DPmNE's track record

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    URL:


    Судскиот доставувач не може да го најде Груевски

    Судскиот доставувач вечерва не го пронашол на домашна адреса Никола Груевски за да му го врачи упатот за извршување затворска казна од две години.

    Неговата сопруга Боркица, според неофицијални информации, во два наврати на судскиот доставувач му рекла дека Груевски не е дома.

    URL:




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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      На што падна ВМРО ДПМНЕ

      Објавено на 29 ноември, 2018

      URL:
      Од десетици илјади луѓе на ули


      Од десетици илјади луѓе на улиците до пред некоја година кога беше на власт и ги организираше контра протестите, денес ВМРО ДПМНЕ успеа да собере нешто повеќе од илјада луѓе на “големиот” протестен марш.

      Која е причината за ваквиот катастрофален епилог од вчерашниот протестен митинг?

      ВМРО ДПМНЕ најавува дека секоја среда ќе организира вакви маршеви, но дали партијата добива од тоа?

      Освен нервозни возачи кои мака мачат да си одат дома во своите домови поради секојдневните блокади на улиците во Скопје од разно-разни организации, ваквите протести не влијаат добро ниту за опозицијата, бидејќи слабиот одзив отсликува една слаба партија сметаат аналитичарите.

      Опозициската ВМРО ДПМНЕ која со години беше најмоќниот политички фактор во државава во последниве месеци доживува колапс на сите полиња, а се’ се засили со лошата проценка да се бојкотира септемврискиот референдум, а продолжи со одметнувањето на 8-те пратеници, но и бркањето на повеќе видни членови како градоначалникот на Кавадарци Митко Јанчев, но некогашниот шеф на УБК Сашо Мијалков. Тука е замрзнувањето на имотот и новите истраги од СЈО кои директно ја поврзуваат партијата со сомневања за корупција.

      А како круна на целата оваа тажна вмровска лакрдија беше и бегството на екс-премиерот Никола Груевски во Унгарија, кое што дефинитивно и го зададе последниот “бокс” на партијата за денес да дојде на ова ниво.

      Многумина веќе си го поставуваат прашањето: Дали можеби е време за една нова модерна десничарска партија во Македонија, која што нема да го користи предзнакот на историското ВМРО?

      Анкети: СДСМ силно води пред ВМРО ДПМНЕ, Заев тројно пред Мицкоски

      Во случај да има предвремени парламентарни избори, најголем број од испитаниците, односно 29,1 отсто ќе гласаат за Коалицијата предводена од СДСМ, а 18,1 отсто за Коалицијата на ВМРО – ДПМНЕ, покажува октомвриската анкета која за потребите на ТВ24 ја направи ТИМ институт.

      Од друга страна пак Премиерот Зоран Заев е најпопуларен лидер со поддршка од над 21 отсто од граѓаните кои се изјасниле дека имаат доверба во него.

      Три пати повеќе или 14 процентни поени повеќе од Христијан Мицкоски, за кој се произнеле само 7,4 отсто од граѓаните.

      На бегалецот Груевски му веруваат само 2,7 отсто од испитаниците на неодамнешната анкета на Телма и МЦМС, што ја направи агенцијата М-проспект.

      Следен после Мицкоски е Иванов со 6,12 отсто поддршка, по него Ахмети со 5,7, а петти е претседателот на Алијанса за Албанците, Зијадин Села, со 3,8 отсто поддршка.
      Last edited by Carlin; 11-28-2018, 10:40 PM.

      Comment

      • Rogi
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 2343

        Carlin, that's a bullshit article and not worth circulating. The drone footage shows a hell of a lot more than "a little over 1,000 people" as the author of that article claims and those survey results are about as accurate at the ones that were suggesting the overwhelming majority of the population was going to get out and vote "YES" in the referendum on September 30th.

        Comment

        • Gocka
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2012
          • 2306

          Ok how many were there then? 2000, 4000? In the end so what? Isn't DPMNE a dead party and rightfully so? The author ends with "maybe its time for a new right wing party in Macedonia", I see nothing wrong with that statement and frankly welcome it.

