my iGENEA test

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  • Amphipolis
    Banned
    • Aug 2014
    • 1328

    I'm afraid there are... hundreds of them. Here's one different (for me again)

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Macedonia @ 3.882039
    2 Greek_Thessaloniki @ 4.376761
    3 Greek_Greece @ 4.401597
    4 Albanian_Albania @ 4.674010
    5 Greek_Peloponnes @ 4.825310
    6 Greek_Athens @ 5.509539
    7 Italian_Abruzzo @ 6.368411
    8 Kosovar_Kosovo @ 7.006184
    9 Greek_Greece @ 7.200730
    10 Italian_SouthItaly @ 7.488135
    11 Gagauz_Gagauzia @ 7.581893
    12 Sicilian_Sicily @ 7.771745
    13 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 8.452600
    14 Jew_Ashkenazim @ 8.839959
    15 Bulgarian_Bulgaria @ 9.615767
    16 Maltese_Malta @ 9.666642
    17 Italian_Tuscany @ 9.893415
    18 Jew_Ashkenazi @ 9.982136
    19 Bulgarian_Bulgaria @ 10.070098
    20 Macedonian_Macedonia @ 10.606830

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek_Greece +50% Kosovar_Kosovo @ 2.629379


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek_Greece +25% Kosovar_Kosovo +25% Macedonian_Macedonia @ 2.340798


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
    1 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Kosovar_Kosovo @ 2.273316
    2 Greek_Thessaloniki + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Macedonian_Macedonia @ 2.289696
    3 Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Macedonian_Macedonia @ 2.315750
    4 Greek_Thessaloniki + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Montenegrian_Montenegro @ 2.328338
    5 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Greek_Thessaloniki + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece @ 2.334846
    6 German_Germany + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece @ 2.336279
    7 Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Kosovar_Kosovo + Macedonian_Macedonia @ 2.340798
    8 Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Montenegrian_Montenegro @ 2.369079
    9 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece @ 2.371108
    10 Albanian_Albania + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Macedonian_Macedonia @ 2.381143
    11 Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens + Greek_Athens + Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 2.388419
    12 Croat_Croatia + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens @ 2.388738
    13 Albanian_Albania + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Montenegrian_Montenegro @ 2.416274
    14 Albanian_Albania + Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece @ 2.422297
    15 Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens + Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 2.434038
    16 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Greek_Thessaloniki + Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens @ 2.442889
    17 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens @ 2.451130
    18 French_NorthwestFrance + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece @ 2.452273
    19 Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Greek_Greece + Serbian_Serbia @ 2.457347
    20 Greek_Macedonia + Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens + Montenegrian_Montenegro @ 2.459517

    Comment

    • Daniel the Great
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2009
      • 1084

      Yes I know there is Amphipolis. But there is names to each test. For example, Eurogenes K15 etc etc.

      Comment

      • Daniel the Great
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2009
        • 1084

        This specific calculator is called Dodecad V3.


        # Population Percent
        1 Mediterranean 30.35
        2 West_European 28.12
        3 West_Asian 19.58
        4 East_European 14.9
        5 Southwest_Asian 6.08
        6 Northwest_African 0.39
        7 East_African 0.26
        8 Southeast_Asian 0.18
        9 Northeast_Asian 0.14

        Single Population Sharing:

        # Population (source) Distance
        1 Romanians_14 (Behar) 10.59
        2 Tuscan (Xing) 11.19
        3 Tuscan (Henn) 11.95
        4 TSI (HapMap) 12.19
        5 Balkans (Dodecad) 14
        6 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 14.01
        7 O_Italian (Dodecad) 15.32
        8 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 15.61
        9 Slovenian (Xing) 16.8
        10 N_Italian (Dodecad) 17.54
        11 Hungarians (Behar) 17.57
        12 C_Italian (Dodecad) 18.04
        13 Greek (Dodecad) 18.99
        14 Tuscan (HGDP) 19.13
        15 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 21.36
        16 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 21.8
        17 North_Italian (HGDP) 22.28
        18 Sicilian (Dodecad) 22.72
        19 S_Italian (Dodecad) 24.21
        20 Stalskoe (Xing) 24.79

