Dosta Dimovska passes away

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  • indigen
    Senior Member
    • May 2009
    • 1558

    #46
    #42
    Soldier of Macedon

    Originally Posted by indigen
    I asked, seeing how humane you are and that you think death should be mourned, whether you would have considered sending condolences to the Bali Bombers' families when they were executed but NO ANSWER from you. Give me an answer and don't beat about the bush!
    The answer was already given, don't blame me for your inability to see what is clearly written on the wall. As a human I would offer any person condolences for their loss should I feel it appropriate (even if they are from Bali, although I don't have a connection to or an interest in their politics and/or society, so I didn't feel the need to), but that doesn't automatically equate to compassion for the one that was lost.
    You live in Australia (Melbourne) and over 80 Australians of various ethnic backgrounds were killed and many suffered sever injuries, including Melbourne residents and to say you have no connection to or an interest to this incident is, IMO, insensitive and could be considered as highly 'inhumane', the opposite of the persona you are trying to project. I would say that sending condolences to the relatives of those murderers would have been very insensitive to all the victims and their families and may not be a very wise or safe thing to do publicly. I also dare say that you would be much less game to publicly send condolences to the relatives of traitors guilty of high treason had we a real patriotic government in Macedonia that took a tough stance on the traitors and their treasonous acts and personal safety would also be an issue in such a situation, too. But since we have the ideological progenies of the traitors running the country, one need not fear any repercussions and may even gain favour (and I am not saying you are seeking any!) by any act of 'humaneness'.

    Your effort to try and 'lure' me into a statement which is sympathetic to murderers and terrorists is amateurish at best, and pathetic at worst.
    You are again chasing windmills, IMO, as I was simply trying to see whether there was consistency in your “humaneness', where you claim that death was a time to mourn (going from memory and not sure what was the exact phrase you used).

    What do you take me for? Who do you think you're speaking to?
    Please specify in what sense you ask ask these questions, in a general one or in some other sense? I would be happy to give some general opinion but I need some clarity on what the question is about.

    The 2002 Bali bombings occurred on 12 October 2002 in the tourist district of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali. The attack was the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia, killing 202 people, (including 88 Australians, and 38 Indonesian citizens).[1] A further 240 people were injured.


    The 2005 Bali bombings were a series of terrorist suicide bomb and a series of car bombs and attacks that occurred on October 1, 2005, in Bali, Indonesia. Bombs exploded at two sites in Jimbaran Beach Resort and in Kuta 30 km (19 miles) away, both in south Bali. The terrorist attack claimed the lives of 20 people and injured more than 100 others. The three bombers also died in the attacks.

    Casualties
    The latest report cites 20 dead and between 101 to 129 injured.[5] Some earlier reports put the number of fatalities at between 26 to 36 people, but those figures have since been lowered. Among those killed are 15 Indonesians, 4 Australians, and a Japanese national, not counting the 3 suicide bombers. The wounded included many Indonesians, mostly Hindus while the rest were 45 Australians, 6 South Koreans, 6 Americans, 4 Japanese, 3 Canadians and 1 Briton. As there were no records at the hospitals or morgues on the locations from where the victims arrived, it is not possible to determine the casualty figures at each blast location separately[ci
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Bali_bombings
    What is the difference between wishing someone's demise and appreciating the end result when the wish comes true?
    I was drawing distinction between indifference and celebration. Are you talking about something else now? Define 'demise'.
    (dĭ-mīz') pronunciation
    n. 1.
    1. Death.
    2. The end of existence or activity; termination: the demise of the streetcar.
    http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=demise&gwp=13
    That is not the question I asked and I would like an honest reply on the above question.

    How do you explain why the following songs are very,very popular with Macedonians?
    Which of those songs talks about celebrating a death of a person by going to the pub?
    You are sidestepping the relevant issue question (again) by creating nonsense smokescreen and straw man issue/s.

    In what circumstances are those songs set?
    You tell me but it seems you don't comprehend why they were produced in 1996/7 and the political message of intent being conveyed.

