Macedonian and Slavic Placenames in Greece and Albania

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  • Svoliani
    Banned
    • Sep 2008
    • 93

    #76
    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    Metsovone Cheese, LOOOLLLLLLL, on ya Nakov

    Coming from the same person who wrote Kastanitsa - chestnuts.

    Hey, have you ever asked a Croatian or a Polish person how they say 'chestnut'? Perhaps Papadoglou also made colonies in Warsaw

    Oriz in its similar variants is a common European word you fool.

    Dragan is definetly not Slavic? Hahaha


    Please, keep "filtering", the comedy is good.
    My mistake on Metsovo (aminciu).

    For its name there are 2 versions. At first considered that the name has Slavic origin (mets + ovo = village of bears), while the other is deemed to come from the merger of the Greek word medium + vouni, due to its geographical position between two mountains.
    medved - mets - sure why not.

    Dragan from what? The Serbian name Dragan from Drago - dorogo , meaning precious?

    Ill stick with Dragatis, Dragasia is a village close to me and it was called Dislapo before, there is also Draganon and Dragatina.

    As for Kastana,


    'According to Pliny, the Greeks obtained the tree from Sardis in Asia Minor, at least five centuries before the Christian era, a statement which De Candolle doubts, since he considers the tree undoubtedly wild in Greece, where, as early as the fourth century B.C., Theophrastus, "the Father of Botany," speaks of it as covering the slopes of Olympus.'

    1570, from chesten nut (1519), from M.E. chasteine, from O.Fr. chastaigne, from L. castanea, from Gk. kastaneia, which the Greeks thought meant either "nut from Castanea" in Pontus, or "nut from Castana" in Thessaly, but probably both places are named for the trees, not the other way around.'

    Anastasova = ? Anastas clan ?

    Dhromista, Dromitsa - Dromos = road
    Keramitsa - Keramidia = Bricks
    Dospat Dere - Dere, which is the Turkish word for "River",
    Fushtani - Foustani - dress , skirt, latin origin
    Kato Lipochori - Kato = lower Lipos = fat chori = village
    Kerasovo - Kerasia = cherries

    Comment

    • slovenec zrinski
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 385

      #77
      I guess the Croatian village of Draganichi is also a greek name meaning dragon?

      Comment

      • slovenec zrinski
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 385

        #78
        Or the slovenian village Draga, close to Ljubljana....surely greek or "In any case, definitely not slavic" as you would put it....

        Comment

        • Bratot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2855

          #79
          Austro-Hungarian map from 1910 with Macedonian placenames in Albania and Greece

          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

          Comment

          • Bratot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2855

            #80
            Die Slaven in Griechenland von Max Vasmer
            Mit eine Karte

            ( Verlag der Akademie der Wissenschaften, Berlin 1941 )

            ( Zentral Antiquariat der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik, Leipzig 1970 )


            SOURCE



            **********
            III. Verzeichnis der slavischen geographischen Namen nach Landschaften geordnet:
            1. Epirus:
            a) Gebiet von Joannina (334)
            b) Gebiet von Arta (50)
            c) Gebiet von Preveza (34)
            2. Akarnanien-Ätolien (98)
            3. Ionische Inseln (Kerkyra; Leukas; Kephallenia; Ithaka; Zakynthos) (11, 4, 3)
            4. Eurytanien (48)
            5. Thessalien (Gebiet von Trikkala und Karditsa; Gebiet von Larissa; Phthiotis; Magnesia) (122, 38, 55, 15)
            6. Euboia (19)
            7. Insel Andros — 8. Insel Tenos — 9. Insel Skyros
            10. Phokis (45)
            11. Boeotien (22)
            12. Attika (18)
            13. Insel Aigina
            14. Korinth (24)
            15. Argolis. Insel Hydra (18)
            16. Achaia (95)
            17. Elis (34)
            18. Triphylien (42)
            19. Arkadien (94)
            20. Messenien (41)
            21. Lakonien (81)
            22. Kreta (17)
            23. Mazedonien:
            a) Gebiet von Kozani (116)
            b) Gebiet von Florina (165)
            c) Gebiet von Pella (94)
            d) Gebiet von Thessalonike und Chalkidike (152)
            e) Gebiet von Serrai, Nigrita und Siderokastron (111)
            f) Gebiet von Drama und Kavalla (92)
            24. Thrakische Inseln (Insel Thasos; Insel Samothrake)
            25. Thrakien (Gebiet von Xanthe; Gebiet von Ainos (Marica); Gebiet von Adrianopel; Gebiet von Saranda Ekklesiai (Kyrk Kilise); Gebiet von Rhaidestos; Gebiet von Kallipolis (Galipoli)) (9, 11, 10, 5, 11, 4)
            **********


            Another book Славянское население в Албании
            by А. Селищев with MAPS

            source





            The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

            Comment

            • makedonin
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 1668

              #81
              That is definitly a good one Bratot.

              hard ball for the Grekos, who are driled to hate the word Slav
              Last edited by makedonin; 09-27-2008, 03:08 PM.
              To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

              Comment

              • Dimko-piperkata
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1876

                #82
                Macedonian Toponyms in Albania

                Risto Stefov

                Macedonian Topo-onomastic Nomenclature in Albania as recognized by the Investigative Studies of Russian Professor A. Selishchev

                Foreign linguist uncovers Macedonian language

                In the second half of the 19th century the Macedonian language gained the attention of foreign professors from various Slavic Study Centers; an interest which continues to this day. This interest unfortunately carries with it political connotations.