        Comment

        • Amphipolis
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 1328

          I think you start with the tool called:
          Admixture/Oracle with Population Search

          You enter a group (e.g. Greek or Macedonian). Then they give you a list of relevant projects (it has 8 on Macedonia, about 50 for Greece). You choose one

          You continue and there's an irrelevant pie

          Then I click Oracle 4 and you see this result. I'm still a little confused as all results are similar, yet little different.



          ==
          Last edited by Amphipolis; 11-07-2018, 09:56 AM.

          Comment

          • Daniel the Great
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2009
            • 1084

            Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
            I think you start with the tool called:
            Admixture/Oracle with Population Search

            You enter a group (e.g. Greek or Macedonian). Then they give you a list of relevant projects (it has 8 on Macedonia, about 50 for Greece). You choose one

            You continue and there's an irrelevant pie

            Then I click Oracle 4 and you see this result. I'm still a little confused as all results are similar, yet little different.



            ==
            Ahh i see what you are going on now.

            Go to the option right above that one called 'admixture (heritage)'. Then you can choose specific tests to run your dna through.

            The tests are created by different people. These people have gathered genetic data and created their tests based on the data they have compiled. That's why they are different.

            Comment

            • Amphipolis
              Banned
              • Aug 2014
              • 1328

              This is my Dodecad v3. My understanding is that they have more irrelevant or archaic groups.

              # Population Percent
              1 Mediterranean 32.94
              2 West_Asian 22.98
              3 West_European 22.93
              4 East_European 11.86
              5 Southwest_Asian 7.33


              Finished reading population data. 227 populations found.
              12 components mode.

              --------------------------------

              Least-squares method.

              Using 1 population approximation:
              1 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 9.454383
              2 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 10.958158
              3 Tuscan_Xing @ 11.452998
              4 Tuscan_Henn @ 12.626116
              5 TSI_HapMap @ 12.670406
              6 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 13.739460
              7 Romanians_14_Behar @ 14.208998
              8 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 14.645659
              9 Greek_Dodecad @ 14.890677
              10 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 17.003559
              11 Morocco_Jews_Behar @ 17.938751
              12 Tuscan_HGDP @ 18.347776
              13 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 18.723278
              14 Balkans_Dodecad @ 19.836933
              15 S_Italian_Dodecad @ 20.016169
              16 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 20.314955
              17 Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 22.060648
              18 North_Italian_HGDP @ 24.676373
              19 Turkish_Dodecad @ 25.505041
              20 Stalskoe_Xing @ 25.651131

              Using 2 populations approximation:
              1 50% Cypriots_Behar +50% Slovenian_Xing @ 3.174092


              Using 3 populations approximation:
              1 50% Cypriots_Behar +25% Romanians_14_Behar +25% Swedish_Dodecad @ 2.287805


              Using 4 populations approximation:
              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
              1 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + N._European_Xing @ 1.004811
              2 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 1.099948
              3 CEU_HapMap + Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.161341
              4 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.323344
              5 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.325097
              6 Armenian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + French_Basque_HGDP + Polish_Dodecad @ 1.443494
              7 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + CEU_HapMap + Sicilian_Dodecad @ 1.587432
              8 Armenian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + French_Basque_HGDP + Mixed_Slav_Dodecad @ 1.652229
              9 Balkans_Dodecad + Druze_HGDP + German_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad @ 1.712130
              10 Assyrian_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + Tuscan_HGDP + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.715827
              11 Druze_HGDP + German_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.745955
              12 CEU_HapMap + Greek_Dodecad + Iraq_Jews_Behar + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.746635
              13 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Sicilian_Dodecad @ 1.760985
              14 Druze_HGDP + German_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + S_Italian_Dodecad @ 1.769945
              15 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + French_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad @ 1.813290
              16 Armenian_Dodecad + Ashkenazi_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + Polish_Dodecad @ 1.835775
              17 Greek_Dodecad + Iraq_Jews_Behar + Orcadian_HGDP + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.860595
              18 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Sicilian_Dodecad @ 1.864035
              19 Druze_HGDP + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.892402
              20 Greek_Dodecad + Iraq_Jews_Behar + Romanians_14_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 1.939554