    What century do you live in? I am interested in your answers, because as you have shown in the past, some of your suggestions and interpretations are far removed from reality.
    Your response tells me that it is your that is far removed from reality because you, IMO, lack the political deduction skills/ideology to know what those songs are about and the message they were (are) trying to project.

    Are you trying to incite criminal acts here?
    Oh please, get real. Rather than popping open a bottle of champers in celebration of someone's death, why don't you do the deed yourself, given that you feel so strongly about it?
    So we are down to this straw man farce? Next you will have me organising a grand party at the Hilton for “someone's” death.
    The following clip is worth watching to realise what kind of “best wishes” were directed towards the izrodi and vazali from the 1990s:

    Petre Temelkovski - Philip II of Macedon (Part1)
    YouTube - Petre Temelkovski - Philip II of Macedon (Part1)

    Smaller and shorter (basically the kletva/curse part only) excerpt from the above clip.
    YouTube - Petre Temelkovski - KLETVA GOLEMA (prokleti da se predavnicite!).
    (kletva starts @ 1:29 time frame)

    It was a question, not an incitement, do yourself a favour by avoiding words that you're unfamiliar with. I fear that I have made a mistake in giving your intellect far too much credit, as your lack of maturity clearly dominates over the rest of your characteristics.
    Mine was also a question and not a statement and thus don't go off the rails for nothing, Though I suspect you were trying to 'lure' me into a trap of stupidity by making such stupid suggestions. Remember the saying about “sticks and stones?

    What is the difference between wishing someone's demise and appreciating the end result when the wish comes true? How do you explain why the following songs are very, very popular with Macedonians?:

    Goce Arnaudov - Prokleti da se predavnicite

    VOJO STOJANOSKI - Bog da gi bie i ubie predavnicite i dushmanite!

    YouTube - VOJO STOJANOSKI ''Mila Makedonijo''.

    MILA MAKEDONIJO - Vojo Stojanovski (Pobednichka pesna na Goce Fest 1997, fevruari)

    Bog da gi bie i ubie
    predavnicite i dushmanite!
    Bog da gi bie i ubie
    kodoshite i janicharite!
    Mila Makedonijo, od niv stradash ti,
    od svoite izrodi makedonski!
    Mila Makedonijo, od niv stradash ti,
    od svoite izrodi makedonski!

    This song was the winner at Goce Fest 1997!
    -------------

    SoM: Being indifferent is one thing, being joyful is another.
    Lets put it another way, I am quite (very) satisfied with the end result and I would be even more so should it happen to Crvenko and Glupcho in the near future!
    Some heavy curses/kletvi from Macedonians one finds on the internet:

    YouTube - prokleti da se predavnicite


    Makedonija ne prostuva...
    YouTube - Makedonija ne prostuva...
    Порака до сите оние кои работат против доброто на нивната татковина: Проклети да се предавниците!

    Kletvi od Golemite Makedonci
    YouTube - Kletvi od Golemite Makedonci

    Atentat na VMRO (9.X.1934, Marsej)
    YouTube - Atentat na VMRO (9.X.1934, Marsej)

    Comment

    • indigen
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 1558

      #47
      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
      You're the only one that has brought up my religious beliefs.
      You have some strong beliefs in that department and I thought that might be the reason.

      I thought it would be quite simple in that human life has value, whether one subscribes to a particular faith or not.
      Human life or all life? Capital punishment, war/s, state security forces, drivers, industrial accidents and general profit seeking are causing millions of deaths around the world every year and, except for verbal tokenism, life, from where I stand, is not valued all that much by the people with the means to save lives. Thus I will not be accepting any morality preaching on this issue!!!

      Why is it that a person's death deserves to be celebrated just because they were guilty of treason? I can understand indifference, but celebration?
      Some religions, cultures, actually celebrate at funerals but I know you mean something else. I think you are also using a straw man issue here and there is no need to waste bandwidth on it by discussing it any further.

