Dosta Dimovska passes away

[Big Bad Sven]

Good riddance to bad rubbish i say

I hope she Burns in hell with Ivan Mihailov and other bugaroman sell outs

Maybe one day our government will appoint true macedonians in pirin macedonia to help our oppressed people there

[julie]

In death, one cannot repent their sins. This woman may have been a traitor to the Macedonian cause, has received her karma dying young from an illness.
Indigen, I agree with your ideologies, however, you are showing your emotional immaturity by not acknowledging peoples families are not responsible for their actions. She may have had young children, and as SOM says, her parents may be grieving, and her partner in life, she may have had siblings.
How can you justify someones actions and label their families in the same boat. That is very wrong. What I do in my life, my brother should not be tainted , that is very wrong of you.
This woman has passed away, her karma is in her suffering. Dont take joy out of human suffering. She has received her penalty, and I extend my condolences to her relatives.

[George S.]

I can see your view points but at the end this woman has paid the penalty of just dying.
We should still show some compassion & dignity in death.I think it should be towards the families as they probably aren't responsible for her.The bit that gets me & almost everyone
is the forgiving & forgetting that is left to the individual.Both Julie & Vangelovski all make valid points.As i said in death they have gone through the ultimitate point of non return.
I can also understand where BBS is coming it's not easy to forgive & forget.

[indigen]

'Many' people engage in beastiality as well, but I don't see you doing it? Just because someone else does it, that is not a justification.

Sorry if it goes against your religious beliefs but that is where I stand! As you can see above, there are "Narodni Pesni" and contemporary patriotic compilations (which are ascending to be regarded as traditional folk songs) that call on traitors and enemies to be killed by God and which are very popular amongst Macedonians (and I am one of those). Very simple, really!

But you still have not explained to me what is so special about yourself.

I never claimed I was special anything.

Why celebrate the death of someone because of their failure to meet their individual responsibilities,

Those guilty of HIGH TREASON deserve their just deserts.

when you yourself are guilty of the same, unless you are making a claim to perfection?

Where have I committed treason or high treason?

Further, I would not want to be a part of any cause that does not value human life.

We all will find our own path but the struggle is not going anywhere fast and I am not part of your organisation and thus you need not worry yourself too much, mate.

Such a cause would be nothing more than blatant totalitarianism and a rejection of the most fundamental of all natural rights - right to life.

Don't go and stress out too much about my gut feelings on (wishing) seeking that those guilty of HIGH TREASON being awarded death sentences because the power to do that is a long, long, long way off (or should I say next to non-existent) and only our curses and wishes that God may "kill" them are what is left.

Some more examples natural (in the circumstances) human behaviour, IMO:

Execution and Death Benito Mussolini 1945


YouTube - The Executions of Benito Mussolini and Clara Petacci
Mussolini Executed By Italian Partisans April 28th, 45.

http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/41364-mussolini-executed-italian-partisans-april-28th-45-a.html

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Execution of Mussolini

http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm

Iraqi policemen and soldiers chant slogans as they celebrate the guilty verdict against former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein on Sunday in the Shiite holy city of Najaf south of Baghdad, Iraq.

[indigen]

In death, one cannot repent their sins. This woman may have been a traitor to the Macedonian cause, has received her karma dying young from an illness.
Indigen, I agree with your ideologies, however, you are showing your emotional immaturity by not acknowledging peoples families are not responsible for their actions. She may have had young children, and as SOM says, her parents may be grieving, and her partner in life, she may have had siblings.
How can you justify someones actions and label their families in the same boat. That is very wrong. What I do in my life, my brother should not be tainted , that is very wrong of you.
This woman has passed away, her karma is in her suffering. Dont take joy out of human suffering. She has received her penalty, and I extend my condolences to her relatives.

Julie, before you go off half-cocked about what I am supposed to have said please quote the passage (in context) and then comment.

[Risto the Great]

The Ilinden Macedonians offered justice when it was required. People guilty of treason should not have been given a free pass much less representing Macedonia abroad.

Interesting story about Mussolini. I was having dinner with clients and met their parents, some lovely (senior) Italian people. The woman told me of how cheeky Mussolini used to be. He came from her same village and he would always annoy the older girls. The woman told me how she would give him a clip over the ear whenever he got out of hand. Pity she didn't finish him there and then.

[makedonin]

Humans are cruel when they pursue their interests which are most of the time in direct conflict with the interests of the other human fellows. Facing the suffering caused by the cruelty they invent abstractions such as "morals" to somehow alleviate hostility arising from such direct opposed competing ideologies.

No end of that story.

So I can't understand why are all upset with the honesty of Indigen, that is not a surprise. He is just being honest about his sentiment which results from his extreme stance on many national matters, thats all. Others have had the sentiment in the past as well, nothing new or big deal about it.

[Vangelovski]

Sorry if it goes against your religious beliefs but that is where I stand! As you can see above, there are "Narodni Pesni" and contemporary patriotic compilations (which are ascending to be regarded as traditional folk songs) that call on traitors and enemies to be killed by God and which are very popular amongst Macedonians (and I am one of those). Very simple, really!

You're the only one that has brought up my religious beliefs. I thought it would be quite simple in that human life has value, whether one subscribes to a particular faith or not.

I never claimed I was special anything.

Those guilty of HIGH TREASON deserve their just deserts.

Where have I committed treason or high treason?

Why is it that a person's death deserves to be celebrated just because they were guilty of treason? I can understand indifference, but celebration?

