Soros, NGOs and Western/foreign meddling in Macedonia

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  • Rogi
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2343

    #46
    This figure of 300k is a gross understatement.

    The capital for the purchase and founding of the major newspapers et al, which together cover well over 75% of the media in Macedonia, came from from Soros and related groups.

    Though, to add to Indigen's point, it is also quite hypocritical for VMRO-DPMNE to be making thse claims, when they have spent substantial amounts buying media air-time to promote themselves and then there's of course Latas who publishes whatever opinion the Gov asks him to have.

    But of course, in a comparison of evils, the Sorosoids carry the most despicable anti-Macedonian agenda and this information does need to come out, regardless of who releases their dossiers first.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #47
      Originally posted by OziMak View Post
      Indigen you are an idiot. According to you everyone is a traitor or a apologist unless they exactly agree with everything you say.
      OM, I find myself agreeing with much of what Indigen has to say. Which must make me an idiot as well. What you fail to realise is that many of the conclusions that Indigen has made on matters of ideology are based on extremely sound principles based on inalienable rights.

      Perhaps you should measure actions of people against the Macedonian Cause. If they fail any of the fundamental concepts there, then they are wrong. Plain and simple.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Prolet
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 5241

        #48
        Rogi, You can spend billions of dollars on advertising your political party aswell as giving informative news about what people need to do to get certain things done, how to get an id card,passport,government subsidies,how to enroll their kids to schools etc I would love to see similar SDSM Ads for them doing something good for our people and showing it on TV, we see it all the time from Labor,Liberals even the Greens. When new laws come into place they inform the public, but they dont go and hire so called experts from Slovenija and pay them hundreds of thousands of euros just so they can give them "Expert Advise" on toppling a democratically elected Government aswell as showing them how to spew vicious Anti-Macedonian propaganda, thats working against the country dont you think??

        Branko Crvenkovski with the Soros Foundation payed Slovenian experts on how to topple the Government and they got advise how to form NGO's and control them.

        One of their controlled NGO, GEM (Gragjani za Evropska Makedonija) where they are not even registered to begin with, has openly called for our country to change our name in many of their open forums.

        YouTube - ĐźŃ€ĐµŃ Đ˝Đ° ĐлекŃандар БичиклиŃки (07.11.2010)
        МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

        Comment

        • indigen
          Senior Member
          • May 2009
          • 1558

          #49

          Originally posted by OziMak View Post
          Indigen you are an idiot.
          What a boring self-important nitwit like YOU, with a propensity to spew long-winded posts filled with verbal diarrhoea, thinks of myself and those of similar political views matters very little to me! What does matter is that YOU ARE AN APOLOGIST and AN ADVOCATE FOR VASSAL ANTI-MACEDONIAN POLITICAL IDEOLOGY and the political implementation of ALL the resultant de-constructive capitulations emanating from that standpoint. I see in YOU a BOOSTER FOR "UMD" and CAPITULATIONIST IDEOLOGY/POLITICS!

          According to you everyone is a traitor or a apologist unless they exactly agree with everything you say.
          No I do not, but there are some ESSENTIAL MACEDONIAN NATIONAL INTERESTS that ANY MACEDONIAN with an iota of Macedonian patriotism in them would never ever consider giving them up or condoning those that do!

          Your self righteous indignation is old and boring. You wont even bother to discuss a differing point of view after all what’s the point of dong that if they differ from you they must be a traitor or apologist for the traitors right.
          As I told you long ago, MACEDONIANS in Australia (and the Diaspora in general) rightly CONDEMNED ALL THOSE ACTS OF TREASON AND CAPITULATION via MASS MEETINGS organised by REPRESENTATIVE MACEDONIAN COMMUNITY ORGANISATIONS at the time they occurred. I certainly do not feel out of step ideologically from the mainstream Macedonian Diaspora on any of these issues. Political hermits or newly spawned Ramkovist hatchlings (or dushmani/provocateurs) such as yourself need to face these facts.
          Last edited by indigen; 11-08-2010, 07:23 PM.