              Comment

              • Daniel the Great
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2009
                • 1084

                Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                This is my Dodecad v3. My understanding is that they have more irrelevant or archaic groups.

                # Population Percent
                1 Mediterranean 32.94
                2 West_Asian 22.98
                3 West_European 22.93
                4 East_European 11.86
                5 Southwest_Asian 7.33


                Finished reading population data. 227 populations found.
                12 components mode.

                --------------------------------

                Least-squares method.

                Using 1 population approximation:
                1 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 9.454383
                2 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 10.958158
                3 Tuscan_Xing @ 11.452998
                4 Tuscan_Henn @ 12.626116
                5 TSI_HapMap @ 12.670406
                6 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 13.739460
                7 Romanians_14_Behar @ 14.208998
                8 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 14.645659
                9 Greek_Dodecad @ 14.890677
                10 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 17.003559
                11 Morocco_Jews_Behar @ 17.938751
                12 Tuscan_HGDP @ 18.347776
                13 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 18.723278
                14 Balkans_Dodecad @ 19.836933
                15 S_Italian_Dodecad @ 20.016169
                16 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 20.314955
                17 Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 22.060648
                18 North_Italian_HGDP @ 24.676373
                19 Turkish_Dodecad @ 25.505041
                20 Stalskoe_Xing @ 25.651131

                Using 2 populations approximation:
                1 50% Cypriots_Behar +50% Slovenian_Xing @ 3.174092


                Using 3 populations approximation:
                1 50% Cypriots_Behar +25% Romanians_14_Behar +25% Swedish_Dodecad @ 2.287805


                Using 4 populations approximation:
                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
                1 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + N._European_Xing @ 1.004811
                2 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 1.099948
                3 CEU_HapMap + Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.161341
                4 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.323344
                5 Druze_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.325097
                6 Armenian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + French_Basque_HGDP + Polish_Dodecad @ 1.443494
                7 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + CEU_HapMap + Sicilian_Dodecad @ 1.587432
                8 Armenian_Dodecad + Cypriots_Behar + French_Basque_HGDP + Mixed_Slav_Dodecad @ 1.652229
                9 Balkans_Dodecad + Druze_HGDP + German_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad @ 1.712130
                10 Assyrian_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + Tuscan_HGDP + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.715827
                11 Druze_HGDP + German_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.745955
                12 CEU_HapMap + Greek_Dodecad + Iraq_Jews_Behar + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.746635
                13 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Sicilian_Dodecad @ 1.760985
                14 Druze_HGDP + German_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + S_Italian_Dodecad @ 1.769945
                15 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + French_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad @ 1.813290
                16 Armenian_Dodecad + Ashkenazi_Dodecad + North_Italian_HGDP + Polish_Dodecad @ 1.835775
                17 Greek_Dodecad + Iraq_Jews_Behar + Orcadian_HGDP + Romanians_14_Behar @ 1.860595
                18 Assyrian_Dodecad + Balkans_Dodecad + Orkney_1000 Genomes + Sicilian_Dodecad @ 1.864035
                19 Druze_HGDP + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_14_Behar + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.892402
                20 Greek_Dodecad + Iraq_Jews_Behar + Romanians_14_Behar + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 1.939554

                Yes. Gedmatch shows more distant ancestry.