                In the last decades of the 19th century, after Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria were freed from the Ottomans, the map of the Balkans was tailor-made with a single open question; what will happen to Macedonia? And with that question came the insistence that the three states, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria determine Macedonia´s fate by bringing it under the influence of their own orbit.

                Besides their cruel propaganda that was put in play, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria used more refined methods to do the job which included employing linguistics experts to "uncover links of a common heritage" between the Macedonians and their South Slavic speaking neighbours. Depending for which center these so-called linguistic experts worked then they found connections between the Macedonian and the Bulgarian or Serbian languages.

                Many of the professors and academics that came to Macedonia from abroad had little to no understanding of what the Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians were trying to do to fulfill their megalomaniac wishes.

                One of those academics who came to Macedonia and did research on the Macedonian dialects, their meaning and uniqueness, was the well known Slavist Vatroslav Oblak. Oblak published a book entitled "Makedonski studii" (Macedonian Studies) in which he gave serious support to the "Macedonian theory" that the Macedonian language stems from the Old-Slavic language as noted by his professor Vatroslav Jarich.

                Professor A. Selishchev in Macedonia

                Another academic and linguist to visit Macedonia and our main figure in the presentation of evidence with regards to the Macedonian language is the well known Professor from the University of Moscow and Kazanja, Afanasij M. Selishchev.

                As a professor, most of Selishchev´s time had been dedicated to studying and teaching the Old-Slavonic language and doing comparative grammar studies with the other Slavic languages. Selishchev however has also dedicated a lot of time in researching the Macedonian dialects. In 1914, soon after arriving at the University in Kazanja, Selishchev took a trip to Macedonia where he spent over two months doing research on the Macedonian speech in Northern Macedonia; mainly in Tetovo and Tetovo Region.

                There Professor Selishchev collected a wealth of material which he then organized and a year later published, in a report entitled "´Otchet o zan/ti/h za granitsej v letnee vakantsionnoe vrem/ 1914 goda´ _ Uchenye zapisi Kazanskogo Univerziteta".

                In his report Selishchev gives us insight into a different picture of the demographics in Tetovo and Tetovo Region than the one we know about today. Thanks to his critical analysis and effort from nine decades ago, today we have a better picture of the demographics of that region.

                Being familiar with the Slavic languages and with the Macedonian language, Selishchev, during his visit to Macedonia, made notes from what he observed in the various places he visited. These notes were then condensed and combined with other parts of his research in his book "Ocherki po Makedonskoj dialektologii", volume 1, Kazanja 1918. This can be verified by the fact, for example, that he mentions "Chetirijazichnikot" the four-language of Danaila, meaning he combined his results from his various other studies of the region.

                In his study Selishchev has not only given us an extensive review of his study but has also classified the Macedonian dialects, a classification which is considered accurate to this day. Selishchev also took the provocative route, provocative then and provocative now, by placing the Macedonian language in the South Slavic group.

                Direct contact between the Macedonian and Albanian populations

                In another book written by A. Selishchev entitled "Slavjanskoe naselenie v Albanii" (Slav population in Albania) (Sofia, 1931), Professor Selishchev examines the effects of direct contact between the Macedonian and Albanian populations in the Balkans. Here he skillfully examines the dialectal and onomastic characteristics of Western Macedonian speech including the Macedonian speech which falls within the borders of today´s Albania. For his examination he draws on different historical, geographical, ethnographic, folkloric and other sources.

                Besides his professionalism, accuracy and scientific approach to solving problems, Selishchev deserves a mention for conducting studies in the sphere of the Albanian, Greek, Turkish, Aromaic, Serbian and Bulgarian linguistic and cultural traditions. As a foreigner, Selishchev dedicated much effort to exhaustive study of the toponyms, dialects and speech of the Macedonian population in central and south Albania. The information and other material he uncovered and documented in his aforementioned book Selishchev smartly organized in the following chapters:

                1. "Jugozapadnata granitsa, nejzinata rashirenost vo minatoto i postepenoto povlekuvanje kon istok" (South-western border, their dispersal in the past and their gradual easterly return)

                2. "Politichkite, kulturno-opshtestvenite i etnichkite odnosi vo Albanija" (The political, socio-cultural and ethnic positions in Albania)

                3. "Slovenski zaemki vo Albanskiot jazik" (Slav borrowings in the Albanian language)

                4. "Slovenski topografski nazivi vo Albanija" (Slav topographic names in Albania)

                5. "Jazichni posebnosti na slovenskoto naselenie vo Albanija) (Linguistic characteristics in the Slav population in Albania)

                In the first chapter, apart from the language barrier between the Macedonian and Albanian ethnicities spoken since the beginning, the author presents us with a demographic profile of the region, which, according to the evidence presented, is hugely disproportionate between today´s situation and that of ten decades ago.

