Zoran Vraniskovski proposes Slav Macedonia

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  • indigen
    Senior Member
    • May 2009
    • 1558

    #31
    Originally posted by Buktop View Post
    the current Macedonian State came into existence in 1944.
    IME, Yes and NO. What came into existence in 1944 and what the Macedonians at the time were struggling for are two different and opposing dimensions. Secondly, post 2001 "Ramkovna Makedonija" is FAR REMOVED from ASNOM and even SRM and IS a NEW MUTANT ANTI-MACEDONIAN IMPERIALIST EXPERIMENTAL MULTI MULTI-ETHNIC ENTITY.

    The Macedonian people renamed their country...in 90-91. This is fact, this is what is being discussed, the official name of the country was changed.
    This is rubbish, IMO!

    The name of the state is and was Macedonia and this is what Macedonians voted for in the referendum of 1991. Only the form of political organisation was changed from Socialist Republic(an) to just Republic(an) and thus this was reflected in the constitution, which was newly created in 1991.

    Comment

    • julie
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 3869

      #32
      Jankovska, absolutely!
      My dad was born in the Republic of Macedonia 1937. He told me In schools the only lessons they learnt were from Serbian bullshit propoganda, that Tito formed the Macedonian state.
      History was something that was taught to him by my dedo, who told him that Alexander Makedonski was not Greek, that the Macedonian nation has been in existence for thousands of years, and one of the first states to be formed , INDIGEN, has posted something to that effect as well
      za stramota , abre razbudise budal narod, nema po prost narod od Makedonskiot narod - shto ve fali, ako sakate da ste Grtsi ili Srbi odite vo pitchka materina nina i ostave ovie budalshtini i glupostvi
      prodadeni dushi i shpioni, protiv nay machen narod Makedonski
      Am pissed off Volk, and Buktop, am very disappointed
      "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

      Comment

      • osiris
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1969

        #33
        the current macedonian state was not the one established as a republic within yugoslavia

        if people want to confuse the 2 or claim one is the natural child of the other thats their the call but i believe that is an incorrect reading of history. there is major difference a qualitative difference between the nature of republic within sfry and now. in most matters we had little if any say in the final decision making process about the most important matters of state.

        now we do.

        the first macedonian state was formed by the ancient macedonians and we are the only people in the balkans who have the right to its legacy. so why shy away from that fact when its the integral argument used by greeks and their deluded and callous allies to question our rights as macedonians.
        Last edited by osiris; 04-07-2010, 03:50 AM.

        Comment

        • Bratot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2855

          #34
          Originally posted by Buktop View Post
          Keep it up, I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself.

          Are you calling this guy a fool?

          Peter Green (Historian and Professor of Classics at the University of Texas):

          "Macedonia was the first large territorial state with an effective centralized political, military and administrative structure to come into being on the continent of Europe". [p.1]

          Originally posted by Buktop View Post
          We are talking about the STATE of Macedonia, not the existence of the identity, territory, or people. Why is this so hard to understand?

          Macedonian ethno-geographical and historical boundaries have not changed the last 25 centuries.

          And we are not talking about continuity of a STATE but continuity of several statehood forms starting with a Kingdom, tetrarchy and monarchy, to several indipendent republic forms.

          Your limited understanding of the term "State" is a result of the USA definition for the status of being a state, rather than being a territory or dependency.
          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

          Comment

          • julie
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 3869

            #35
            Good post Bratot
            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

            Comment

            • Bratot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2855

              #36
              Originally posted by Buktop View Post
              Your issue is completely misdirected.
              The Macedonian people renamed their country and changed their form of government in 90-91. This is fact, this is what is being discussed, the official name of the country was changed as well as the official form of government, nothing to do with the historical use of Macedonia, but only with the existence of the State, which bares no weight on historical, political, or identity arguments.
              The more you post the more you prove your debille pedigree.

              Macedonia changed the political system of governance and NOT it's name, or maybe for you and UMD the political governance is a national NAME as you tend to sponsor the renaming of our country as a by-product of Greek claims.
              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

              Comment

              • Jankovska
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1774

                #37
                Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                Are you calling this guy a fool?

                Peter Green (Historian and Professor of Classics at the University of Texas):

                "Macedonia was the first large territorial state with an effective centralized political, military and administrative structure to come into being on the continent of Europe". [p.1]




                Macedonian ethno-geographical and historical boundaries have not changed the last 25 centuries.

                And we are not talking about continuity of a STATE but continuity of several statehood forms starting with a Kingdom, tetrarchy and monarchy, to several indipendent republic forms.

                Your limited understanding of the term "State" is a result of the USA definition for the status of being a state, rather than being a territory or dependency.
                Absolutely.

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  #38
                  Dosta se nervirate tolku, eve edna pesna da se razveselime.

                  YouTube - Куку Леле - Да Ñи жива и здрава Македонијо
                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • Volk
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 894

                    #39
                    I am truley disappointed at peoples inability to understand key points

                    I will summerize them to avoid confusion:

                    Modern Macedonian State stems from the national awakening in 1903 and its ideals, which include Alexander the Great. It's creation was in 1944 based on ASOMs liberation. There was no Macedonian state inbetween those times, Macedonia was partitioned.

                    Macedonian identity, ethnicity, consciousness and blood stems from ancient times, as has been proven.

                    If you dont know what a state or State is (there is a difference) do some research before posting insulting posts. This was the essence of the discussion.