                Comment

                • tchaiku
                  Member
                  • Nov 2016
                  • 786

                  A Pontic Greek results:

                  # Population Percent
                  1 West_Asian 40.42
                  2 East_Med 34.45
                  3 West_Med 9.43
                  4 Atlantic 5.41
                  5 Red_Sea 5.13
                  6 Eastern_Euro 2.46
                  7 North_Sea 2.4
                  8 Southeast_Asian 0.17
                  9 Baltic 0.14

                  Single Population Sharing:

                  # Population (source) Distance
                  1 Armenian 5.21
                  2 Georgian_Jewish 7.04
                  3 Assyrian 10.8
                  4 Kurdish 11.72
                  5 Turkish 12.53
                  6 Azeri 13.29
                  7 Iranian 14.6
                  8 Kurdish_Jewish 15.37
                  9 Iranian_Jewish 15.81
                  10 Lebanese_Muslim 17.44
                  11 Georgian 18.13
                  12 Kumyk 19.71
                  13 Cyprian 19.84
                  14 Syrian 20
                  15 Abhkasian 21.1
                  16 Adygei 21.8
                  17 Lebanese_Christian 21.85
                  18 Lebanese_Druze 22.98
                  19 Ossetian 23.14
                  20 Balkar 23.54

                  Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

                  # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
                  1 50.9% Abhkasian + 49.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.44
                  2 89.3% Armenian + 10.7% Abhkasian @ 4.59
                  3 87.8% Armenian + 12.2% Georgian @ 4.61
                  4 52.2% Abhkasian + 47.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.75
                  5 54.9% Georgian + 45.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.75
                  6 93.2% Armenian + 6.8% North_Ossetian @ 4.9
                  7 92.8% Armenian + 7.2% Ossetian @ 4.91
                  8 92.6% Armenian + 7.4% Adygei @ 4.93
                  9 93.8% Armenian + 6.2% Balkar @ 4.99
                  10 94.3% Armenian + 5.7% Kabardin @ 5.02
                  11 56.3% Georgian + 43.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.07
                  12 95.7% Armenian + 4.3% Chechen @ 5.08
                  13 80.9% Georgian_Jewish + 19.1% Abhkasian @ 5.1
                  14 78.3% Georgian_Jewish + 21.7% Georgian @ 5.14
                  15 96.6% Armenian + 3.4% Kumyk @ 5.17
                  16 97.4% Armenian + 2.6% Lezgin @ 5.17
                  17 99.2% Armenian + 0.8% French_Basque @ 5.19
                  18 99.1% Armenian + 0.9% Tabassaran @ 5.21
                  19 100% Armenian + 0% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.21
                  20 100% Armenian + 0% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.21


                  # Population Percent
                  1 Caucasian 54.29
                  2 South_Central_Asian 15.82
                  3 Near_East 11.96
                  4 European_Early_Farmers 10.26
                  5 Austronesian 2.03
                  6 North_African 1.71
                  7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.67


                  Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
                  23 components mode.

                  --------------------------------

                  Least-squares method.

                  Using 1 population approximation:
                  1 Armenian_ @ 5.254725
                  2 Armenian_Yerevan_ @ 5.952851
                  3 Assyrian_Arzni_ @ 6.971419
                  4 Turk_Trabzon_ @ 7.890087
                  5 Jew_Tat_ @ 9.691676
                  6 Kakheti_ @ 11.246184
                  7 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 11.999396
                  8 Turk_Kayseri_ @ 12.579285
                  9 Georgian_Jew_ @ 12.826561
                  10 Iraqi_Jew_ @ 13.343711
                  11 Druze_ @ 13.451194
                  12 Lebanese_Druze_ @ 13.685290
                  13 Uzbekistani_Jew_ @ 14.398694
                  14 Iranian_Jew_ @ 14.559340
                  15 Turk_ @ 14.704284
                  16 Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 14.865918
                  17 Georgian_ @ 15.073127
                  18 Kurd_Jew_ @ 15.219669
                  19 Adjara_ @ 15.334502
                  20 Turk_Adana_ @ 15.678058

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    HELEN ABADZI

                    Ancestral purity or genetic mirage? The case of Macedonia

                    URL:
                    The year 2018 has transformed relations between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM). The Prespes agreement, signed on June 12, attempts to resolve the Macedonia name dispute, so that Greece will permit FYROM entry to the European Union and to NATO.