                The Macedonian character in the phonetic changes in the toponyms in Albania

                It doesn´t matter that Selishchev uses the attribute "Bolgarski" (Bulgarian) to describe the population in Polog, or "Slavjanski" (Slav) when referring to the Macedonian population in Albania ("Polog i ego bolgarskoe naselenie" , "Slavjanskoe naselenie v Albanii"), the material presented, including the toponyms documented by himself, refute his assertions because it shows that there are more particulars connected to the Macedonian than there are to the Bulgarian language. To illustrate this let us examine some of the work in Selishchev´s book "Slavjanskoe naselenie v Albanii". Let us look at the capital "x" (h) which occurs in large numbers in the Macedonian toponyms found and documented to exist in Albania and which has evolved into (o) as in "Boz, Bozanik (Bozhanik), Bozovets", keeping in mind that in Bulgarian these words still contain the letter (x) as in "bxz, bxzovina". Also, the Macedonian lower case (gj) in the topo-onomastic Macedonian linguistic material in Albania has evolved into an (e) as in "Pesjak, Kozel".

                Selishchev ascertained that the names of the suffix -ec (from -gjcgj) are so frequent that they can be found in every corner of Albania, north and south as in "Ilinets, Grnets, Gradets" and many others. The change from "gj" to "e", he noted has taken place in large numbers where Macedonian words have entered the Albanian vocabulary as in "kotel, kobel, zagoren", zagoren from the word "zagorgjnx" meaning north wind.

                In relation to the above, Professor Blagoja Koneski wrote: "In the evolution from "h" to "o" and from "gj" to "e" there is one old isogloss which is confined in almost all of the Macedonian linguistic territory, except for a narrow band in the northern Macedonian speech and in some speech in Pirin Macedonia".

                In connection to the development of the vocal "l" in the "Slav speaking" population in Albania let us examine the toponym "Molchani" found recorded on a map of Northern Albania, between the Rivers Drum and Fani. Here "ol" is used in place of the vocal "l" which is specific to the Macedonian standard as opposed to the Serbian "u" (u) as in "vuk" (vuk) and the Bulgarian "xl" as in "vxlk-xt".

                In western Macedonia we find the example "Vlche iz Belgrada" (later Berat) which Selishchev copied from the religious bed-roll in the Slepchenski Monastery, a script that belongs to the 16th -17th century. In today´s western periphery of Gelichnik we can also find vocal words that contain the vocal "l".

                The micro-toponomy in Albania where the continuant "o" in the nasal form "on" appeared can be subdivided into two zones. The first, where the local speech is closely related to the speech in Western Macedonia, is in Central Albania, northwest of Debar downwards from Drim. The second zone is south of Goskova, between Moskopole and Korcha, Golovets in Berat Region and Dobrava. If the names in the north, with the aforementioned results, are part of the occurrences known in Debar Region, then those in the south, in which "on" (on) is similarly changed with "o", are part of the occurrences connected with Prespa and with the southwestern speech of Kostur Region ("roka, notre").

                The isogloss with a preserved nasal tone in Kostur Region, it appears, had widened and moved to the southeastern part of Albania, which is present in the toponyms "Dhmbras, Lhnga, Rhmbets". Similar results resulting from the evolution of "on" to "hn, hm" are found in borrowed Macedonian words in the Albanian conversational speech as in "phndar".

                The affricate "dz" characteristic in Macedonian speech, absent from the neighbouring south Slav languages, is found in Slavic place-names in Albania. One such example is the name of the village "Dzvezda" located east of Lake Malik.

                In Albania there are many documented Macedonian place-names that are very old and can be traced back to the development of the consonant system of the Macedonian language. The sound "h", for example can be traced to when it was still preserved not only in the last position, but also in between vowels as recorded in the toponyms "Suha Gora, Vlahi, Metoh".

                Indications are that the sound "h" began to drop out of Macedonian speech around the 16th century. Here is what Koneski had to say: "…we have indications that the Albanian language, due to contacts made, has been affected by western Macedonian dialects. If not consistently then to some degree "h" has changed to "f" not only at the end of words but also before and after consonants. The "h" is also lost in the beginning, between vocals and at the end of words particularly in the Tosk and south Geg speech".

                Enlargement of Macedonian linguistics in Albania confirmed by toponyms

                In addition to Selishchev calling the Macedonian population "Bulgarian" and "Slav", without national qualifiers, he has also called it Macedonian as it appears in the title and in the text of his book "Ocherki po makedonskoj dialektologii, Makedonskie kodiki 16-18 v."