          Comment

          • fyrOM
            Banned
            • Feb 2010
            • 2180

            #50
            RTG re read Indigens post and then ask your self was the vitriol in my post due to difference in policy view or in response to a personal attack ie firstly accusing me of being an apologist for some supposed wrong…this could be discussed civilly…but MOST importantly putting me in the same level as those journalists who are virtually proven traitors and as I said should with all other traitor be branded for life and recorded in the history books so that all Macedonians forever may know their deeds. Now think of your post and I’m sure you realise the difference. That post could not have gone unanswered. Having a different point of view is one thing which can and should be discussed civilly with logic and reason.

            The point I was making or trying to was if traitors hold positions of power you cannot just grab them until you have proof. If you are in a position of power it is inevitable you will have to deal with others who are also in positions of power even if you know they are traitors eg recent news in Vest high ranking judges are in question yet by law neither the President nor the Prime Minister nor anyone else for that matter can act above the law. The government has to deal with the judiciary. If the government acted out of hand they could find themselves before another judge who could also be a traitor yet unknown. If a judge or judges are later proven to be traitors does it make the government traitors.

            We need not see every interaction between the government and others of positions of power including members in their own cabinet as absolute proof the government is also a traitor. If you dance with gnasni you are probably gnsen too but sometimes patriots dance with gnasni to catch them out be it covertly or openly as the government is doing.

            This government has done much to point towards the conclusion they are no traitors. If this is in doubt then it is a matter that can be discussed but blatant direct accusations of being a traitor cannot and should not go unanswered. Even a real f.ed up traitor would respond let alone someone who isnt.

            Comment

            • fyrOM
              Banned
              • Feb 2010
              • 2180

              #51
              Indigen patriots come in many forms but politics is by its nature a kurviska game. Don’t blame a kurva just for being one he she could be a patriot also.

              It would be wonderful if there were the enemy in that trench and you and the rest of the patriots in this trench and you could charge at each other and duke it out but as news reports are bringing to light the traitors are in the government departments and judiciary. The political sceen in RoM and else where is not that simple and kurviski games are the only way.

              Comment

              • indigen
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 1558

                #52
                Originally posted by OziMak View Post
                Indigen patriots come in many forms but politics is by its nature a kurviska game. Don’t blame a kurva just for being one he she could be a patriot also.
                Ama nashite politichki kurvi se dupeni (is se dupat) od sekogo, na sekoj nachin i vo sekoe dupche (get screwed every which way by all!)

                It would be wonderful if there were the enemy in that trench and you and the rest of the patriots in this trench and you could charge at each other and duke it out but as news reports are bringing to light the traitors are in the government departments and judiciary.
                I would have GLADLY gone in any trench if we had Macedonian patriotic leadership to STAND FIRM in SAME MOULD AS FRANJO TUDJMAN and HDZ (and Co) did for Croatia but I would NOT fight if IZRODI i PREDVANICI such as LjuBcho, Ljube, Branko, Tito P., Kiro and the like are "leading". I would like to see the lot six feet under sooner rather than later!

                The political scene in RoM and else where is not that simple and kurviski games are the only way.
                It never is simple but Slovenia and Croatia were politically mature, took a stand for their cause, bled for it and now are reaping rewards because of that whilst those with chicken hearts in Macedonia have yokes (Ramki) around their political necks.

                Comment

                • indigen
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 1558

                  #53
                  Originally posted by OziMak View Post
                  Indigen

                  How come this did not apply to the Croats, Slovenians, Armenians, Serbs and Kosovars,

                  because any of the above can say to the world f off I am x. Anybody disputing this would be labled a moron by their peers ie international community. It is a given understood fact.

                  Macedonia is not in the same position. It never was ever since the fall of Alexander…remember the slavery days…oh you know like the last near 2 and a half THOUSAND years. When you are my slave I will call you whatever the f I want and you will be my bitch and if you appose me I will kick your head in senseless before I slit your throat. That has been our lot ever since. The brave....rarely got to pass on their genes.