      Regardless, it is a hypocritical position. You indeed may not be guilty of treason, and I was not referring to that, but to the fact that you are guilty of something (as is everyone). So, shall we celebrate your eventual death because of your guilt? What makes your guilt different to that of anyone else's and why is it that we should celebrate their deaths and not yours?
      Vangelovski, High-Treason is a CRIME against the state, generally by those serving as functionaries of the state, and it is the state that needs to deliver the verdict and set the punishment. Until democratic rights are completely extinguished and there is severe political repression preventing such democratic civil rights being expressed, then it is absurd and criminal for anyone to engage in individual acts of violence anywhere where that is the case. Thus you would agree that during the 2001 acts of aggression against the state those that were obliged to defend the state and constitution in fact capitulated and changed the constitution and reconstituted Macedonia from a Macedonian national state into a multi-ethnic non-Macedonian entity, i.e. committed HIGH TREASON, as viewed in any normal society and state. My call for those guilty of HIGH TREASON is to be tried and punished by the law that applies for that crime (and I am supporting a death penalty clause for High Treason crimes!).
      You seek death for those that have committed treason yet you are not willing to carry out the deed yourself.
      That is right! But I am willing to volunteer for a firing squad should the state have any need for volunteers! Crimes against the state need to be punished by the state.

      That is another hypocritical position that you have revealed and a dangerous one at that.
      The only thing revealed is your immature political comprehension on this issue.

      I don't see how you could truly seek Macedonian freedom while at the same time calling for the death penalty for those that may not necessarily agree with you.
      That is twisting the truth a bit, don't you think?

      That is no better than our totalitarian oppressors which we are supposed to be resisting, not recreating.
      You are getting ahead of yourself here, mate!
      Indigen, wishing that God 'kill' your enemies will only add to your own list of charges, which are worthy of death in themselves (according to God's law, whom you have now brought into the debate).
      I can only say that I will be in good company and so be it!

      YouTube - Petre Temelkovski - KLETVA GOLEMA (prokleti da se predavnicite!).
      Last edited by indigen; 04-17-2011, 01:54 AM.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #48
        Originally posted by indigen View Post
        ......to say you have no connection to or an interest to this incident is, IMO.......
        I will stop that sentence at 'IMO', because it seems that your 'O' (like the rest of your 'O's), is based on a deliberately misconstrued statement. Nowhere have I said that I don't have an interest or connection to the incident where Australians have died, and I detest such a cheap and idiotic insinuation - I said I don't have connection to or an interest in the politics and/or society of Bali. Now, if you're done creating fictional scenarios for the purpose of developing an argument, try and enter the real world.
        That is not the question I asked and I would like an honest reply on the above question.
        From your response I take it that you're indicating 'death' by 'demise'. Wishing for the demise of a person is a feeling that is triggered from necessity, not unfounded desire (unless you're not normal, and your attitude raises some doubts). I interpret 'appreciating the end result' in the sense that I appreciate the fact that a dictator that was killing my people cannot do anymore harm. How do you interpret 'appreciation', going to the pub and celebrating death?
        Next you will have me organising a grand party at the Hilton for “someone's” death.
        Quite comical, but you can't turn that back on me. It was not me, but you who clearly admitted to celebrating the death of others by going to the pub. Where you take people for such an event is not my concern.
        .........I suspect you were trying to 'lure' me into a trap of stupidity........
        I don't have to lure you to stupidity, you're already all too familiar with the concept.
        How do you explain why the following songs are very, very popular with Macedonians?
        What is most disturbing, aside from your delusion, is how you're trying to present patriotic Macedonian songs set in a specific context as an ode to murder. Your interpretation of these songs is that of a simpleton, and not of an individual with any logical understanding of circumstance and relevance.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • indigen
          Senior Member
          • May 2009
          • 1558

          #49
          SOM
          I will stop that sentence at 'IMO', because it seems that your 'O' (like the rest of your 'O's), is based on a deliberately misconstrued statement. Nowhere have I said that I don't have an interest or connection to the incident where Australians have died, and I detest such a cheap and idiotic insinuation - I said I don't have connection to or an interest in the politics and/or society of Bali.
          I dare say you are unlikely to concede any ideological mistakes unless you have absolutely no room to escape and it won't be very productive to argue with you on this point.

