Originally posted by Pelister
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The Ancient Macedonian Language
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In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Here is an interesting example with regard to one of the PIE words for a 'molar' or 'tooth', which is ǵómbho.
Later Satem examples include variants such as jambha (Sanskrit), žambas (Lithuanian), zǫbŭ (Old Macedonian/Church Slavonic); but also the more archaic zamb (Macedonian/Kostur Dialect). All of these show evidence of the PIE aspirated consonant bh becoming a voiced stop b, which was mentioned earlier as a common feature between the Paleo-Balkan and Balto-Slavic linguistic groups. There is also dhëmb (Albanian), which belongs to the Satem group but has developed a sound at the beginning of the word which is unlike others in either group.
Centum examples of this word can include gomphos (Anc. Attic) and keme (Tocharian), but also kamb (Germanic), which has close proximity to komb (Anc. Maced.). Both Germanic and ancient Macedonian also show the voiced stop consonant b, as the Satem group.
Due to a lack of more elaborate surviving texts and inscriptions, it is difficult to determine the extent of influence on ancient Macedonian from foreign (non-Satem) sources. The above example may merely imply stronger than usual Centum reflexes in a Satem tongue, as can also be found in Balto-Slavic languages. For example, in modern Macedonian the word for 'rock' is kamen, in Lithuanian it is akmuo, both showing Centum influence, deriving from PIE heḱmōn. However, in other Satem languages the k is substituted for an s, so in Sanskrit it is asma, in Thracian it is asam, and even in Pelasgian it is asám(inthos).In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Great work SoM, very interesting.
I am still very much convinced that little research has been done in this area and we are yet to fully appreciate the historical significance of the entire Balkan region.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Plenty of research has been done, but little of that research has been consolidated to support such a view because of the long-harboured western fiction of a Slavic 'migration'. However, I will soon change that, so we can all have a clearer picture of the circumstances, developments and results of linguistic evolution that ultimately lead to the formation of the Macedonian tongue as we know it today.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Here is something i always wandered how why and where.
The Letter or sound "a" in Macedonian at the end of anything associated with a Female.
Example of some Ancient names from the begining of this thread,
Cleopatra
Cassandra
Berenika
Adena
Batina
Colatina
Cursulavia
Dussona
Drigissa
Madena
etc etc.
If we look at some modern names we have the same thing happening,
Klementina
Magdalena
Elena
Mara
Maja
Katerina
etc etc.
On a side note, some of these names Greeks replace the "a" with "i" and would have it as,
Magdeleni
Eleni
Katerini
And good old Dora used to be known to me as Ms "Bakoyanis" now more commonly as "Bakoyani" minus the "s"
(mabe to sound more Italian. Like some say, Greeks invented sex, Italians corrected it by doing it with the opposite sex)
Macedonians also tend to name woman after their husbands but only adding this "a" at the end of it. (not to mention there surnames)
Example,
Icojca
Stefojca
Pecojca
Donejca
Vasilica
etc etc.
We even find female animals ending with "a"
such as,
Matorica
Kvachka
and so on.
Now i'm not sure if any other Race, or language does this. Like i said, its just something i always wandered and if there is some sort of explanation. I am not claiming anything because this is way out of my league.
But if it is a Macedonian thing which is possibly from Ancient times, i Wander if Greek cities names were Macedonian?
Such as,
Athina
Corinthia (this might not be a common way of saying it)
Solonika (Greeks call Thessaloniki)
Just to name a few.Last edited by Bill77; 08-17-2010, 08:24 AM.http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostHM,
The name Athanasios comes from the Hellenic word 'athanatos' (immortal), which ultimately derives from 'thanatos' (death). This name became widespread as a result of Christianity, which is probably where later Macedonian versions appear as Atanas, Tanase, Nase, etc.
Although palatalization can assist in explaining some likely cognates, I think there is another characteristic that features as the main factor in examples such as 'negotino'. Over time, Macedonian seems to have developed a feature of 'letter re-arrangement'. For example, from Greek to Macedonian, there is Antigonea -> Negotino, and Megalo -> Golemo, within Macedonian dialects there is Kade -> Deka. The definitive article suffix may also result from this feature, if examples such as the following are accepted: To dete -> Deteto.
While ago,at some of our forums,when we were discussed origin of name of Bogdan , Bratot has pointed some links with explanations that
Bogdan originated from Theodore.
Precisely
old Russ. spelling of proper n. Feodor (Theodore).
Od staroslovenski (makedonski):
Имя Богдан пришло из старославянского языка, где появилось от греческого имени; Богдан означает - данный Богом
Fediuk, form of Fedka, dim. of Fedor old Russ. spelling of proper n. Feodor (Theodore) .Patr. Fedorowicz .
Heinrich Walter Guggenheimer,Eva H. Guggenheimer"Jewish family names and their origins: an etymological dictionary " [Hoboken, N.J.] : Ktav Pub. House, 1992. page... 236
Origin of the word Bogdan according to letter changes researches is out of name of
Macedon
Македон
because ,
M-> B
K->G
MaiKe
BaiGe
BaGa
Bog
while for name of Theodorus
Theodorus =Teos-God + dorus~gift
My opinion is that Theόs has it's root at Deus ,and Deus or f. *Deusa has its possible origin in our word Dusa-Душа standing for Soul
At least this 'thanatos' - 'athanatos' should be checked out .Last edited by Homer MakeDonski; 08-18-2010, 11:41 AM.