                    The year 2018 has transformed relations between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia (RoM). The Prespes agreement, signed on June 12, attempts to resolve the Macedonia name dispute, so that Greece will permit RoM entry to the European Union and to NATO. It was followed by a vote by the RoM Parliament on September 30 to change its name to “North Macedonia.” Direct flights between the two capitals started on November 1.

                    The Yugoslavian state of Macedonia became independent in 1993. Greek governments have been opposed to the inclusion of the term “Macedonia” in the country’s name. They argue that its citizens are Slavs who speak a Bulgarian dialect, unlike the ancient Macedonians who were Greek and spoke a Greek dialect. Alexander the Great could not possibly be related to Slavs, who moved to the region in the 6th century AD.

                    The moves to solve the impasse have been met with resistance in both countries. RoM is informally called Macedonia, and its citizens resent the change of name. Nationalist sentiments are fueled by an onslaught of fake and distorted news, aimed at stoking mutual anger and distrust. The drums of war are rolling, and some Greeks could try to defend their besmirched honor in the abducted name of Macedonia, as if the region were Helen of Troy.

                    But what if Helen were a mirage? The ancient playwright Euripides developed the scenario that “Eleni” had never been in Troy; the gods had placed an idol in her place. The famous Nobelist George Seferis used the metaphor to argue that thousands of people died fighting for an “empty shirt.”

                    The metaphor is again apt. The spoiler gods are the DNA codes of the inhabitants. They ride on a chariot of genomics, a biology branch aimed at decoding the human genome and its variations. And they dispel myths of ancestral purity and direct descendance from glorious men. This is story that emerges.

                    Homo sapiens settled Europe in about three migration waves. The first wave came from Africa about 43,000 years ago; the men were hunters and the women were gatherers of plants. They were gradually displaced or absorbed by a second migration, 9,000 years ago, that came from the Near East. These Neolithic-age settlers were farmers with families who merged with the first wave.

                    About 5,000 years ago, a third migration wave originated from the Caucasus Mountains. Perhaps 90 percent of the migrants were men, who were herders and rode horses. They were warlike and bred with local women, either by force or by choice. They mainly spoke Indo-European languages that morphed into Greek, Illyrian, Thracian, Phrygian and others. In Macedonia and Epirus these tribes settled near each other and intermarried. According to ancient historians (Strabo), many residents were bilingual in the 4th century BC.

                    Philip II and his son, Alexander the Great, descended from mixed families and also married non-Greek women. Contemporary RoM was inhabited mainly by Paionians, who allied themselves with Athens and were militarily subjugated by Philip. Paionians seem to have become eventually Roman citizens. (A 5th century AD Paionian resident wrote in Greek.) Furthermore the borders of an entity called “Macedonia” changed multiple times over the centuries.

                    Tribal migrations continued for the next 1,500 years or so, bringing Germans, Slavs and ultimately Turks to Europe. Like the earlier Indo-Europeans, the Slavs were numerous and fought hard, so they appear to have been mainly males. Research from Poland and elsewhere suggests that Slavs married local women, whose maternal lineage descended from the second migration wave. So on one hand, the male Macedonians of the 4th BC century may be only remotely related to the male Slavs of the 6th century AD. But on the other, the mothers of both ethnicities have been largely in Europe since the Neolithic era. Women may have changed ethnicity, language and religion, but the mitochondrial DNA points to the origin.

                    More research is under way, but existing DNA analyses show similar distributions of haplogroups in Greece and RoM. Thus it can be roughly stated that Greeks and RoM citizens are closely related at least on the maternal side.

                    Furthermore, a lack of relationship is impossible, even on the paternal side. The earth around the start of the Common Era numbered perhaps 300 million humans, and today’s 8 billion descend from them. In fact mathematical ancestry estimates suggest common ancestors for entire countries. Thus, it seems genetically impossible to distinguish Greek Macedonians from Macedonians.