                The reason for Selishchev taking this route can be found in the fact that he, at some point in time, was a member of the Bulgarian linguistic elite and a large number of his books and articles were published in Sofia as editions of the "Macedonian Institute for Learning". Also in 1930 Selishchev was a select member of the Bulgarian Academy for Learning.

                Selishchev´s book "Slavjanskoe naselenie v Albanii", mentioned earlier, first appeared in Sofia in 1931. The book is a result of serious linguistic work done in the analysis of the dialects and toponyms found within the borders of present day Albania. Another important aspect of this book, and of Selishchev´s work in general, is that he has successfully documented these linguistic characteristics and, more importantly, these place-names with archaic Macedonian origins.

                In his unearthing of facts and an abundance of materials, Selishchev has given us a picture of the political, cultural, societal and ethnic attitudes in Albania, suggesting that the Macedonian ethnic element has spread from Kostur to Ohrid and along the flow of the rivers Bistritsa, Vojusi, Semeni and Shkumbi. To the north the Macedonian migration was only stopped by the presence of the inaccessible Chermenika Mountain Massif.

                We can confirm this by the large number of "Slavonisms" found in the topographical nomenclature of Albania, some as found on a map of the region. If we examine the valley of the River "Vojusi" for example, we find place names such as "Belitsa, Zagon, Mogila, Izvori, Koachi, Gradishte, Tserkovina, Sushitsa, Vari-bob" which are all of Macedonian origin. It is interesting to note that during one of my visits to Albania, as a guest of the University of Tirana, I came across these toponyms marked on a list as "Places of archeological interest". If we continue with our examination, we will find more Macedonian names in the valley of the River "Osum", names such as "Razdol, Voditsa, Treska, Osoja, Gradets, Korita, Sirak, Vrtopi, Goritsa, Rudine" and many others.

                A second spread of the Macedonians can be found in the Tsrn Drum, in the northern part of central Albania, following the River "Mati". Even though there was not much to find here, according to Selishchev, there were footprints of a Macedonian presence left behind by the many Macedonian place names such as "Sushtsa, Goritsa, Gradets, Podgoritsa, Krstets, Sopoti, Proseka, Svetigrad, Bozhitsa" and others.

                There was even a Macedonian presence as far as the seashores of the southern Albanian coast as confirmed by the following toponyms: "Poljana, Ramets, Sushitsa, Voditsa, Peshchera, Radostina, Rupana, Kamnitsa, Zhabjak, Rogozhina" and others.

                Pull of the Macedonian settlement in the east

                The Ottoman occupation of Albania came with great violence which brought serious changes to the region; the most significant being the fast and widespread Islamization of the population. This difficult condition caused a great deal of hardship and many Macedonian families then living in central Albania relocated east to Macedonia and settled in the Gorni Polog, Debar, Prespa, Ohrid and Bitola Regions. The most prevalent being Debar Region where many of the descendents of the first settlers still live to this day. One such example would be the village Rosoki.

                According to Selishchev many of these families, until some time ago, maintained contact with their relations in Albania.

                The Macedonians who remained in Albania endured terrible conditions and, under pressure, slowly became Albanized. Regarding the motives for the Albanization, Selishchev explains that the advantage of an Albanian over a Macedonian, particularly regarding religion, was nurtured by the cohesion of the Albanian tribal group which gave voice to social life. The children born under these circumstances, it is understood, learn the mother tongue of the dominant group thus forcing the Macedonians to melt with the Albanians. In other words, the more political and social pressure put on the Macedonians the more likely they were to speak Albanian thus suppressing their own language.

                According to Selishchev, as he explains in the latest edition of his book "Slavjanskoe naselenie v Albanii", Albanian expansion to the east was most vigorous during the 14th and 15th centuries. These were violent and turbulent times as Albanians spread outwards to other neighbourhoods. As they widened their movements to the east and to the north the Albanians put pressure on the Slav speaking populations causing turbulence and destruction. This expansion, which began in the 14th century, subsided towards the end of the 17th century but did not end until the 18th and 19th centuries.

                The weak Turkish governments, self appointed Albanian Pashas, weak economic base in the mountainous settlements, ravages of war and running from bloody cleansing were all factors which motivated migration and the settlement of Albanians in Macedonia and Old Serbia. The second half of the 19th century brought even greater hardships particularly after the appearance of the various foreign Churches to the region with their reciprocal religious collisions. This immense pressure gave birth to the awakening of the Raja´s national consciousness and along with it came foreign adventure at the expense of Turkey´s weakened state.

                Push of the Albanian element towards Western Macedonia

                As the Macedonian population slowly migrated eastward, particularly in the second half of the 19th century, more Albanians came to Western Macedonia to Ohrid, Debar, Polog and Skopje Regions. During the period that followed certain circles of Albanian city dwellers got the idea of creating an autonomous Albania. Looking into the possibility of serving their own interests, a certain number of representatives and agents of the Austrian, French, Italian and other Governments, according to Selishchev, openly supported the idea of an autonomous Albania.