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Originally posted by Homer MakeDonskiOrigin of the word Bogdan according to letter changes researches is out of name of
Macedon
Македон
because ,
M-> B
K->G
MaiKe
BaiGe
BaGa
Bog
My opinion is that Theόs has it's root at Deus ,and Deus or f. *Deusa has its possible origin in our word Dusa-Душа standing for Soul
At least this 'thanatos' - 'athanatos' should be checked outIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Does anyone know if there is a dictionary compiled on ancient macedonian words & where can one get it???
The word Crete kriet macedonian to hide,
cosmos cos- winding,most- bridge,
the word History is macedonian
Also well known professor Tasko Belcevski said that the english language has 2500 words with roots to the macedonian language!"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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Originally posted by George S. View PostDoes anyone know if there is a dictionary compiled on ancient macedonian words & where can one get it???
Originally posted by George S. View PostThe word Crete kriet macedonian to hide,
cosmos cos- winding,most- bridge,
the word History is macedonian
Cosmos:http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none
History:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History#Etymology
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soulLast edited by thessalo-niki; 08-20-2010, 03:33 PM.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostHomer, Not sure about m -> b, but k -> g is not an impossible sound change, however, your assertion can only gain acceptance if you produce other examples of words which share the same features in the same manner. Do you have anything in parallel to corroborate?
Parallel in Macedonian is
Мрмори inpf.->Брбори,мрмориш->брбориш,мрморење->брборење ,
мрморковци->брборковци
Мекање n *Бекање –> Блекање -> Блеење ..’’..1
mrmori -non understandable lower speech or something like
brbori -non understandable louder speech or something like
Btw from here we have got
barbari- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners.( and question why used to be the foreigner one )
This M-B changes can be well noted at Greek language
Bananas = Μπανανασ
What will say
that
MP=B
Mp dissonant of M
M->Mp->*mB->B
Over
K-G-changes into Macedonian
VeliK den
VeliGden -Istar
or
kukuriKu
KukuriGu
Check it out, I assure you they mean what I have stated.
________________
Ref:
1-Тодор Димитровски,Благоја Корубин,Трајко Стаматоски“Речник на македонскиот јазик со српско-хрватски толкувања’’,Скопје 1961…..стр.424-425.
more at
It is only at Macedonian ..sorryLast edited by Homer MakeDonski; 08-20-2010, 07:06 PM.
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Originally posted by George S. View PostDoes anyone know if there is a dictionary compiled on ancient macedonian words & where can one get it???
The word Crete kriet macedonian to hide,
cosmos cos- winding,most- bridge,
the word History is macedonian
Also well known professor Tasko Belcevski said that the english language has 2500 words with roots to the macedonian language!
Originally posted by Homer MakeDonskiParallel in Macedonian is
Мрмори inpf.->Брбори,мрмориш->брбориш,мрморење->брборење ,
мрморковци->брборковци
Мекање n *Бекање –> Блекање -> Блеење
I will do, they can mean what ever they likeIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
HM, both of the words you produced in the m -> b example above are modern words. Can you show me a parallel with an ancient (m) -> modern (b), as per your initial example of mak -> bag ? Same thing with the k -> g example, you need to provide an ancient (k) -> modern (g) parallel.
As for common m->b change I still have not got any ex. in our ancient times mother tongue.Thus because I have not found any recorded sources,but only guess suggestion.Example I am providing is from old so called Greeks dialects
So,here is an example of indirect comparability
Changes of μ, esp. in dialects:
2. into β,
as μεμβράς ,βεμβράς; βροτός, Aeol. μορτός ( v.άμβροτος fin.) and άβροτάξομεν for (from άμαρτάνω) ; μολєίν aor. of. βλώσκω ; κυβєρνήτης , Aeol. κυμєρνήτης ...1
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Ref.
1-Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott “Greek-English Lexicon” ,London,1896… стр.953Last edited by Homer MakeDonski; 08-22-2010, 08:36 AM.
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Guess suggestion I am reading here
нu како мо'жеть ся писати добрjь,гръчьскыми писмены. . Б~Ъ*,
But,how well you could write words standing for God at... 2
My guesses are:
If we need new letter for writing word Bog ,than what letters were in previous using ?
Were they so called Greek?
If they were than writing of that word should be standing as *MΠoΓ something look like.
Why we do not have any info. about it ?
Ref:
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note : *-not well letter's fond
2-F.Буслаевымъ. М"Историческая христоматiя Церковно-Славянскаго и Древне-Русскаго языковъ"въ Университетской типографiи, 1861. Стлб.Из сочинения черноризца Храбра <((>О писменехь<))>. По изданiю
Калайдовича со списка 1348 г., въ Iоан. Екс. Болг. 1824 г.
425<->428.Last edited by Homer MakeDonski; 08-22-2010, 07:53 AM.
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change of k-g
I. κ is near akin to γ,χ.,differing only in its harder pronunciation; hence, the older Att. changed χνόος γναπτω ρευχω,into κνοος κναπτω : so in Ion. χιτων became κιθων ,βεχομαι βεκομαι,βατραχος βατρακος,χυτρα κυθρη,etc.; so γονυ (cf. προχνυ) is akin to our knee; cf.Lob.P.HRYN.173, 307. ….3
From here we can see that at word γναπτω κναπτω there is ancient k-g change records ,as well noted at previouses pages at the same lexicon ,given under the letter Γ
as ….
IV.also with κ, γναπτω κναπτω ....4
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Ref:
3- George Liddell and Robert Scott “Greek-English Lexicon” ,London,1896… page.750
4- George Liddell and Robert Scott “Greek-English Lexicon” ,London,1896… page.306Last edited by Homer MakeDonski; 08-22-2010, 08:03 AM.
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