          Originally posted by Rogi View Post
          Carlin, that's a bullshit article and not worth circulating. The drone footage shows a hell of a lot more than "a little over 1,000 people"
          The overwhelming majority did vote yes. Some did it by voting at the referendum, the rest did it by doing nothing about it. One way or another an overwhelming majority clearly supports a name change. I think its been long enough now that we can all agree on that fact.

          the author of that article claims and those survey results are about as accurate at the ones that were suggesting the overwhelming majority of the population was going to get out and vote "YES" in the referendum on September 30th.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            Yes. The writing WAS on the wall. Now it's on the legislation. Plenty of time to emphatically refute this treachery. And yet, we will have Macedonians accepting this with silent optimism and DPmNE supporters trying to revise history precisely as it happens.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Rogi
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2343

              Gocka,
              I do not agree with your view about the overwhelming majority of Macedonians supporting the name change, all the numbers in every electorate suggest otherwise.

              Comment

              • Rogi
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2343

                I also think the article is written with an agenda and all of the inaccuracies in the article are there purposefully to drive that agenda.

                That agenda as I see it is not to help create a new right wing party in Macedonia, but rather to further pacify the nation into the belief of hopelessness and helplessness.

                Comment

                • Gocka
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 2306

                  You have every right to hold that view though I fail to see how you could hold that view in good faith. You are not being honest with yourself if you believe that anyone can honestly and wholeheartedly be against such an act of treason, and yet do absolutely nothing about it. I have irrefutable proof to back up my assertion, its there for all of to see in plain sight. Not even a tiny minority has come out to oppose any of it, let alone a majority. What proof do you have to the contrary? Threats on Facebook and twitter? Heated arguments in the cafes? The infamous boycott?

                  Politics is like sports. There is the hype the buildup the smack talk, but it all comes down to who shows up on game day.. Game day came and went, and we all know who won. All the shit talk, all the empty threats and machismo mean nothing at this point. Macedonianism lost and we all know why. Everything else is revisionism.

                  Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                  Gocka,
                  I do not agree with your view about the overwhelming majority of Macedonians supporting the name change, all the numbers in every electorate suggest otherwise.
                  I wouldn't worry too much about being more passive, If they get anymore passive they will stop breathing.

                  Telling the truth about a cowardly and corrupt political party that wants to pretend like they are not a bunch of liars and traitors is not hopeless and helpless. Mindlessly putting your faith in those cowards over and over is hopeless and helpless, actually its more like insanity.

                  Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                  , but rather to further pacify the nation into the belief of hopelessness and helplessness.
                  While we are on the subject. How would you describe DPMNE's actions before, during, and after the name change? Enlighten me please.

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    A second group of DPMNE MPs will support constitutional changes

                    The biggest influence on the decision of the MPs to support the constitutional name changes had the "double politics" of the leadership of VMRO-DPMNE towards that issue, say party sources.

                    Several (additional) MPs from the opposition VMRO-DPMNE are ready to support the constitutional changes, when in the last phase of the vote a two-thirds majority will be needed again, according to sources from VMRO-DPMNE. Their number, and names, are not being disclosed in order to prevent any pressure and inconvenience against them by the well-known centers in charge of 'disciplining and re-education'.

                    URL:

                    Comment

                    • Rogi
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2343

                      Gocka,
                      I don't think you have any irrefutable proof at all, pr any proof whatsoever, to say that the majority of Macedonians support a name change.

                      The polls, referendum result, storming of parliament, boycott movement, blokiram movement, protests all tell a different story.

                      If I followed your reasoning, you'd conclude that the majority of Macedonians wanted to stay under Ottoman rule, because so few took up arms. Or the majority of Macedonians wanted to remain in Yugoslavia because so few took a stand.


                      As for your question on DPMNE, I think they are a disaster through and through, not far behind SDSM and quite possibly in cahoots with them given things like protests in Gevgelija when there's an end of days vote taking place in the parliament in Skopje on the same day, dividing the patriotic crowd. I think they should drop VMRO from their name. They are just a legal political entity who has veered too far from the Macedonian cause and should only be seen as a political entity of no real national value. The situation in Macedonia requires/required revolutionary action, not political posturing.

                      What I do see though is, due to some expectation of DPMNE to be patriotic but no such expectation of SDSM, that there is a lot of commentary on DPMNE bashing them, with next to no commentary about SDSM - much like the attention given to the 7 treasonous MP's from DPMNE, with very little mention of the 71 other MPs who did the same thing, which includes ALL of SDSM. End result of that being DPMNE losing its support base, but SDSM maintaining theirs, which then further forces the weaklings in DPMNE into submission. I'd like to see all the traitors face the fate, the same attention, the same protests in front of their homes, etc.
                      Last edited by Rogi; 12-01-2018, 04:37 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        70 public prosecutors in Macedonia wiretapped in new scandal

                        URL:
                        Macedonian prosecutors have launched a pre-investigative procedure to probe the latest scandal related to the wiretapping of the fixed phones in the ...