                  [deleted rest of long-winded post filled with CLASSIC OM verbal diarrhoea]
                  "OziMak", if ever anyone talked NONSENSE, what you stated above just has to take the crown (cake)! ))

                  Maybe the "inherited slave genes" of the Ilinden Fighters were some rare mutations that failed to get passed down to their descendants? :-)
                  Ilinden Uprising – Reports by Sydney Morning Herald, 1903
                  THE REBELLION IN MACEDONIA – Excerpts from telegrams:

                  INSURGENT POSITION STORMED, FLIGHT BEFORE ARTILLERY FIRE
                  LONDON, Aug. 31.
                  Advices which have been received at Salonika state that Servet Pasha, with six battalions, stormed a position held by 3000 Macedonians at Smilevo. 1000 Macedonians were killed, and the remaineder fled before the artillery fire of the Turks.
                  TWENTY THOUSAND INSURGENTS.
                  ----
                  WELL-ARMED, MONEY PLENTIFUL.
                  ----
                  London, Aug. 9.

                  Ten thousand insurgents, in four camps, are operating
                  in the neighbourhood of Monastir [Bitola], and 10,000
                  around Kastoria [Kostur], which is situated 36 miles
                  to the south of Monastir [Bitola].
                  The insurgents are
                  reported to be well armed and to have plenty of money.

                  Anticipating the arranged rising by three weeks, the
                  insurgents caught the Turks napping.

                  -------------

                  OM, I suggest you click on my signature file below and read carefully the info there and, if you have any common sense, you should be able to deduce why TODAY Macedonians have a weak (very low level) fighting spirit.
                  Last edited by indigen; 11-08-2010, 09:59 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Ozimak
                    We need not see every interaction between the government and others of positions of power including members in their own cabinet as absolute proof the government is also a traitor. If you dance with gnasni you are probably gnsen too but sometimes patriots dance with gnasni to catch them out be it covertly or openly as the government is doing.
                    This sounds like you are making a case that we keep people where they are, and that we keep things the way they are.

                    The fact that the government has our historical, political and legal identity on the negotiating table with a State that wants us destroyed, should be all the evidence anyone needs that the Gruevski government are selling us out every day this goes on. It is also evidence that they are out of their depth, misguided and deluded (the insanity meter only goes up from here, if they think that exposing us, and putting our political existence into political play is the 'only path' (as UMD once put it) to club membership. We never really needed to be part of the E.U in the first place. Its just not that important.

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8531

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                      It is also evidence that they are out of their depth, misguided and deluded (the insanity meter only goes up from here, if they think that exposing us, and putting our political existence into political play is the 'only path' (as UMD once put it) to club membership.
                      Most of them are out of their depth, misguided or deluded, though some are even worse - they are traitors, selling us out for their own personal career ambitions, or at least perceived gain. The hard task is determining who's who.
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • Pelister
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2742

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Most of them are out of their depth, misguided or deluded, though some are even worse - they are traitors, selling us out for their own personal career ambitions, or at least perceived gain. The hard task is determining who's who.

                        Gruevski is at the top. He was sufficiently ambiguous at around election time on the 'name issue' and did not make a clear statement either way.

                        What Macedonia needs right now is a 'No Negotiations' political party starting at the grass roots to contest the next election. A political party with a FIVE POINT PLAN to defend our identity, defend our legal and historical rights, starting with 1. An Immediate Stop to the Negotiations, followed by rejecting the terms and conditions of the Interim Accord, and Framework Agreement which deprive us of our rights, our soveriegnty and our future.

                        Even if the won a handful of seats, it would quickly sort out who the traitors are in Parliament, and it would sort out where individuals in Parliament really stand on the these key issues.

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          #57
                          I don't know if he still uses it, but Gruevski's idiotic catch phrase "we will not change the constitution with a view to changing the constitutional name" is one of the most idiotic and meaningless I've seen in a long time. He could have effectively changed Macedonia's name and kept the "constitutional" name for internal/domestic use only (without a constitutional change) and not have broken his promise.