                    So the belief that ancient Macedonia was exclusively Greek is a mirage. In their most glorious moments, the Macedonian men and women shared the space with Illyrians, Paionians, Thracians, Celts, Phrygians and others. And surely many of them spoke the languages of their neighbors and relatives.

                    Science changes the discourse about Macedonia. Can the two sides use it to overcome folk beliefs? There are huge political and environmental issues that must be jointly tackled. If globalist Alexander were alive, he might advise both sides to ignore provocations and the empty shirt of racial purity. Probably everyone born in the region shares ancestors with him. Greece and North Macedonia can best honor him by forming a lasting alliance.

                    Helen Abadzi is a Greek educational psychologist and an employee of the World Bank. This essay represents the author’s views.

                    Comment

                    • maco2envy
                      Member
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 288

                      I found that read to be overall pretty confusing. Macedonia's mtDNA distribution clusters more with western europeans, while Greece and Bulgaria cluster more toward asia according to the data at
                      Frequency tables showing the percentage for each mtDNA haplogroup by country and region in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa.

                      What's especially interesting is that there is a large prevalence of the H1 and H3 haplogroups in Macedonia compared to its neighbors, which is a haplogroup that is more frequent in western Europe, especially amongst Basques:



                      Unfortunately, this data has no references and eupedia has negative image, so take such information with a grain of salt.

                      Although she is correct that these invaders/migrants were mainly men since migration back in those time would have been difficult, especially in the mountainous regions of Macedonia/Thrace and the hot summers within those areas since water access is a large issue for ancient migrations. So distributions of MtDNA do have some value with respect to ancient inhabitants.

                      Comment

                      • maco2envy
                        Member
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 288

                        A big (and recent) finding with regards to the inheritance of MtDNA: MtDNA is not necessarily maternally inherited.

                        Radical Findings Show Mitochondrial DNA Can Be Inherited From Dads

                        Not all DNA is the same, and science has long held that not all kinds of DNA are passed down from both your mother and your father. But it looks like the time has come to rewrite the textbooks.

                        While most of our DNA resides within the nucleus of the cell, some of our genetic code is stored inside mitochondria, the so-called 'powerhouse of the cell'. The conventional view is this mitochondrial DNA (or mtDNA) is only inherited from mothers, but new evidence suggests that's not the case at all.

                        A new study led by geneticist Taosheng Huang from the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Centre shows human mitochondrial DNA can be paternally inherited, in a landmark case that started with the treatment of a sick four-year-old boy.

                        The child, who was showing signs of fatigue, muscle pain, and other symptoms, was evaluated by doctors, and tested to see if he had a mitochondrial disorder.

                        When Huang ran the tests – and then ran them again to be sure – he couldn't make sense of the results that came back.

                        "That's impossible," he told NOVA Next.

                        The reason Huang was so shocked was because the boy's results showed a mix – called a heteroplasmy – in his mitochondrial DNA, which was made up of more then just maternal contributions.

                        While there's evidence of paternal mtDNA transmission in other species, the existence of the phenomenon in humans has been debated, but has never before been demonstrated like this.

                        "This upends entire fields based on genetics," ecologist Trevor Branch from the University of Washington, who wasn't involved with the research, tweeted about the discovery.

                        When the boy's sisters showed evidence of the same heteroplasmy, Huang and fellow researchers analysed the mtDNA of the children's mother, which also showed the same mix.

                        This led the team to analyse the mother's parents' mtDNA, ultimately finding that the mother's mtDNA came from a roughly 60/40 split respectively from her mother and father.

                        "Our results suggest that, although the central dogma of maternal inheritance of mtDNA remains valid, there are some exceptional cases where paternal mtDNA could be passed to the offspring," the authors explain in their paper.

                        But while these cases might be exceptional, they're not necessarily as rare as scientists might have thought.