                        Macedonian prosecutors have launched a pre-investigative procedure to probe the latest scandal related to the wiretapping of the fixed phones in the Public Prosecution Office building, the office said on November 30.

                        This is the second wiretapping scandal in the last few years, after the major one that broke out in Macedonia in 2015, when Zoran Zaev, then the leader of the opposition Social Democrats and now Macedonia’s prime minister, revealed that VMRO-DPMNE which was in power at the time had eavesdropped on over 20,000 people, including its own politicians, journalists and other public figures. The scandal led to the toppling of the VMRO-DPMNE led government after 10 years in power.

                        In the new scandal, some 70 prosecutors were revealed to have been wiretapped in the period from September 30, 2016 until today.

                        The new building of the Public Prosecution Office was opened in 2013, as part of the Skopje 2014 revamp of the capital city, when VMRO-DPMNE was in power.

                        The probe is intended to establish if the wiretapping equipment was installed at that time.

                        "Following initial findings, the recording was carried out on two hard disks of the phone exchange located in the premises of the Public Prosecutor's Office Skopje," the office said in the statement.

                        The prosecutors will investigate all aspects of the event, including checking the tender documentation for the procurement of the equipment and for what purposes the conversations were illegally recorded.

                        Government officials condemned the wiretapping, and said that the structure of the previous VMRO-DPMNE-led government could be involved.

                        The interior ministry has also been included in the probe.

                        Comment

                        • Gocka
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2012
                          • 2306

                          The irrefutable proof Rogi is the fact that no one has done anything about it. The issue is so polarizing, so unavoidable that if anyone really cared about it, the urge to do something would be undeniable. That urge does not exist, and thus no matter what anyone says, you can not convince me that people really give a shit. This was not some insignificant political maneuver, this was an action that cut at the core of who we are as people. If that doesn't motivate someone to do something, then guess what, THEY DON'T CARE. That is the strongest proof anyone can have. actions are the strongest proof and trounce empty words every day. Peoples actions are all that matter. On that basis, yes, it is irrefutable. Do you have evidence of actions that prove otherwise?

                          Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                          Gocka,
                          I don't think you have any irrefutable proof at all, pr any proof whatsoever, to say that the majority of Macedonians support a name change.
                          lets break that down:

                          Polls: What polls, this discussion started with your disregard and lack of trust in polls, or is it only in polls you don't agree with?

                          Referendum: The referendum result proved that at least 40 something % support it, do you really believe 100% of everyone who didn't vote was against it? Albanian turnout was only 50% I think its safe to assume there is another 50% of them who support the name change. What about others who just didn't go vote or didn't have time. What about the fact that the voter rolls were unrealistic and that turnout was probably a bit high than official numbers. At best the results are inconclusive, but to deem them a proof to the contrary is naive.

                          Storming: A time when DPMNE still had some political capital and were able to fund and motivate protests. Or do you believe that it is a coincidence that since they lost all power and access to funds, that protests have also stopped totally? Proof that nothing happens in NMK unless it is funded and organized by a political party. This is not proof of opposition to the name change, but rather proof that Macedonians are dogmatic in their support of the hand that feeds them.

                          boycott: I've devoted dozens of posts to the idiocy and immaturity of the so called boycott movement. You can't prove how many people were "boycotting" because it looks the freaking same as people NOT DOING ANYTHING. If you are not out protesting if you are not taking further actions, your act of boycotting is the same as sitting at home on the toilet, its shit. You can't differentiate boycotting from just laziness, not in this case. Boycott and bojkotiram are the same thing so this covers both.

                          Protests: What protests? You claim at least 51% of the country is against a name change. Vast would imply much more 60% 70%. If you believe the voter rolls are correct which you have no choice otherwise you admit the referendum turnout was actually higher; that means around 1,000,000 people are against the name change. How big was the biggest protest against the name change? 1, 2, 3,000? So in a best case scenario only a third of 1% percent of the people who are supposedly adamantly against a name change cared enough to get their ass out and walk up and down a street for an hour. Come on? If they gave out free Skopsko you could get all 1,000,000 to show up an day any time you wanted. Ask them to stand up for their own identity, you get 2,000.