          Now, if you're done creating fictional scenarios for the purpose of developing an argument, try and enter the real world.
          I would say that is more your speciality but never mind.

          From your response I take it that you're indicating 'death' by 'demise'. Wishing for the demise of a person is a feeling that is triggered from necessity, not unfounded desire (unless you're not normal, and your attitude raises some doubts).
          “BOG DA GI BIE I UBIE PREDAVNICTE” (Mila Makedonijo) by Vojo Stojanovski and winner of 1997 Goce Fest! Was it “unfounded desire” or “feeling of necessity”? You need to reflect on the political conditions prevailing in Macedonia between 1994-1998 when commenting on events from that time.

          I interpret 'appreciating the end result' in the sense that I appreciate the fact that a dictator that was killing my people cannot do anymore harm. How do you interpret 'appreciation', going to the pub and celebrating death?
          Still clutching at a straw man issue, I see! First, it was 1995 and there was still some hope left for the Macedonian Cause and it was more like a celebration of political resistance against the dictatorship that existed in those years (94-98) and against a massive attack on the Macedonian identity and entity. FYI, despite our hopes, NOBODY WAS DEAD and NOBODY DIED, sadly!

          Next you will have me organising a grand party at the Hilton for “someone's” death.
          Quite comical, but you can't turn that back on me. It was not me, but you who clearly admitted to celebrating the death of others by going to the pub. Where you take people for such an event is not my concern.
          You need to check the facts first before assuming that is the case. But I understand that Vlado Crnozemski is your hero and we know what he is famous for. Thus if you can appreciate assassination of someone, I fail to see what the difference is except that you do not fully appreciate the actual damage done by such internal traitors and izrodi as Dosta Dimovska and Ljubcho Georgievski, amongst the rest.

          Secondly, I would certainly celebrate if we had a meaningful political victory along the way but there is little to celebrate these days and I only get slight personal satisfaction that one of the most malicious anti-Macedonian Bulgarian agents is off the political scene.


          I don't have to lure you to stupidity, you're already all too familiar with the concept.
          I can't argue with you since you are all knowing and beyond reproach.


          How do you explain why the following songs are very, very popular with Macedonians?
          What is most disturbing, aside from your delusion, is how you're trying to present patriotic Macedonian songs set in a specific context as an ode to murder.
          Murder? The delusions are in your head, me thinks! The context they are presented in is in relation to events in 1993/95 (though there are reinterpretations in order to apply to later political events).

          Feeling similar to this in 1995, when there was still some hope left of a win:


          And now (post 2001-2004) feeling would be even less than this:


          Your interpretation of these songs is that of a simpleton, and not of an individual with any logical understanding of circumstance and relevance.
          I would say there are a lot well educated and ignorant fools around who think too highly of themselves, but that is just another one of my “Os”!

          The state of Macedonian national affairs today makes me feel like this:

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #50
            Originally posted by Indigen
            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon
            It was not me, but you who clearly admitted to celebrating the death of others by going to the pub.
            You need to check the facts first before assuming that is the case.
            Straight from the horse's mouth:
            Originally posted by Indigen
            I and a few Macedonian mates went for celebration drinks in 1995 when we thought some patriots had done the deed on Gligorov.........
            Perhaps it was a kafana instead of a pub.