                          I have long suspected that Gruevski will eventually join the ranks of his former colleagues (Georgievski and Boskovski). Its a shame that many of the same people who supported his predecessors until it was too late (some even after their obvious treason) continue to make the same mistake with Gruevski.

                          In case it hasn't dawned on anyone, Gruevski has already accepted and legitimised each and every act of treason that was undertaken before him, making him just as guilty as those responsible.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Bratot
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2855

                            #58
                            “Το ίδρυμα του εβραίου κεφαλαιοκράτη, προστάτη των Σκοπίων και των διαφόρων «Μη Κυβερνητικών Οργανώσεων», Τζωρτζ Σόρος, ίδρυμα με την ονομασία “Democratic Idea Factory” θα είναι η πηγή ιδεών για την κυβέρνηση Ομπάμα σύμφωνα με το πρακτορείο ειδήσεων Bloomberg… “

                            Во превод:
                            Фондацијата на Еврејскиот капиталист, протектор на Скопје и различните НГО, Џорџ Сорос, институцијата под името “Democratic Idea Factory“ ќе биде ИЗВОРОТ на идеи на владата на Обама, според новинската агенција Блумберг.
                            ----
                            Значи според Грците, администрацијата на Обама која им е наклонета, преку Институтот Отворено Општество на Сорос и Милчин ќе се обиде да турка решение во полза на Грција.


                            “Soros-Funded Democratic Idea Factory Becomes Obama Policy Font“



                            Понатаму....

                            “Институтот Отворено општество Македонија е една од попознатите фондации кои делуваат во Македонија. Својата работа ја започна пред цела деценија, во 1992 година, како претставништво на странска фондација во Македонија, а од октомври 1999 година е регистрирана како домашно правно лице, согласно Законот за здруженија на граѓани и фондации на Република Македонија. За работата и најновите програми на Институтот Отворено општество Македонија разговаравме со директорот на оваа фондација, г. Владимир Милчин.Годинава, како што не информираше тој, буџетот на Фондацијата изнесува околу седум милиони долари, а се очекува оваа сума да се зголеми. Најголем дел од тоа е донација на г. Џорџ Сорос, но во финансирањето учествуваат и други партнери.“

                            http://www.graganskisvet.org.mk/defa...5CBF5E29F26DA2 2


                            "Црвенковски разговараше со мултимилијардерот Сорос"На средбата беше изразено задоволство од досегашното дејствување на Фондацијата во Македонија, при што беа потенцирани активностите во правец на зајакнување на цивилниот сектор, но и партнерството и соработката со државните институции во реализацијата на проекти од заеднички интерес. Целта на посетата беше да се разгледаат можностите, приоритетите и модалитетите на дејствувањето на Фондацијата во земјава.

                            The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                            Comment

                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              #59
                              Good point RTG when all else fails it is the inalienable rights that people need to protect.Indigen makes a good point of that.Also this Sorros foundation is political & it's causes have changed that many times that one wonders if it's preserving the specific principles & rights.
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

                              Comment

                              • Big Bad Sven
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 1528

                                #60
                                The current VMRO should change their names, they have nothing in common with the real and original VMRO that risked their lives for Macedonia. Today’s VMRO are nothing more then your typical corrupt former commie politicians that only foolishly think short term.

                                It’s a pity that Macedonia doesn’t have any real strong nationalist parties, yet it has nationalist Albanian and serb parties that openly talk about greater Albania or Serbia inside Macedonia’s borders…….

                                Would love to see something similar as to what the Slovaks and Hungarians have for national parties. The leader of the Slovakian nationalist party calls the Hungarian minority in slovakia “a cancer in the body of the Slovak nation”, while the leader of the Hungarian nationalist party goes to all of the countries that became the “lost territories of hungary” and demonstrates for the unity of Hungarian lands, I think he is banned from Romania, Serbia and slovakia LOL.

                                At least with parties like that you know were they sit on the side of the fence….

                                Comment

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