                        In all, the researchers identified three unrelated multi-generation families that showed a high level of mtDNA heteroplasmy – ranging from 24 to 76 percent – across 17 separate individuals.

                        Prior to this, two separate case reports occurring early in the century had suggested biparental mtDNA transmission may be possible, but for 16 years no other evidence came forward.

                        Now, we know those results weren't isolated, and as sequencing technology becomes progressively more advanced, it gives us a better tool for understanding just what's going on here and how common paternal mtDNA transmission really is.

                        "This is a really groundbreaking discovery," biologist Xinnan Wang from Stanford University, who wasn't involved in the research, told NOVA Next.

                        "It could open up an entirely new field… and change how we look for the cause of [certain mitochondrial] diseases."

                        The researchers say that the strength of the former view – that only maternal transmission was possible – could have meant many instances of biparental transmission before now were overlooked as technical errors.

                        Be that as it may, they suggest their "clear and provocative" evidence should now initiate a broader assessment of the mtDNA possibilities, despite maternal transmission remaining the norm.

                        "Clearly, these results will need to be brought in agreement with the fact that maternal inheritance remains absolutely dominant on an evolutionary timescale and that occasional paternal transmission events seem to have left no detectable mark on the human genetic record," the team writes.

                        "Still, this remains an unprecedented opportunity in the field."

                        The findings are reported in PNAS.
                        Not all DNA is the same, and science has long held that not all kinds of DNA are passed down from both your mother and your father.

                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          Early farmers from across Europe directly descended from Neolithic Aegeans

                          URL - pdf:



                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            Here are my results from GedMatch, using the Eurogenes K13 admixture model. It is the same model that this Pontic Greek from Kozani used:


                            I'd be curious to know what other calc. models have you tried (for those who used/posted results from GedMatch)?

                            In the results below, I have highlighted some selections/results that I found striking.

                            Admix Results (sorted):

                            # Population Percent
                            1 North_Atlantic 22.62
                            2 Baltic 21.39
                            3 East_Med 21.06
                            4 West_Med 18.54
                            5 West_Asian 11.14
                            6 Red_Sea 3.14
                            7 Siberian 1.79

                            Least-squares method.

                            Using 1 population approximation:
                            1 Bulgarian @ 3.677488
                            2 Romanian @ 5.139171
                            3 Greek_Thessaly @ 8.192717
                            4 Serbian @ 9.848785
                            5 Tuscan @ 14.134001
                            6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 15.084431
                            7 North_Italian @ 15.721199
                            8 Central_Greek @ 15.998794
                            9 West_Sicilian @ 16.633553
                            10 Moldavian @ 16.859331
                            11 East_Sicilian @ 17.300739
                            12 Hungarian @ 19.295135
                            13 Ashkenazi @ 19.389509
                            14 Croatian @ 20.134830
                            15 South_Italian @ 20.762630
                            16 Austrian @ 22.048748
                            17 Portuguese @ 23.049458
                            18 French @ 23.924433
                            19 Spanish_Galicia @ 23.941080
                            20 Spanish_Extremadura @ 23.964220

                            Using 2 populations approximation:
                            1 50% Greek_Thessaly +50% Serbian @ 1.944798

                            Using 3 populations approximation:
                            1 50% Greek_Thessaly +25% Romanian +25% Serbian @ 1.703439