            I was at a vecherinka on the day (or day after, can't exactly recall) when Trajkovski died. The MC of the event announced what had happened, and asked everybody to stand in a moment of silence. I remained seated in my chair. I didn't feel that his death was a reason to celebrate or personally mourn. I was indifferent in that regard. However, I was satisfied with the fact that such a traitor would no longer be leading the country. I would have been equally satisfied had he just stepped down from the position and not died, with proceeding to follow. The difference in our opinions rests with your emphasis on the death of traitors. You want them to die, whereas I would be happy for them to leave office and be prosecuted for their treason. Perhaps if Macedonia was involved in an actual physical war or if our people were being frequently killed, I would view things differently as circumstances dictate.
            I would certainly celebrate if we had a meaningful political victory along the way......
            There was no meaningful political victory in the incident concerning Gligorov, because he did not leave office for another 4 years. Furthermore, the name and flag change remained, during and after. If it was a message for other traitors to be aware, I don't think it sunk in.
            But I understand that Vlado Crnozemski is your hero and we know what he is famous for. Thus if you can appreciate assassination of someone, I fail to see what the difference is except that you do not fully appreciate the actual damage done by such internal traitors and izrodi as Dosta Dimovska and Ljubcho Georgievski, amongst the rest.
            Crnozemski assasinated a dictator who was head of a repressive regime in Macedonia that committed several atrocities against the Macedonian people. Both the circumstances of the times and the damage inflicted differ when comparing Alexander Karadjordjevic with Dosta Dimovska.
            The state of Macedonian national affairs today makes me feel like this
            We all feel the pain, Indigen, but that doesn't mean reason and logic must be thrown out of the window, or that appropriate and proportionate reactions should be discounted.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • indigen
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 1558

              #51
              Originally posted by Serdarot View Post
              jas licno sum "ekstremist" za vakvi raboti. Ekstremist vo >> " << zato sho ne go gledam to kako ekstremizam.

              Koj si zel za pravo da si igra so sudbinata na svojot sopstven Narod, i so idninata na mojte deca, ne zasluzhuva nikakva milost.

              Odzemanje na imot, i dozhivotna teshka robija i prisilna rabota (kamenolom ili rudnik)

              Za zabrani za vrshenje na javna dolznost i takvi gluposti ne pram ich muabet, da povtoram, DOZHIVOTNA robija, a ne galenje.

              Ne grujo, i grujojca ako saka da e. So nekoi raboti ne se igra. Celis na ramkovniot dogovor, i ne branam nikogo. Cesto i sam sebesi se preziram sho namesto da odam porano, i ako treba da zaginam borekji se za NEZAVISNA Makedonska Drzava, jas ostaviv da bidam izmanipuliran od razni "patrioti", odnosno ne gi procitav nivnite igri na vreme.

              Zato kako kazna, ziveam so ovaj sram i ova cuvstvo na gorchina, i niedna "blaga voda" ne mozat da mi ja ublazat bolkata.

              inache, ko sho odamna tvrdev deka ljuBco e kodosh, deka ljube e kodosh, taka i za miloshoski, odamna velam:

              - toj mnogu pokje raboti za BND nego za MNO! pa neka me tuzi, da mu ebam to majmuno... (BND = Bundes Nachricht Dients - germanskata informativna/tajna sluzba)



              BC pomiluva obvinet za stopanski / ekonomski kriminal, ushte vo istrazhna postapka. Zoran Zaev, za kriminal tezhok ~ 8 milioni evra.

              To e NEVIDEN primer do sega vo svetot. A doprva ke izleguvaat aferi na videlo.

              Za da se svati koj i oti krieshe tolku mnogu raboti, treba da se prasa prvo: oti bc ne e vo zatvor? ima tolku mnogu aferi, koi se i povekje od dokazhani...

              I ako ne mozi da se najdi odgovor na to prashanje, probaj so mojov odgovor:

              RoM ne e Nezavisna drzava, tuku marioneta, klasichna "banana republika".

              "Sozdadena"* od Miloshevic i nekolku drugi "faktori", so povekje nameni.

              Sverc so droga, nafta, cigari, krshenje na predvidenoto embargo, odnosno sluzenje na srpskite (potochno Miloshevicevite) interesi, sluzenje kako eksperimentalno gluvce na germancite i amerikancite, itn, itn...

              Nakratko recheno, ako sme realni, nie Makedoncite PAK nemame drzava...

              Laznite Komunisti ni napravija "take-over", i Makedonskata drzava prekina da postoi so doagjanjeto na partijata koja beshe PROTIV nashata samostojnost. Istata taa partija (skm-pdp, denes poznata kako SDSM), denes se proglasuva za "drzavotvorna partija", odnosno TIE se tie koi ja naprajle Makedonija da bidi nezavisna drzava...