                          The polls, referendum result, storming of parliament, boycott movement, blokiram movement, protests all tell a different story.
                          How much Macedonian history have you read? You realize that in fact the reason many of those rebellions failed was exactly because a large part of Macedonians DIDN'T want change. At least during Ottoman rule as much as 1/3 of all fighting age men were part of the rebellion, and they faced DEATH. If 1/3 of Macedonians came out to protest then you would get 300,000 not 3,000 and they don't face DEATH as a consequence. Macedonia remained part of the Ottoman empire and especially party of Yugoslavia for so long precisely because they DIDN'T want change. As much as we want to pretend that wasn't the case, it was. Upon separation from Yugoslavia, the option to someday reunify was left on the table because so many people wanted that option.

                          So yes, when so few take a stand that tells you something. And by the way, historically, this is the SMALLEST stand Macedonians have ever mustered in the face of adversity. And this adversity is the least DANGEROUS of any adversity they have ever faced. So what do you think that means? I think it means that they don't care. If we got even a 1/3 of the ottoman resistance today, I would be through the roof.

                          If I followed your reasoning, you'd conclude that the majority of Macedonians wanted to stay under Ottoman rule, because so few took up arms. Or the majority of Macedonians wanted to remain in Yugoslavia because so few took a stand.

                          What expectations do you think people would have when you put VMRO in your name. When you claim to be a nationalist part. When you claim to care about our identity? Why would anyone expect a former, communist, liberal, globalist, European party to think nationalistically? Why would anyone have that expectation of SDSM, when SDSM from day one was totally upfront about what they stood for and what they would do? If anything out of the two SDSM was the only honest one. No one cares about the 70 SDSM MP's who voted because they always said the would. Why would we expect otherwise? SDSM can't be faulted for pursing a political agenda that they see as just. DPMNE were the ones who pretended to be outraged. If you voted for SDSM, you got what you voted for. If you voted for DPMNE thinking they would do something to stop this, you were deceived. So yes the expectation of DPMNE is different. Maybe if they were honest and upfront about what kind of cowards they are, we wouldn't have those expectations of them would we?

                          I think you fail to see how a political system works. You have no reason to protest in front of SDSM homes, you didn't vote for them. You voted for the other assholes who promised to do something different.

                          DPMNE didn't even have the balls to tell people to not vote, or to protest, or anything definitive. They played both sides of the coin and now they are trying to rewrite history, and you are helping them do.



                          What I do see though is, due to some expectation of DPMNE to be patriotic but no such expectation of SDSM, that there is a lot of commentary on DPMNE bashing them, with next to no commentary about SDSM - much like the attention given to the 7 treasonous MP's from DPMNE, with very little mention of the 71 other MPs who did the same thing, which includes ALL of SDSM. End result of that being DPMNE losing its support base, but SDSM maintaining theirs, which then further forces the weaklings in DPMNE into submission. I'd like to see all the traitors face the fate, the same attention, the same protests in front of their homes, etc.

                          Comment

                          • Rogi
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2343

                            SDSM was the honest one?

                            Hold on Gocka, SDSM promised before the election that they would not change the name, the leader of that party swore on the life of his children and on his last breath that the name and the constitution would not change.

                            They also signed a letter to the President, which was the basis upon which their mandate was given, that no Tirana platform existed, another thing they said they would not do.

                            So yes, people should be in front of their homes too.

                            And if Macedonians need to do more and be more radical about it, what are you doing, what am I doing, what are we all on here doing? Are we expecting someone else to do something more meaningful?

                            Comment

                            • Karposh
                              Member
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 863

                              What I'm really hoping to see is this sort of thing in front of that cesspool of treason some call the Macedonian Parliament. However, as most of us know, these types of Macedonians are all but extinct today.

                              They would've known exactly how to deal with the traitors inside. And they were really good at it too. Just listen to Nikola Karev explain this point to some malaka that interviewed him in Bitola all those years ago:

                              Greek Journalist: Then why do you murder Greek notables, priests and teachers if you have nothing against anyone?

                              Nikola Karev: These are lies. The Committee doesn't only kill Greeks, but Bulgarians, Serbs and Turks and anyone else that betrays us.

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                                And if Macedonians need to do more and be more radical about it, what are you doing, what am I doing, what are we all on here doing? Are we expecting someone else to do something more meaningful?
                                I expect the people living in that country to make their politicians accountable for their actions. I think it is piss weak to try and lay any blame on the diaspora for what is happening in that dying country.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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