                These Albanian yearnings found a strong expression in the "Albanian League" founded in 1878 (-1881), which not only had political meaning in the thought of establishing conditions for autonomy, but it put in place a mission to influence a wider audience in the ethnic awakening of the Albanians.

                The desired autonomy was for a Greater Albania extending from northern to southern Albania and enveloping Epirus, Old (South) Serbia and parts of Macedonia down to Voden to the south, with Ohrid or Bitola as its capital.

                Fearful of the negative consequences from such an Albanian desire for a Greater Albania, Russian Consul in Prizren I. Jastrebov, in an extensive report dated July 5th, 1879, among other things said: "as long as the Albanian League and the Prizren Committee are given the means to realize their appetites a great injustice will be done to the Slav world. Then Montenegro will need to cease to dream because its border will only extend to Drim; Serbia will need to excuse itself from Old Serbia, Prizren, Dechani, Ipek, Kachanik, Prishtina and all of Kosovo Pole will become part of Albania. Similarly Macedonia too must then be deprived of a large part of its western settlements on behalf of the aforementioned Albanian princedom".


                The demographic boom of the Albanian population in Macedonia can best be illustrated by examining the most current census conducted by the Republic of Macedonia and comparing it to the results of the census conducted in 1912-1913 later published in Paris in 1920.

                Here is a sample of what the Albanian numbers looked like in 1912-1913. Polog, covering the Tetovo and Gostivar Regions, registered 43,230 Albanians, Debar Region registered 33,375, Bitola Region registered 14,400 and Skopje Region registered 13,240 Albanians. (Selishchev quoting J. Ivanov)

                Looking to support their own confirmation "that there are no Macedonian settlements in Western Macedonia", Albanians are working hard to slowly Albanize the Macedonian population. Here is what Selishchev has to say: "Documented data shows that some places in Western Macedonia became Albanian in the 19th century, even in the last decades of the century in question. This kind of confirmation can be found, for example, in the religious bed-rolls in the Jovan Bigorski Monastery in Debar. The bed-rolls here are filled with names of patrons who donated to the Monastery dating back to the end of the 18th and to the start of the 19th century. These patrons were residents of the many villages in the Debar Region. Even though many were Muslims and considered to be Albanians, they were registered in the bed-rolls with Macedonian names such as "Bogoja, Volche, Ognen, Beztsena, Slavka, Bilka, Tsveta" and others.

                Patrons such as these can also be found in Western Debar Region. For example in the village Halajbegovtsi we find registered the names "Milosh, Petro, Sorbin, Giorgio, Neveno". In the village Blato we find "Bozho" and others. Similar situations exist in the villages Konjari and Balantsi in the south part of Debar Region. Patrons named "Jadro, Bogdan, Volkush, Torpko" and others also existed in Golo Brdo in the village Bilishta. These villages are now all considered to be Albanian".

                In the village Gorna Reka, which today is considered an Abanian village, Selishchev claims that earlier in time this was a Macedonian settlement. According to his research he found a large number of familiar Macedonian names with "-ov" (-ev) endings in "today´s Albanian" population.

                Selishchev says that "Bilbilevh, Lazarevh, Ukovh" are signatures of people from 40 to 50 years ago, from the 19th century. For example familiar names such as "Krasovit, Tomovit" belong to people who resided in the village Krakoritsa. The formative "-t" here is an element representative of the majority in the Albanian language. In the village Brodets, an Albanian settlement, exist familiar names registered with the suffix "ovtsi (-evtsi)" such as "Kuzovtsi, Popovtsi, Ivanovtsi". We would like to remind the reader that this is information discovered by Selishchev himself while doing his research in Macedonia.

                Apart from the aforementioned information discovered in the Jovan Bigorski Monastery, Selishchev also notes other written sources he cited according to which "… in the last 30 to 50 years of the 19th century, the Macedonian language was spoken in Gorna Reka. For example, in the contributor´s list registering those who materially supported the publishing of Kiril Pejchinovikj´s (1831) book "Uteshenie greshnim" he mentions Gorna Reka residents from the villages Vrben, Grekane, Sentse and Belichitsa.

                Basing his information on written documents that he discovered, from a historical point of view, Selishchev has noted many occurrences of Macedonian place-names existing in the past. Even though today these place-names cannot be found either because some of the villages were destroyed or abandoned or because they were renamed and given Albanian names, however, it is a documented fact that these place-names did exist in the past in abundance.

                According to 13th century documents (1273), Carlo the First donated the village Zuadigoriza (St. Goritsa) to Sevastocrat P. Gropa in Devolskiot Kraj. In 1368 on an object given to the residents of Dobrovets the toponym "Shiroki Brod" located near "Lesh" is mentioned.

                In comparison to the abundance of Macedonian place-names that existed all throughout Albania, there were relatively very few Albanian ones. According to Selishchev, among the 40 or so Macedonian place names that existed, only 4 were of Albanian origin. In total, Selishchev found over 1,200 place-names with Macedonian roots in Albania.