                            Using 4 populations approximation:
                            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                            1 Cyprian + North_Italian + Romanian + Ukrainian @ 1.563608
                            2 Bulgarian + South_Italian + Southwest_Russian + Tuscan @ 1.565188
                            3 Bulgarian + Serbian + Serbian + South_Italian @ 1.602061
                            4 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + South_Polish + West_Sicilian @ 1.616910
                            5 Cyprian + North_Italian + Serbian + Ukrainian @ 1.619335
                            6 Bulgarian + East_Sicilian + Romanian + Serbian @ 1.631858
                            7 Central_Greek + Romanian + Ukrainian + West_Sicilian @ 1.632047
                            8 Cyprian + North_Italian + Romanian + Southwest_Russian @ 1.670917
                            9 Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + Southwest_Russian + Tuscan @ 1.672369
                            10 Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + Romanian + Serbian @ 1.703439
                            11 Bulgarian + Estonian + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 1.716352
                            12 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Serbian + West_Sicilian @ 1.717275
                            13 Central_Greek + Serbian + South_Italian + South_Polish @ 1.720889
                            14 Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Abruzzo + Tuscan @ 1.725076
                            15 Bulgarian + South_Italian + Tuscan + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.726131
                            16 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Ukrainian + West_Sicilian @ 1.726674
                            17 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Romanian + Serbian @ 1.726678
                            18 Serbian + South_Italian + South_Italian + Ukrainian @ 1.733448
                            19 Central_Greek + Serbian + South_Italian + Ukrainian @ 1.739880
                            20 Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Erzya + North_Italian @ 1.756122


                            Last edited by Carlin; 01-20-2019, 09:00 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              URL:


                              Pontian's result using the Eurogenes K13 admixture model.





                              Comment

                              • maco2envy
                                Member
                                • Jan 2015
                                • 288

                                My Dad's Eurogenes K13 results:

                                Admix Results (sorted):

                                #
                                Population
                                Percent
                                1
                                East_Med
                                24.10
                                2
                                Baltic
                                21.53
                                3
                                North_Atlantic
                                20.56
                                4
                                West_Med
                                17.63
                                5
                                West_Asian
                                10.95
                                6
                                Red_Sea
                                2.96
                                7
                                Amerindian
                                1.01


                                Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
                                13 components mode.

                                --------------------------------

                                Least-squares method.

                                Using 1 population approximation:
                                1 Bulgarian @ 5.138119
                                2 Greek_Thessaly @ 6.614001
                                3 Romanian @ 7.925223
                                4 Serbian @ 12.493502
                                5 Central_Greek @ 14.316034
                                6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 14.445589
                                7 Tuscan @ 14.914110
                                8 East_Sicilian @ 15.586819
                                9 West_Sicilian @ 15.773703
                                10 Ashkenazi @ 16.795723
                                11 North_Italian @ 17.900188
                                12 Moldavian @ 18.974867
                                13 South_Italian @ 19.176466
                                14 Hungarian @ 21.854023
                                15 Croatian @ 22.221544
                                16 Italian_Jewish @ 24.796848
                                17 Algerian_Jewish @ 24.839354
                                18 Sephardic_Jewish @ 25.013994
                                19 Austrian @ 25.019979
                                20 Portuguese @ 25.770416

                                Using 2 populations approximation:
                                1 50% Bulgarian +50% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.880129


                                Using 3 populations approximation:
                                1 50% Greek_Thessaly +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.993367


                                Using 4 populations approximation:
                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                1 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Bulgarian @ 1.709685
                                2 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_Russian @ 1.717500
                                3 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Romanian @ 1.761128
                                4 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish @ 1.850986
                                5 Belorussian + Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish @ 1.894605
                                6 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Russian_Smolensk @ 1.907072
                                7 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Lithuanian + South_Italian @ 1.909957
                                8 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + South_Italian + Ukrainian @ 1.915853
                                9 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.928756
                                10 Belorussian + Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian @ 1.967754
                                11 Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Romanian + Southwest_Russian @ 1.979057
                                12 Bulgarian + Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian @ 1.983720
                                13 Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.993367
                                14 Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Lithuanian @ 1.996388
                                15 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Russian_Smolensk + South_Italian @ 2.045824
                                16 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Ukrainian @ 2.053999
                                17 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Italian_Jewish + Polish @ 2.075090
                                18 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + South_Italian + South_Polish @ 2.076056
                                19 Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_Russian @ 2.076612
                                20 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + South_Italian + Southwest_Russian @ 2.095118
                                Last edited by maco2envy; 01-20-2019, 10:15 PM.

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