Regardless, it is a hypocritical position. You indeed may not be guilty of treason, and I was not referring to that, but to the fact that you are guilty of something (as is everyone). So, shall we celebrate your eventual death because of your guilt? What makes your guilt different to that of anyone else's and why is it that we should celebrate their deaths and not yours?

Don't go and stress out too much about my gut feelings on (wishing) seeking that those guilty of HIGH TREASON being awarded death sentences because the power to do that is a long, long, long way off (or should I say next to non-existent) and only our curses and wishes that God may "kill" them are what is left.

You seek death for those that have committed treason yet you are not willing to carry out the deed yourself. That is another hypocritical position that you have revealled and a dangerous one at that. I don't see how you could truly seek Macedonian freedom while at the same time calling for the death penalty for those that may not necessarily agree with you. That is no better than our totalitarian oppressors which we are supposed to be resisting, not recreating.

Indigen, wishing that God 'kill' your enemies will only add to your own list of charges, which are worthy of death in themselves (according to God's law, whom you have now brought into the debate).

[Mastika]

Even if he does not, and dies a traitor, it is no reason to celebrate. Nothing is gained by their death.

I, unusually, have to agree with Indigen on this issue. A lot is actually gained by the death of traitors. It means that the various comments/actions as detailed in post #3 of this thread will never be repeated by that individual again. Is that not a gain?

That being said, her family should (as is reasonable) have the chance to mourn and greive.

You seek death for those that have committed treason yet you are not willing to carry out the deed yourself. That is another hypocritical position that you have revealled and a dangerous one at that. I don't see how you could truly seek Macedonian freedom while at the same time calling for the death penalty for those that may not necessarily agree with you. That is no better than our totalitarian oppressors which we are supposed to be resisting, not recreating.

It is not hypocritical, it is simply a belief that those actively traitorous to Macedonia should be subject to greater punishment. I also believe, that for high treason, and a few other offence (serial killing, child rape) capital punishment should be enforced.

If we are going to bring Christian values into this, then it should be remebered that for nearly 2,000 Christian societies actively used capital punishment.

[Bill77]

I, unusually, have to agree with Indigen on this issue. A lot is actually gained by the death of traitors. It means that the various comments/actions as detailed in post #3 of this thread will never be repeated by that individual again. Is that not a gain?

Well if anything, the feeling that should be expressed is a sense of relief and the focus should be on that there is less burden on the shoulders of Macedonia, and not on the individual now that she's gone. We don't need to dance on her grave and celebrate she died, a simple imprisonment would have had the same effect if its about actions never be repeated again.

[Vangelovski]

I, unusually, have to agree with Indigen on this issue. A lot is actually gained by the death of traitors. It means that the various comments/actions as detailed in post #3 of this thread will never be repeated by that individual again. Is that not a gain?

That being said, her family should (as is reasonable) have the chance to mourn and greive.

It is not hypocritical, it is simply a belief that those actively traitorous to Macedonia should be subject to greater punishment. I also believe, that for high treason, and a few other offence (serial killing, child rape) capital punishment should be enforced.

If we are going to bring Christian values into this, then it should be remebered that for nearly 2,000 Christian societies actively used capital punishment.

Mastika, I never disputed captial punishment (even though I'm not entirely convinced that it can be justly implemented - there is always room for error). I was disputing the claim that the death of someone is reason to celebrate. We are all guilty of something and noone can lay claim to some special status where they are morally justified in celebrating the death of another.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I asked, seeing how humane you are and that you think death should be mourned, whether you would have considered sending condolences to the Bali Bombers' families when they were executed but NO ANSWER from you. Give me an answer and don't beat about the bush!

The answer was already given, don't blame me for your inability to see what is clearly written on the wall. As a human I would offer any person condolences for their loss should I feel it appropriate (even if they are from Bali, although I don't have a connection to or an interest in their politics and/or society, so I didn't feel the need to), but that doesn't automatically equate to compassion for the one that was lost.

Your effort to try and 'lure' me into a statement which is sympathetic to murderers and terrorists is amatuerish at best, and pathetic at worst. What do you take me for? Who do you think you're speaking to?

What is the difference between wishing someone's demise and appreciating the end result when the wish comes true?

I was drawing distinction between indifference and celebration. Are you talking about something else now? Define 'demise'.

How do you explain why the following songs are very,very popular with Macedonians?

Which of those songs talks about celebrating a death of a person by going to the pub? In what circumstances are those songs set? What century do you live in? I am interested in your answers, because as you have shown in the past, some of your suggestions and interpretations are far removed from reality.

Are you trying to incite criminal acts here?

Oh please, get real. Rather than popping open a bottle of champers in celebration of someone's death, why don't you do the deed yourself, given that you feel so strongly about it? It was a question, not an incitement, do yourself a favour by avoiding words that you're unfamiliar with. I fear that I have made a mistake in giving your intellect far too much credit, as your lack of maturity clearly dominates over the rest of your characteristics.

[Prolet]

Prolet, get your head out of the clouds, Gruevski is too scared to even mention the Macedonians in Pirin. Why is that?

I've been asking that question for years now, we've seen some progress on the Macedonians in Egejska Makedonija and many of our people there come to Macedonia, in the last 2-3 years there has been alot of cooperation with our people in Mala Prespa and the rest of the Albanian region where our people live but we havnt heard nothing about Pirinska Makedonija, its very disappointing.

[makedonin]

its very disappointing.

Not just disappointing, but highly suspicious as well I would say...

[George S.]

we don't seem to know what is happening with pirin macedonia does anyone know???