Possible Etymology of Alexander

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  • Bratot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2855

    #31
    On a special request the title cover of this^ book

    [IMG][/IMG]
    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

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    • Chakalarov
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2014
      • 48

      #32
      Possible Etymology of Alexander

      First off, I want to say that the name Alexander (Alexandros) is undoubtedly Greek in origin. But how are we to know if this wasn't the Greek equivalent to a Macedonian name? We already know that the Greeks "Hellenized" most names, including Persian and Greek. For example, the Xerxes we know today was actually called Xšaya-ṛšā by his fellow Persians.

      With regards to Alexander, I see three elements pop up to me. Separating the name into ALE-KSAND-DAR better illustrates this.

      We first have ALE, which I believe is a form of the Macedonian version of Helios, the god of the sun, called ILY. This name is seen in the inscriptions discovered by Vasil Ilov.

      Secondly, we have KSAND. I believe this derives from KSAND(OS) the god of light to the Macedonians.

      Finally, DAR obviously equates with the modern-day Macedonian, meaning "gift". This being used as a suffix is not anything new; for example we still find the name Bozhidar today, meaning "Gift of God." Furthermore, with even deeper research we find the name Darron, who was the ancient Macedonian god of healing.

      Putting all these together, we arrive at ILY-KSAND-DAR. I have no evidence to back me up, but I think Alexander's name in original Macedonian carried the meaning of "Gift of Ily and Ksandos"

      Any comments?

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      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        #33
        The gift of the sun god.Its clear this was macedonised.& the greeks helenised the names.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • Chakalarov
          Junior Member
          • Feb 2014
          • 48

          #34
          I agree with the sun god part, but I haven't seen any explanations about the -ksand part. I think this is a reasonable theory, given the Macedonians' obsession with the light/sun.

          Comment

          • Sweet Sixteen
            Banned
            • Jan 2014
            • 203

            #35
            Originally posted by Chakalarov View Post
            Any comments?
            Can you provide some info or reference to the following parts (which I hear for the first time?)

            1. "Helios, the god of the sun, called ILY. This name is seen in the inscriptions discovered by Vasil Ilov."

            2. Is ILY your modern-day word for Sun? Or what exactly?

            3. KSAND(OS) the god of light to the Macedonians.

            Also, are you suggesting that Alexander was called/ written this way (Αλέξανδρος) by others and not by himself (like Xerxes)? Does that refer to Alexander the Great or Alexander II, Alexander I, or all of them?

            Last edited by Sweet Sixteen; 03-08-2014, 04:22 AM.

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            • George S.
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 10116

              #36
              SS why don't you read all what was foiund in prehistoric times in osinchani etc about il the sun god.lso find out how the Macedonians and later greeks adopted the Macedonian gods.There is quite a lot of material around.Of course in prehistoric times 5000 bc greeks hasn't arrived on the greek peninsula.Funny that the Macedonians had their own ancient prehistoric alphabet prior to the greeks The greeks didn't have a greek alphabet until 3 centuries after linear B(of course linia b is not even an alphabet).Also the greeks had only 25 letters adopted from mostly phoenician,whilst Macedonians had 36 letters in their alphabet.But you can read all this on the net.
              Last edited by George S.; 03-08-2014, 03:35 PM.
              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
              GOTSE DELCEV

              Comment

              • Chakalarov
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2014
                • 48

                #37
                Sweet Sixteen:

                I'll address your points here:

                No, Ily is just the name of the Macedonian equivalent to Helios. In fact the name "sonce" (our word for sun) is derived for the words s-on-ti-si, meaning" you are with him" (the sun god)

                This can be seen here:




                I am suggesting Alexander, like anybody else that wasn't Greek had his name Hellenized. For example, Phillippos is the Greek name for the original Macedonian name, whatever it is. However, that can't be his real name because a. the Macedonians had no letter "Ph"; they referred to him as 'Billippos' and b. the Thracians (whose language was closer to the Macedonians , referred to Phillippopolis as "Pulpudeva", -deva meaning city, so they too clearly did not know him as Phillippos.

                Comment

                • Sweet Sixteen
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2014
                  • 203

                  #38
                  The most common Greek word for Sun is Helios (Ήλιος). In Homer it is found slightly different as Helios (Ηέλιος). In Doric it is Alios (Άλιος) according to Plato and Pindarus. Are you assuming the Macedonian dialect was Doric or is there a real info I’m missing?

                  I couldn’t verify Vasil Ilyov (or Iljov) as a scientist or his findings as real. Can you bring some info? According to Google Scholar he has only made one announcement at a local conference in the late 1980s. May I assume he is an amateur and a TV-persona (?), I have only seen him speaking in (non-translated) videos, I have seen videos mocking him or people calling him a professor, but I couldn’t find a CV or where he is teaching or what he is professing. I tried a google translation of the text you posted and didn’t understand much. Can you give an outline (like 5 lines) and tell us what this text is about?