              Da ne znajs dali da gi preziras, ili da gi preziras i da gi tepash...

              * = referendumot na 8mi septemvri beshe jasen glas na Narodot, megjutoa ne beshe potreben. SFRJ legalno-pravno prestana da postoi so izlezot na Slovenija od Federacijata, so sho Socijalisticka Republika Makedonija, koja i do togash beshe Drzava, no vo Federacija, stana Drzava bez Federacija, odnosno Nezavisna Drzava. Referendumot samo go potvrdi toa.
              Se vo pravo si! Mozhebi kje imam razlika za nachin na kaznuvanje na krupnite predavnici no se drugo ti e na mesto. Well stated, Serdare!

              -----------

              I bring this post over from the other thread as it is indicative of how others feel towards traitors.

              Comment

              • indigen
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 1558

                #52
                Originally posted by julie View Post
                In death, one cannot repent their sins. This woman may have been a traitor to the Macedonian cause, has received her karma dying young from an illness.
                Indigen, I agree with your ideologies, however, you are showing your emotional immaturity by not acknowledging peoples families are not responsible for their actions. She may have had young children, and as SOM says, her parents may be grieving, and her partner in life, she may have had siblings.
                How can you justify someones actions and label their families in the same boat. That is very wrong. What I do in my life, my brother should not be tainted , that is very wrong of you.
                This woman has passed away, her karma is in her suffering. Dont take joy out of human suffering. She has received her penalty, and I extend my condolences to her relatives.
                Originally posted by julie View Post
                Originally Posted by Bill77 View Post
                As long as these dogs are still able to walk around with big grins on their faces, we will continue to be raped by our own.

                arno ni se praj koga sne zaspani. se chudam oti se ushte zivi? ajr da nevidat i gospod da mu plati ne samo na niv, i na site shto mu se najmili. da mu go ebam korenot.
                Arno velite site, ne samo smrt za niv, i smrt za tselo semjstvo, zhenite, i detsata, tseli rodnini, kurshum.
                I wanted to find this post earlier but I had no idea where it was located, and now that it has resurfaced, I place it here as a reminder to some about the old saying relating to rocks and living in glass houses.

                Comment

                • indigen
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 1558

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Louis Riel View Post
                  I know this was directed at Frank but let me take a stab at it

                  In no way should he be assassinated,he isnt worth it....i mean why should anyone risk their own freedom(possibly life) just to wipe this asshole out?

                  It'd be better if he died in a horrific accident,maybe an acme anvil can fall from the sky and crush him...something like that.
                  Very common and NATURAL feeling for Macedonians!


                  YouTube - Petre Temelkovski - KLETVA GOLEMA i ednakva na sramot!

                  Kletvata e skraten izvadok od filmot/monodramata na Petre Temelkovski - Philip II of Macedon (Part1).

                  "....Makedoncite, vo vremeto na Filip II, bea izrasteni vo edna gorda i samosvesna nacija, koja so prezir gledase na Elinite. Ovoj fakt e od golemo znacenje za proucuvanje na podocneznata makedonska istorija!

                  Makedon, tatko moj, ova li e moeto pokolenie?

                  Jas, Filip II, Car na Makedonija, deneska na 24-ti zlatec, 7507-to leto, vo grobot vo Kutlesh se prevrtuvam i poradi sramot so imeto nagrdeno na drzavata, gi prokolnuvam predavnicte od rodot moj so KLETVA GOLEMA i ednakva na sramot;

                  IZRODI EDNI, prokletstvo neka ve prati za celiot zivot
                  Site nebesni molnji, vrz glavite vasi prazni neka se strupolat
                  Do sto postoi zlo, na vekov i na svetov, vo vas da se vklesti
                  Krasti i uleri strupesti, dusite prodadeni da vi gi vadat
                  Krokodili ostrozabi, utrobata da vi ja raskinat
                  Orli krstantni na karpa vzestena, trupovite da vi gi cerecat
                  Bogovite sevisni, padnat na kolena od grobot gi molam
                  Seta kolnatija, nebesna i zemna, i na ovoj i na toj vek tamu
                  Vrz vas da ja isturat, IZRODI EDNI!
                  Sto ja turnavte Makedonija vo propast da ponira
                  So pristanot vas, IMETO SVETO i ZNAMETO da i go poganat
                  Sto se glavivte tugji VAZALI da bidete
                  Ja ostavivte drzavata na milost i nemilost
                  Bez IME, bez ZNAME, bez ZAKON, bez KRUNA, bez PRESTOL i bez CAR!...."