                Here we need to emphasize that Albanian place-names can also be found in places which originally had Macedonian names and in time these names were either translated to Albanian equivalents or evolved into Albanized names. For example the Macedonian place-name "Chljrna Gora" was changed to the Albanian "Mali i zi", the Macedonian name of the mountain "Suha Gora" was changed to "Mali i vat" and the Macedonian name "Brodetslj" was changed to the Albanian "Vau".

                Macedonian words used by the Albanians

                According to T. Smiljanikj, the villages that in the past were Macedonian still contain a large number of Macedonian lexemes that exist to this day. These lexemes belong to the business and domestic economy existing in these villages. Putting it another way, there are Macedonian words associated with the house, dress, family relations, etc., that are still used by the Albanians today. Here are some examples;

                "grazhd" ´space for livestock´,

                "doma, skrivnica" ´auxiliary space for leaving things´,

                "gati" ´cover of house´ (Selishchev noted that the formative "i" represents an element of the member morpheme in the Albanian language),

                "strojnik" 'svat' – ´he who mediates for those involved in a wedding´,

                "kolach, gajnik" ´rope for holding up pants´,

                "kozhuf; rogozina" ´a cover laid on the floor, made of reeds´, "trem" (trem) ´roofed part in front of the house´,

                "brana" ´farm implement for dragging over ploughed soil´, (in Russian "borona" (borona)),

                "zavor" ´piece of wood with which the door is propped during the night´

                In these names preserved are -kor, vor-, vr- ("saveno" ´closed´), in time their root widened to incorporate the formative "-t-" from the prefix, "zatvori" and in Bulgarian "zavorka". No (-t-).

                Here we have the word "cheren" with a double meaning;

                1. ´knife handle´,

                2. ´a chain that hangs in the chimney on which a kettle of water is hung´, Russian "cheren", "cherenok".

                In addition to what has been presented above, there are also Macedonian suffixes present in the Albanian language. Some of these are "-nik, -ets, -itsa, -ka, -ishte" as in;

                "fisnik" ´nobleman´ (fis = family, kin),

                "bes-nik, bes{tar" (bes-nik, besshtar) ´fiancé, he who gave word´,

                "rap-iste" ´a place with tall trees, sycamore´ (´sycamore´, plane tree) and many others

                It is understood that the largest number of borrowed words in one or the other language happened during a period when both languages existed simultaneously. That is when the population was using both languages at the same time and the speakers were unable to hold both languages in check (language interference).

                First records of contact between the Macedonian and Albanian populations

                Leaving aside how this enormous Albanian population growth was achieved in Macedonia in such a relatively short span of time, let us look at the facts of when, where and how the Macedonians came into contact with the Albanians.

                According to uncovered information, it is estimated that the Macedonians first came into contact with the Albanians in today´s Albania and northern Macedonia during the 11th to the 13th centuries. This is confirmed on a crucible from King Militin, dated around 1299-1300, on which is written: "And everyone who will attend the festival (speaking about the festival held in November, in the St. George Monastery, close to Skopje), be it Greek, be it Bulgarian, or Serbian, Latin, Arbanasin or Vlah, is obliged to give lawful duty (tax) the same as those who give in Tetovo, in Grachanitsa and in all other churches".

                In a document from the 14th century there is also mention of Albanians and Vlachs in the Logor locality. The document mentions that Stefan and Dushan of the Tetovo Monastery donated the woodlands and grazing lands in Novi Dol. In that, the Church donors emphasized that the donation is not to be used by those responsible for the mountainous grazing land, "not Arbanasin, not Vlahs". Regarding this, Selishchev notes: "truly the name "Albano-(num) or Arbanon(-um)" mentioned is found deep in antiquity (at Ptolemai, Georg. 3/13) but after that in the flow of many centuries that name (Arbanon-um) is not again mentioned, even though important anecdotes are heard in the territory of Albania". However, adds Selishchev: "The ancient ´Albanon´ can´t unconditionally affirm that there lived the ancestors of today´s Albanians because the names with "Alb- (Albion, Alba)" are widespread in Europe."

                Subjective review of the Macedonian names in Albania

                The Macedonian place-names that Selishchev discovered during his studies, he organized in subjective groups as follows;

                names in accordance with the general views of regions: "Goritsa", a toponym readily found, present in many places and from it derived through Greek and Turkish variations is the name "Korcha", as well as the toponyms: "Chuka, Breg, Proseka".

                names of places based on things: "Podbregja, Podgora, Podgorica, Zagorjani".

                names of hollows found in maps: "Peshchera, Peshter, Dupjak, Korito".

                names according to form as seen from the outside:

                "Ostravitsa" ´place with hard rocks´,

                "Pleshevitsa" ´flat part of a hill´,

                "Shtrbets" ´toothless´ (shtrb means without teeth),

                "Krstets" ´a place looking like a cross´,

                "Glavenitsa" (glava meant head),

                "Tupets", "tup" ´– of sharp´.

                names according to geological composition:

                "Bigor" ´a place with limestone´,

                "Kamenik, Kamjani" ´a place abundant in rock´,

                "Plocha" ´flat rock´.

                names of level places, plains: "Po(l)jani" (close to which are the ruins of the ancient city "Apollonia". It is interesting to ask the question by what means did the "Slav speakers" connect their word Poljani with Apollonia? "Poljana" (meadow); "Dolina, Livada, Dolanets, Lozhani".

                names which by some means are connected with the concept of ´water´: "Voditsa, Vodovisti, Blatsa, Blache, Mokra, Mochurishte, Mochani, Slatina, Izvori, Paroja" ´places where water is found when it rains´.

                names of places given in accordance with the name of a neighbouring river: "Zadrina" ´the left side of the down flow of the Drum River´, Zarech ´place behind the river´.

                names of places according to the position of the sun: "Senishte, Senichani" ´places in which the sun hardly shines´, whereas "Osoja" means the opposite, a place exposed to the sun: "Prisojani" .

                names in accordance with the flora:

                "Buk, Bukanik, Bushko Pole" ´oak forest´,

                "Borovjan, Borich, Borova" ´a pine tree forest´,

                "smola" ´sap´ (sap that is collected from the pine tree),

                names derived from various trees:

                "Smolenik, Smolika; Tserova, Tsertska" (derived from the name "tser" meaning oak),

                "Koshtan, Kostenja" (from kosten meaning chestnut),

                "Divjak" ´tree with wild fruit´,

                "Bresnik, Breshtani" ´elm tree´,

                "Topolovo, Topoljtsa" (from "topola", poplar tree),

                "Vrben, Golo Vrbjani" (from "vrba", willow tree).

                names derived in accordance with names from the animal world: "Zhabjak, Zhabokika, Rakovets, Volkovija".

                names obtained according to colours: "Galishte" ´mountainous locality´. "Galitsa, Galichitsa" (according to Selishchev "gal" means "tsrn" (black)),

                "Belitsa, Beleva" (rivers – the name is derived from the colour of the water) ("bel" means white),

                "Morava" (name of a river named for the bluish colour of its water),

                "chernava" (name of a river named for its blackish water).

                A mountainous locality was named "Chermenika", according to Selishchev, because of the red rocks present there. Similarly a village was named "Cherveni" because of the red rock also present in its locality.

                Archaisms preserved in place names

                As we have stated earlier, toponyms are petrified names, names preserved by everyday use over long periods of time passed on from generation to generation in their exact form.

                This is important for us to understand because by examining such names, particularly of peripheries, we can come to an understanding of the origins of the people who first named them.

                In the toponyms documented in Albania by Selishchev we find a large number of archaisms which are not common appellative words and are rarely used today. Examples of such words are "Brod, Brodets" ´shallow place in a river, perfect for crossing´ stsl. "brodlj", sp. Rus. "bredu" ´slow moving´; the old word "brdo" in the appellative lexicon is frequently interchanged with the word "rid'" (rid) (hill), which is preserved in the toponymic lexicon.

                According to Selishchev "Brditsa, Brzhdan, Stradobrda", stsl. "brljdo", Ukr. "berdo" means ´a slope on a hill´. The toponym "Mogila" means ´an elevated place´ as in "Bele Mogile". In Russian the word Mogila is associated with a ´grave´.

                The archaic word "rupa" which today is rarely heard in everyday language, squeezed out of the word "dupka" (hole), exists today as a toponym in Albanian place names such as "Rupani", sp. slov. "rupa" ´hole in which the water of a stream disappears´.

                The archaic word "sad" which means ´garden, orchard´ Selishchev registered in the toponym "Sadovitsa" sp. Rus. "sad" meaning ´a field planted with fruit trees, flowers´.

                The toponyms "Helm, Helmitsa" (height, hill) support the Old Slav word "hlljmlj" which is no longer in use in everyday language.

                Selishchev has also discovered Macedonian toponyms which have Turkish origins. For example the hill named "Shimshir" (bot. "Budzhus" comes from the Turkish word "shemshir" ´name of a plant´.

                The name of the village "Serdari" comes from the Turkish word "serdar" meaning "chief or head".

                The name "Gora Top" (where "gora" is Macedonian meaning mountain or forest and "top" is Turkish meaning clump or ball) has a dual name component derived from both Macedonian and Turkish. These examples confirm that Macedonians existed in Albania for a long time before and after the establishment of Turkish rule.

                Influence of Macedonian on the Albanian language

                Before examining the Macedonian influence on the Albanian language, let us look at the Albanian influence on the Macedonian language.

                Outside of the usual borrowing of lexemes, which shows strong contact between the two groups, Seleshchev has uncovered influence in the phonetics in the Macedonian village Radozhda, located on the western slope of Lake Ohrid. Here in place of the Old Slavonic voice "on" (on) and other such occurrences we find the use of the wide "e" used as "a" in specific pronunciation. This, according to Selishchev, is an articulated sound of Albanian speech specific to Albasan Region. According to Selishchev, this is not an isolated incident present only in the western part of Ohrid Region but there may be other places and other interpretations. It is understandable that the largest number of borrowed words in one or the other language have invaded the languages during the period when both languages were simultaneously spoken by the population.