                  Again, is there any info on Ksand(os)? Did you mean Xanthus (Ξανθός)?

                  If Thracians (or Slavs and Bulgarians later) called Philippoupolis as Pulpudeva, Peldin, Ploudin, Plepdiv and finally Plovdiv that’s rather normal. It happens to every city. Are you suggesting Philip named it differently than what we know?

                  What is the Macedonian alphabet that doesn’t have F/Ph (Φ)? Did the Greek Phi (Φ) sound as modern V?

                  Didn’t have time to check and bring this up more properly (maybe later) but I do remember some names starting with a Φ(Ph) appear in Macedonia with a B instead (if I’m not wrong). What makes you think this applies to Philip or that he was called Bilib? Is it just an assumption again or something found?

                  Wasn’t Alexander or Philip Greek? Were they born with different names or did they use different names for themselves? What makes you think that?

                  -
                  Last edited by Sweet Sixteen; 03-09-2014, 03:34 AM.

                  Comment

                  • George S.
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 10116

                    #39
                    the name Alexander ,Hellenised becomes alexandrous.Phillip Becomes Phillipous when Hellenised.
                    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                    GOTSE DELCEV

                    Comment

                    • Sweet Sixteen
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2014
                      • 203

                      #40
                      Originally posted by George S. View Post
                      the name Alexander ,Hellenised becomes alexandrous.Phillip Becomes Phillipous when Hellenised.
                      Alexander and Philip are simply the English versions of the original Greek names Alexandros (Αλέξανδρος) and Philippos (Φίλιππος).

                      The French versions (for instance) are Alexandre and Philippe

                      The German versions are Alexander (as in English) and Philipp



                      --
                      Last edited by Sweet Sixteen; 03-09-2014, 03:43 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Dejan
                        Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 589

                        #41
                        The name Aleksandar also has the Macedonian word ЛЕК meaning 'cure' or 'heal'. Accompanied with the Macedonian word ДАР meaning 'gift', Aleksandar's name could mean 'the gift of healing' in the Macedonian language. Obviously I am no linguist, but this is easy enough to find by anyone familiar with the Macedonian language.
                        You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                        A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

                        Comment

                        • Chakalarov
                          Junior Member
                          • Feb 2014
                          • 48

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Dejan View Post
                          The name Aleksandar also has the Macedonian word ЛЕК meaning 'cure' or 'heal'. Accompanied with the Macedonian word ДАР meaning 'gift', Aleksandar's name could mean 'the gift of healing' in the Macedonian language. Obviously I am no linguist, but this is easy enough to find by anyone familiar with the Macedonian language.
                          I also viewed it that way as well, but I've struggled to see where the other parts of the name are derived from.

                          Comment

                          • George S.
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 10116

                            #43
                            the greek is the suffix long version alexandrous.THE Macedonian is the shorter versionalexandar.THe gift (dar) by the gods.No ending suffixes like the greeks.
                            Dar or darron means gift in Macedonian very old word.History is tor I is a Macedonian word not greek.THe greeks borrowed Hellenised the Macedonian words.Look at the way the greeks copied the Macedonian gods using their Hellenising to make them greek.
                            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                            GOTSE DELCEV

                            Comment

                            • Sweet Sixteen
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2014
                              • 203

                              #44
                              Originally posted by George S. View Post
                              History is tor I is a Macedonian word not greek.
                              The etymology of History is well known


                              Originally posted by George S. View Post
                              THe greeks borrowed Hellenised the Macedonian words.Look at the way the greeks copied the Macedonian gods using their Hellenising to make them greek.
                              Which words? Which Gods?

                              Comment

                              • Chakalarov
                                Junior Member
                                • Feb 2014
                                • 48

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Sweet Sixteen View Post
                                The etymology of History is well known




                                Which words? Which Gods?
                                Well for example,Poseidon, Aphrodite, Smyrna, Zagreus, Silenus, Semela

                                And Athens, which Herodotus clearly states was inhabited by Pelasgians before the Greeks came and copied their gods, is testament to the Pelasgian legacy. In Pelasgian, (meaning the whites in Macedonian) one can clearly see Proyo-Slavonic roots. It's important to know that Athens in ancient Greek was pronounced with an aspirated voiceless dental plosive (t̪ʰ) so it's pronunciation was much closer to modern-day Macedonian. In regards to it's etymology, Atina means "of the father, or belonging to the father", since it is well-documented that in archaic Macedonian "ata" meant "father", and to this day we still say "Tatina"

                                Not to mention there is no consensus on the etymology of these words, despite what the good people of Wikipedia claim.
                                Last edited by Chakalarov; 03-13-2014, 12:34 PM.

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