                  Comment

                  • indigen
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2009
                    • 1558

                    #54
                    Originally posted by indigen View Post
                    РАБОТЕН МАТЕРИЈАЛ
                    (забрането објавување без дозвола на авторот)

                    РАСКОЛОТ ВО ВМРО-ДПМНЕ


                    Јули – Август 1998 година
                    С к о п ј е

                    Кон крајот на август 1997 год., поточно по седницата на ЦК на ВМРО ДПМНЕ што се одржа на 30.08.1997 г. Во Собранието на Град Скопје, во македонската јавност како бомба одекна веста за жесток судир во највисокото раководство на најмоќната опозициона партија. За многумина судирот изби неочекувано и ненајавено (иако во минатото такви конфронтации во континуитетот ја следеа партијата од самото основање) бидејќи токму во претходните година-две ВМРО-ДПМНЕ важеше за една од најстабилните политички партии во време кога во речиси сите останати партии ескалираа отворени судири во нивните редови ( СДСМ, Социјалистичката партија, ЛДП и т.н.).

                    Хронологијата на настаните непосредно пред, во текот и по одлуката на “историската” седница на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ е горе-долу позната: 54 членови на Централниот комитет согласно член 52 од Статутот на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ покренуваат барање за отповикување на потпретседателката Доста Димовска (поради отворено протежирање на пробугарска политика, неуживање углед, односно нејзин избор по пат на фалсификат и нејзино активно учество во речиси сите афери што ја потресуваа Партијата), а група членови на Унијата на млади сили на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ поднесуваат Предлог-Резолуција со која партијата се оградува од сите врховизми.

                    По неколкучасовна бурна и мачна расправа, во атмосфера на борба “секој против секого”, со редица врховистички, шовинистички, па и фашистички испади и со отворено спротивставување на лидерот Љубчо Георгиевски кон двете иницијативи, епилогот беше логичен и очекуван. Барањето за отповикување и Предлог-Резолуцијата воопшто не се ставени на дневен ред, а Извршниот комитет во полн состав (освен претседателот) режирано поднесува колективна оставка. Една недела подоцна, Георгиевски, веќе во улога на своевиден нов “фирер”, вонстатутарно и насилнички го руши раководството на УМС, а следната недела набрзина склепаниот и битно изменет состав на ЦК избира нов Извршен комитет во кој влегоа некои безвучни имиња со звучни докторски титули, како своевиден параван за вистинската суштина на промените кои се случија во ВМРО-ДПМНЕ. За карактерот на врховистичкиот пир што се случи на самата седница ги нотираме изјавите на неколку членови на ИК: Дореана Христова член на ИК- “Голем број странски новинари пројавуваат огромен интерес за положбата на македонските Бугари во Македонија – Треба да дојде до помирување мегу нашиот (бугарскиот – заб. а) и вашиот (македонскиот -заб.а) народ; Марјан Ѓорчев, член на ИК: “Генс унус сумус” или “Еден народ сме” (омилена изјава на бугарските шовинисти - “Та ние сме еден народ!”), Ѓорѓи Наумов, член на ИК: “Да не беше Тодор Александров јас ќе се презивав Родомировиќ!”, Љубчо Георгиевски:” Што лошо сте виделе од Бугарија” и т.н.

                    Случајот сакаше да скандалот што се случи на ЦК веднаш отиде во јавноста, а средствата за јавно информирање бидат преплавени со детални пикантерии за се она што се случуваше пред, за време и по фамозната седница на ЦК. Наогајќи се во “небрано” двоецот Георгиевски-Димовска набрзина исфрла неколку тези за јавноста со кои прозирно се настојуваше да се сокрие заднината на судирот, дека се работи за персонален судир во раководството, за судир на “интелектуално” и “рурално” крило, за отстранување на “бизнис-полициско” крило и сл.