                Apart from the phonetics noted as borrowings at a morphologic level, namely in Macedonian toponyms which Selishchev mentions he found in Albania, there are also dual member names such as "Bele Mogile" in which the endings "-e (< -h)" are protected, derived from the soft noun change of the female gender. This kind of example where the "–e" ending in the female gender noun appears can be found in Debar Region in the northern and southwestern speech particularly in the village Zherovnitsa. The appearance in northern speech can be explained as a common shared trait between the Albanians and neighbouring Serbians. Its use in the dialect in Zherovnitsa is mainly due to contact made with speech in Prizran Region. As for its use in the southwest, as well as in the micro topo-onomastic material in Albania, its influence is disconnected. These dialects are "…undoubtedly influenced by the Albanian and Aromanian populations, in which in the multitude of adjectives and pronouns we find many examples of forms for the female and male gender. The morphed "e" is a symbol for the female gender. In a similar way it is possible that the morphism "-i" overpowers from its firm use which remained a symbol for the male gender" (according to Blazhe Koneski).

                By Dr. Kosta Peev

                Translated and edited by Risto Stefov

                [email protected]

                January 10, 2010



                Last edited by Dimko-piperkata; 05-04-2010, 03:03 AM.
                1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
                2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #83
                  Interesting article and a good read, thanks Dimko.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Daskalot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 4345

                    #84
                    Very interesting indeed, I have a map somewhere on my PC of all Slavic placenames in Albania. I shall try and find it.
                    Macedonian Truth Organisation

                    Comment

                    • Bratot
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2855

                      #85
                      Map made by Selishev 1931

                      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                      Comment

                      • Bratot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2855

                        #86
                        The city of Skadar ( Skodra) pointed as Macedonian place:




                        Еве еден пример на стара скадарска книга "Тримесник", печатана во Скадар, во 1563 г. од тамошниот владика г. Стефан, со следнава содржина:
                        „ја свршив оваа Божја книга во летото Христово 1563, месец декември, на К.Д., во местата македонски, во родниот град Скадар...“ (Бугарски државен архив, ЦВА, ф. 40. оп. II, а.е. 935, л. 57-58).
                        The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                        Comment

                        • Bratot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2855

                          #87
                          За градот Девол (денес Корча и целата област околу Корча) вели дека е град на Македонци, со голема тврдина -φάνουσι περί Άχρίδαν τε και Δεάβολιν. Φρούρια ταύτα Μακεδονίας , πολλήν παρασχόμενα την άσφάλειαν τοις χρωμένοις αύτος (Gregorae. I, 72-73; ГИБИ, XI, 132 ).
                          Го посетил и македонскиот град Белград (денеска Берат), каде живееле Македонци и биле под јуриздикција на Охридската Архиепископија - Βελλεγράδων (Belgratos) και της άλλης Μακεδονίας (Gregorae 1,247; ГИБИ, XI, 143).


                          За прв пат декларирање како Македонци по род е забележано е во записите на Охридската Архиепископија од 13 век во тогашното Епирско Деспотство, што не значи дека и порано немало декларирање македонска националност. Тука имаме и запис од Иван Иерекар „по род Македонец“од селото Власто во тогашното Епирско Деспотство (J. Pitra, Analecta sacra et classica specilegio Solesmensi parta, t. VI Juris ecclesiastici graecorum selecta paralipomena. Parissis et Romae 1891, col. 315).

                          Во 1891 г., католичкиот Kардинал Ј. Питра објавил 155 документи од Охридската Архиепископија, кога била дел од Епирската држава, од времето на Архиепископот Димитриј Хоматиjан (1216-1235), каде што Македонците се спомнати преку 50 пати и се забележува дека во областа Епир главно живееле Македонци кои се изјаснувале по народност како Македонци „То де генос Елкон ек Македонон“ (Д. Ангелов, Принос к'м народосните и поземлени отношенја в Македонија стр. 11-12 et.seq..; 43).
                          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #88
                            It was indeed an interesting read.
                            But it must be said, we invite double standards when we rely on names in church registers as indicators of ethnicity. We know the Greeks have tried to do this with patriarchate registers.

                            We forget how powerful the Macedonian Church was once upon a time.

                            Truthfully, I doubt the Macedonian church would try the same tactics as the Greek church (i.e. owning the most souls) but anything is possible.

                            Notwithstanding this, the Albanians would not be happy with the historic and realistic picture painted by this article.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Daskalot
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 4345

                              #89
                              Thank you Bratot, it was those maps I was looking for!

                              The church book evidence is one thing and a completely other is the toponyms which are harder to refute.
                              Macedonian Truth Organisation

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                #90
                                Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                                The church book evidence is one thing and a completely other is the toponyms which are harder to refute.
                                Totally agree.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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