Sparta and the Spartans - The History

[tomovsk]

like i said in my first post, it may be a reference to the autochthonous nature of the founders of sparta.

[Soldier of Macedon]

No problem, you also started your first post by saying "concerning the etymology of sparta", in the end Tomovsk, we are left with no Greek etymology for the word, just like several other placenames in Greece that don't have a meaning in Greek. This indicates that it was a pre-Greek word, and may therefore bear some relation to the Thracian name 'Spartacus', as the Thracian presence in the Balkans pre-dates that of the Greeks.

[tomovsk]

that was what i was leading up to. the founders of sparta were the Leleges, descendants of Lelex, who like the Spartoi, was born directly from the earth.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prior to the Dorian invasion, I don't think the people of that area were Hellenic in either speech or identity. Would you agree?

[osiris]

but werent the spartans not indigenous to the area of classical sparta didnt they come as conquerors

[tomovsk]

according to the myths the achaeans were the people who inhabited that area prior to the return of the heraclids, but i have no doubt that before the achaeans the area was populated by non-hellenes. the ancient hellenes ( the real greeks ) themselves had no problem admitting the non-greek character of many founders of famous greek cities.

[osiris]

we are on the same wavelength there tomovsk

[Soldier of Macedon]

The 'return' of the Heraclids (who are supposed to be the Dorians) is a myth itself, as they were never there to begin with. This means that the 'Achaeans' that Homer wrote about were not of the same linguistic group as the 'Dorians', correct?

[tomovsk]

i've read that they are dialects of greek ( along with ionic and aeolian ), but they do have their differences, as achaean is possibly the older dialect.

concerning the heraclids : the dorians were only allied to the heraclids -- heracles and his descendants were only trying to claim a perceived birthright in the peloponnese

[Soldier of Macedon]

I have not seen such suggestions corroborated thus far. Do you have anything we can refer to, a comparison of how Achaean from the Mycanaean period looks compared to Greek?

[tomovsk]

linear b script from mycenaean times:

http://www.ancientscripts.com/linearb.html

[Soldier of Macedon]

Have you read the studies of Chadwick and Ventris, do their explanations of how they came to their conclusions appear sound and satisfactory to you? Can you elaborate on how they came to their conclusions?

The outcome, based on their conclusions, does that look like a proto-Greek language or a proto-Indo-European language?

By the way mate, you seem to have an interest in this topic, are you Greek?

[tomovsk]

i'm no linguist, i don't know greek, and i speak very little macedonian.
i'm sure very few people truly grasp linear b, if it truly is 'greek' to begin with

[Soldier of Macedon]

Are you Macedonian?

[tomovsk]

yes, my family is macedonian on my mother's side.