                    Ступидноста, провидноста и неаргументираноста на овие тези беа прочитани и од јавноста и од медиумите, а неколкуте документи кои проциркулираа во јавноста беа доволен доказ да се свати дека се работи за далеку посуптилен проблем кој по своето значење ги надминува партиските рамки и навлегува длабоко во сверата на националните и државните интереси на македонскиот народ и неговата држава Република Македонија.

                    Имено, сознанијата, податоците и аргументите со кои располагаме, иако можеби нецелосни, сепак се доволни да се извлече логичен заклучок дека се работи за судир на две опозитни опции – едната автентична – македонска како директен следбеник на историската мисија на ВМРО и втората, тугинска, бугарско-врховистичка која и низ историјата постојано го следела ВМРО во неговата борба за создавање македонска држава и која како по правило, претставувала пречка за остварување на вековниот идеал. (за создавање независна или обединета Македонија). Во судирот на тие две опции, како што е познато, победи онаа врховистичката, и тоа благодарение пред се на некои ирационални мотиви во кои бездруго спаѓаат харизмата на лидерот Љ. Георгиевски и неговата фанатична и жестока одбрана на својот ментор уште од студентските денови – Доста Димовска, како и латентно присутниот страв на членството од евентуалниот распад или раскол на Партијата, иманентен за секоја партија што се наоѓа во длабока опозиција и постојано е изложена на репресалии од страна на владеачката номенкулатура. Тука лежи и одговорот зошто поголемиот дел од потписници на барањето за отповикување на потпретседателката Д. Димовска кои при потпишувањето отворено зборуваа за нејзино бугарско педигре, на седницата на ЦК при изборот на новиот врховистички Извршен комитет, ја наведнаа главата, се повлекоа ипремолчно го одобрија чинот на самопогребување и на своето национално достоинство и на сопствената Партија.

                    [.....]

                    Кон средината на 1993 година Димовска заедно со Димитар Галев и бугарскиот амбасадор во РМ Ангел Димитров го организираат формирањето на т.н. “Движење за пријателство меѓу Република Македонија и Република Бугарија”. На основачкото собрание кое се одржа во просториите на Собранието на град Скопје на кое во присуство на осведочените бугаромани во Македонија, во ниеден говор или документ воопшто не беше споменато постоењето на македонскиот народ. Паѓа во очи дека во серијата вакви друштва за пријателство меѓу македонскиот народ и другите народи (македонско-хрватското, македонско-еврејското, македонско-американското, македонско-српското и т.н.) единствено ова е “Движење...” и тоа за пријателство, но не меѓу народите, туку меѓу државите! Според замислата на Димитар Галев кој беше избран за претседател на “Движењето...” истото имало за цел активно да работи за бришење и релативизирање на сите културни, јазични, етнички, историски и друг вид разлики меѓу македонскиот и бугарскиот народ и нивно стопување во единствена бугарска нација.


                    [....]

                    For fair use only.

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                    Info on how the bugaromani organised, schemed, infiltrated and finally took over VMRO-DPMNE in 1997, with Dosta Dimovska and LjuBcho Georgievski as the two leading actors in the plot!
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                    Intervju na 3zzz so Gorgi Hristov OMO Ilinden Pirin -"Dosta Dimovska bila Bugarka"

                    YouTube - Intervju na 3zzz so Gorgi Hristov OMO Ilinden Pirin -"Dosta Dimovska bila Bugarka"

                    Comment

                    • Bill77
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 4545

                      #55
                      Indigen, You seem to like bringing up Patriotic songs such as,"Goce Arnaudov-Prokleti da se predavnicite" and there is another i don't think you've posted yet by Mile Kuzmanovski "Ispravise MAKEDONIO" which i think is a great song.

                      My question is, would you classify these singers as Patriots?
                      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                      Comment

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