

                            Following are some questions and answers on the issue:


                            WHY IS GERMANY RELUCTANT TO HELP?

                            Germany has worked hard to consolidate its public finances in recent years and is loathe to shell out for another country's fiscal mistakes.

                            It is embroiled in public debate over the sustainability of its own welfare system for a population that is shrinking and ageing.

                            The idea of providing assistance to "profligate" EU partners like Greece has been pilloried in sections of the German press.

                            Surveys show Germans are overwhelmingly opposed to Berlin riding to the rescue of Athens. Moreover, Merkel faces a big electoral test in May, when voters go to the polls in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), Germany's most populous state.

                            If her centre-right coalition of Christian Democrats and Free Democrats cannot form another NRW government, it will lose its majority in the Bundesrat, the upper house of parliament.

                            Berlin worries that if it helps Greece, other states may follow in asking for help.

                            WHAT IS THE LEGAL SITUATION?

                            Rules on assisting member states are laid out in the EU treaty, whose contents have been interpreted in various ways.

                            Article 125 stipulates that both the EU and a member state "shall not be liable for or assume the commitments of central governments ... without prejudice to mutual financial guarantees for the joint execution of a specific project".

                            But article 122 says the EU Council may grant assistance "where a member state is in difficulties or is seriously threatened with severe difficulties caused by natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control".

                            Andrew Scott, an EU expert at Edinburgh University's law faculty, said the main barrier to bilateral aid was political.

                            "The no-bailout clause does not stop the German government using taxpayers' money to buy up Greek debt," he said. "But if you bail out Greece from within, the markets will never take seriously a risk premium for a debt-ridden member state again."

                            Behind the conundrum lies a "constitutional problem" inside the EU for which the bloc does not yet have an answer, said Frank Schorkopf, a legal expert at Goettingen University.


                            WHO ELSE COULD HELP GREECE?

                            Many analysts say a rescue led by the International Monetary Fund could offer the cleanest solution.

                            The EU has so far resisted this, wary that it could be seen as an indictment of the budget rules designed to underpin the euro and the bloc's policing of member states' finances.

                            Another option may be to front-load funds due to Greece from the EU's 2007-2013 budget. The European Investment Bank and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development have also been mooted as potential sources of aid.


                            IS GERMANY LIKELY TO PAY UP IF NECESSARY?

                            Germany invested huge political capital in the introduction of the euro and few doubt it would act to save Greece if the single currency was threatened.

                            Its financial sector could also suffer massive writedowns from a Greek insolvency due to hefty exposure there, according to reports.

                            However, Germany's exporters have profited from a decline in the euro's exchange rate against the dollar during the Greek crisis, which may have sapped some urgency from Berlin's desire to act.

                            Leading newspapers have begun questioning the way the euro was launched and even whether it should have been launched at all. Some want Greece thrown out of the currency bloc.


                            HOW MIGHT AID WORK?

                            German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble favours bilateral aid for Greece if necessary, according to media reports.

                            Sources in the ruling coalition have said state-owned bank KfW could be used to buy Greek government bonds. A separate proposal saw the KfW issuing guarantees to German banks that bought Greek debt.

                            Any assistance is likely to require assurances from Greece to cut spending and submit to close financial oversight. (Reporting by Dave Graham; editing by Andrew Roche)
                            Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                            Comment

                            • TrueMacedonian
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 3810



                              Germany parries Greek broadside over Nazi occupation

                              BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany on Wednesday rejected Greek accusations that Berlin had failed to properly compensate Greece for Nazi occupation in World War Two, saying it had provided billions of euros worth of aid.

                              In a radio interview, Greek Deputy Prime Minister Theodoros Pangalos criticized Germany's attitude toward the Greek debt crisis and said Athens had never received adequate compensation for the impact of Nazi Germany's invasion of Greece in 1941.

                              "They took away the Greek gold that was at the Bank of Greece, they took away the Greek money and they never gave it back. This is an issue that has to be faced sometime in the future," he told the BBC World Service radio.

                              "I don't say they have to give back the money necessarily but they have at least to say 'thanks'," he added.

                              The German foreign ministry dismissed the remarks and said bringing up the past would not help Greece solve its problems.

                              "I must reject these accusations," ministry spokesman Andreas Peschke said.

                              Germany had paid compensation to Greece of some 115 million deutschemarks by 1960 and made further payments to forced laborers of the Nazi regime, he said.

                              "Finally, I'd like to mention that parallel to this, since 1960 Germany has paid around 33 billion deutschemarks in aid to Greece both bilaterally and in the context of the EU," he said.


                              Germans got roughly one euro for two deutschemarks when the single European currency was adopted in notes and coins in 2002.

                              "A discussion about the past is not helpful at all to solve the problems...facing us in Europe today," Peschke said.

                              Greece is under mounting pressure from markets and EU policymakers to slash its large debt and deficit.

                              It must prove to Brussels by mid-March that it can meet its ambitious targets to cut the budget shortfall by 4 percent of gross domestic product this year to 8.7 percent.

                              Greek politicians have been outraged by coverage of the debt crisis in German media, like a front-page picture in magazine Focus of a "Venus de Milo"-type statue making an obscene finger gesture with the headline "Swindlers in the euro zone."

                              Pangalos also said Italy had done more than Greece to mask the state of its finances to secure euro zone entry.

                              The European Union has asked Greece to explain reports that it engaged in derivatives trades with U.S. investment banks that may have allowed it to mask the size of its debt and deficit from EU authorities ahead of its entry into the euro zone.

                              "You simply put some amounts of money in the next year ... it is what everybody did and Greece did it to a lesser extent than Italy for example," Pangalos said.
                              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                              Comment

                              • drle
                                Junior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 39

                                I spoke to uncle who lives in Lerin last week, and he said that the country was in deep shit...reason being.."Na Manoli ne mu se raboti, za to Grcija nema pari" and its so true, the Greeks want to maintain a lifesyle which involves no work and all play and then expects someone like Germany who maintain a very Western lifestyle in terms of work ethic and everything else to save them.

                                Its a bit like the Prodical son....however I strongly believe the EU is not one to forgive Greece this time for their actions...I think Greece has to start acting responsible for their own actions....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X