                    Peoples inability to understand or simply warp thier views because UMD was thrown in is tragic.
                    Last edited by Volk; 04-07-2010, 06:15 AM.
                    Makedonija vo Srce

                    Comment

                    • indigen
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 1558

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Volk View Post
                      I am truley disappointed at peoples inability to understand key points

                      I will summerize them to avoid confusion:

                      Modern Macedonian State stems from the national awakening in 1903 and its ideals, which include Alexander the Great. It's creation was in 1944 based on ASOMs liberation. There was no Macedonian state inbetween those times, Macedonia was partitioned.

                      Macedonian identity, ethnicity, consciousness and blood stems from ancient times, as has been proven.

                      If you dont know what a state or State is (there is a difference) do some research before posting insulting posts. This was the essence of the discussion.

                      People inability understand or simply biased views because UMD was thrown in is tragic.
                      Volk, the 1991 Constitution was crafted by Frchkovski and thus reflects Yugo-Commie ideology, though there would have been many amendments coming from DPMNE and the likes of Todor Petrov, who around 1992 was nicknamed "Mr Amandman" (Mr Ammendment) for tirelessly trying to improve on this very flawed historic document. But even so you can still see in the Preamble that it alludes to something EARLIER than 1903.

                      Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia (1991)

                      Taking as the points of departure the historical, cultural, spiritual and statehood heritage of the Macedonian people and their struggle over centuries for national and social freedom as well as the creation of their own state, and particularly the traditions of statehood and legality of the Krushevo Republic and the historic decisions of the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the People’s Liberation of Macedonia, together with the constitutional and legal continuity of the Macedonian state as a sovereign republic within Federal Yugoslavia and freely manifested will of the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia in the referendum of September 8th, 1991, as well as the historical fact that Macedonia is established as a national state of the Macedonian people, in which full equality as citizens and permanent co-existence with the Macedonian people is provided for Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Romanics and other nationalities living in the Republic of Macedonia, and intent on:

                      • the establishment of the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign and independent state, as well as a civil and democratic one;
                      • the establishment and consolidation of the rule of law as a fundamental system of government;
                      • the guaranteeing of human rights, citizens’ freedoms and ethnic equality;
                      • the provision of peace and a common home for the Macedonian people with the nationalities living in the Republic of Macedonia; and on
                      • the provision of social justice, economic wellbeing and prosperity in the life of the individual and the community,

                      the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia adopts

                      The Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia

                      [....]

                      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=1728&page=2
                      The heritage of Frchkovski and SDSM is the following:
                      The League of Communists of Macedonia was the ruling political party in the Socialist Republic of Macedonia. Its successor after the introduction of political pluralism in 1990 was the League of Communists of Macedonia - Party for Democratic Change (Сојуз на Комунистите на Македонија - Партија за Демократска Преобразба, СКМ-ПДП; Sojuz na Komunistite na Makedonija - Partija za Demokratska Preobrazba, SKM-PDP) led by Petar Gošev, which took part in the first democratic elections in the same year. On its 11th Congress on April 20, 1991, the party finally dropped the "communist" reference from its name and changed it to the current Social Democratic Union of Macedonia.
                      The 1903 uprising had predecessors such as the following:
                      Makedonska Nacionalna Programa (SMK- 1993) - Macedonian National Program (WMC - 1993)
                      ИМАЈЌИ предвид дека македонскиот народ во борбата за национална и социјална слобода ги подига и Разловечкото востание во 1876 година и Кресненското востание во 1878 година,
                      ТРГНУВАЈЌИ од историската вистина дека Македонија е
                      In 1880/1881 we had a "Provisional Government of Macedonia" that issued the following Manifesto:

                      Real Macedonians, faithful offspring of your fatherland!

                      Will you let your fatherland to be destroyed? Look at her, how she is suffocated in slavery, bleeding from the wounds that the surrounding nations have inflicted her with! Look at the heavy chains that the Sultan has put her in! In such a helpless state, all in tears, our dear Macedonia, our beloved fatherland is calling you: my faithful children, you descendents of Aristotle and Alexander the Great, you in whose veins flows Macedonian blood don’t leave me to die, help me! It would be a great shame for you, true Macedonians, if you remain silent witnesses of my burial. No, no, here are my awful bloody wounds, here are my heavy chains: beak them, heal my wounds, do whatever is in your power so the words “Allied and United Macedonia” can be written on the banner that I will raise. When you succeed victoriously, drive away the killer from this land, who fly the banner of discord and sow perilous ideas, dividing you, my children, into countless nations, and so united under the banner of Macedonia, as one nation, rise high that glorious banner and prepare to write single-mindedly on it:

                      “Long live the Macedonian nation! Long live Macedonia!”

                      Comment

                      • Daniel the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2009
                        • 1084

                        #41
                        Zoran Vraniskovski is dreaming if he expects a name change like that.
                        And also i hate it when priests stick there noses in politics who agrees ?


                        ______________________
                        Macedonian and proud

                        Comment

                        • julie
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 3869

                          #42
                          Religion and Politics goes hand in hand Daniel, unfortunately .
                          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                          Comment

                          • Bill77
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 4545

                            #43
                            Daniel,

                            Zoran Vraniskovski is insignificant. I know it iritating when fools make such comments but its the ones running our country we realy have to be aware of.
                            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                            Comment

                            • julie
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2009
                              • 3869

                              #44
                              Bill, a great photo, where did the lions go?
                              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                              Comment

                              • Bill77
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2009
                                • 4545

                                #45
                                Originally posted by julie View Post
                                Bill, a great photo, where did the lions go?
                                Just giving the poor lion a rest. He did well to last that long. What a stud hey? lol

                                I thought it would be good for a laugh in the beginning. But i find my dedo to be more inspirational. :rmacedonia
                                Last edited by Bill77; 04-07-2010, 10:21 AM.
                                http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

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