Slave Mentality

[Vangelovski]

Yes, I read your Framework Agreement analysis...however, don't get me started on both your English and logic used in that paper. You're facts were pretty solid, though.

Victor, other than providing childish anti-Macedonian comments that have no basis in reality, you would not be able to contribute anything. As for my English, don't pretend that you come even close to my level - I'm going to have to send you a dictionary for your birthday.

[vicsinad]

I think I need to send you a grammar book. Second sentence has a classic mistake made by most novices:

"Initially, it was difficult to determine the goals of the NLA as they varied widely..."

What varied -- the NLA or the goals? Sure, common sense dictates that the "goals" varied. However, to make your sentence as grammatically correct and as clear as possible, it should be worded:

"Initially, it was difficult to determine the NLA's goals, as they varied widely..."

It's okay...people without an excellent grasp of English grammar make this mistake all the time...it's understandable both you and your peers missed it.

[Vangelovski]

I think I need to send you a grammar book. Second sentence has a classic mistake made by most novices:

"Initially, it was difficult to determine the goals of the NLA as they varied widely..."

What varied -- the NLA or the goals? Sure, common sense dictates that the "goals" varied. However, to make your sentence as grammatically correct and as clear as possible, it should be worded:

"Initially, it was difficult to determine the NLA's goals, as they varied widely..."

It's okay...people without an excellent grasp of English grammar make this mistake all the time...it's understandable both you and your peers missed it.

Victor, its your inability to comprehend English that is the problem, not the sentence. The subject matter is the "goals" and that is quite obvious. The clarification "of the NLA" does not change the subject matter, it simply provides additional information related to the subject matter "goals". But now you're getting seriously off the topic of this thread and I will be doing some cleaning up, including my responses to your crap, so don't go being the eternal victim.

[vicsinad]

Just wanted to help make your work a whole lot better because the Framework Agreement Analysis topic is closed.

PS: "NLA" is singular..."they" is plural.... they don't belong next to each other no matter where you put the subject of the sentence.

[Vangelovski]

Just wanted to help make your work a whole lot better because the Framework Agreement Analysis topic is closed.

PS: "NLA" is singular..."they" is plural.... they don't belong next to each other no matter where you put the subject of the sentence.

They in that sentence is referring to the 'goals', which is even more obvious when you take the WHOLE sentence into consideration and not just the part of the sentence that you quoted here. Your not only having trouble with your English, but you're being intellectually dishonest as well.

[vicsinad]

They in that sentence is referring to the 'goals', which is even more obvious when you take the WHOLE sentence into consideration and not just the part of the sentence that you quoted here. Your not only having trouble with your English, but you're being intellectually dishonest as well.

No, I'm not. You don't need the whole sentence to see the flaw. You just need that part. However, I understand they mainly train PhD students to do research.

It's alright, though -- I also understand that when your ego is high, it's hard to see your mistakes or take advice from somebody else. But I believe the Bible has some advice about that...what is it, the pride comes before the fall?

[vicsinad]

They in that sentence is referring to the 'goals', which is even more obvious when you take the WHOLE sentence into consideration and not just the part of the sentence that you quoted here. Your not only having trouble with your English, but you're being intellectually dishonest as well.

In addition, wording it the correct way eliminates two excess words: "of" and "the". These two words add little to nothing to explain any point in your sentence, so why not eliminate them when the opportunity arises? (of course, you have to know grammar well enough to catch those little stinkers!) It shortens your sentences (making it easier on the reader) and makes it more concise. It also make the sentence flow better.

Once the writer realizes his writing is not about himself but rather about his reader (I believe we had this discussion earlier about you not knowing how to put yourself in someone else's shoes), then he can truly master his writing. Until then...sorry Tom.

Then again...who except the author, his adviser(s), and someone doing research for his own PhD work read articles in publications or journals?

[Vangelovski]

Victor, first you alluded that the sentence was grammatically incorrect. Now you are back tracking and suggesting that it just sounds better your way. Maybe it does, but your claim that it was grammatically incorrect and not obvious what the subject matter was is plain stupid, particularly when taking the WHOLE sentence into consideration, rather than just the part of the sentence that you cut out.

I know logic and consistency is not one of your strengths and that is why you jump around like a ping-pong ball.

Its obvious that YOU don't read academic journals, which is demonstrated in your thought-process and (lack of) understanding of the issues you like to post on and then ignore once your shown for the fool that you really are.

[vicsinad]

Epa...the first thing you're supposed to do is read someone's first sentence. Mine started out like this:

"In addition, wording it the correct way..."

And logic (have you used it yet?) also dictates that I was explaining the reasons as to why the way I suggested it was the correct way. One reason (among many) is that it sounds better.

So no, not back-tracking. Just explaining, because some members (you) need further clarification. It's a comprehension thing, I get it.

[Vangelovski]

Victor, other than saying that you think it would sound better, you have not actually established why you believe the sentence is grammatically incorrect. The use of words that do not necessarily need to be there does not in and of itself make the sentence grammatically incorrect. This is your biggest problem - you pretend to know what you're on about when you clearly don't.

Further, regardless of your claim, your whole post, by failing to make a case for grammatical error and relying only on your personal preference for conciseness is a demonstration of your backtracking.

[vicsinad]

Believe it or not (you don't, because you only believe what suits your point of view), wordiness is a grammar issue. Thus, wordiness equates to poor grammar.

As I also explained, you don't put a plural by a singular (you don't put "they" next to "NLA" (even though it's pretty cool how they rhyme)). Most readers will understand that you meant the "they" to be associated with the "goals." However, some will be tripped up and have to take an extra second or two to re-read the beginning of that sentence...not because they have comprehension issues, but because the sentence could have used better grammar.

[vicsinad]

Let's edit paragraph two...for the grammar/punctuation mistakes you and your peers missed.

The original:

"Eventually, under the guidance of the European Union representative, Francois Leotard, the NLA focussed it goals on increased collective rights within the existing Macedonian state. This became the basis for the Framework Agreement, which was reluctantly agreed to by the two largest Macedonian political parties and the two largest Albanian political parties, under pressure from the United States and the European Union. Following this, the Framework Agreement was quickly incorporated into the Macedonian Constitution as an amendment without public consultation and gradually implemented through various legislative reforms."

A better version:

"Eventually, under European Union Representative Francois Leotard's guidance, the NLA focused on increased collective rights within the existing Macedonian state. This became the basis for the Framework Agreement, which the two largest Macedonian and two largest Albanian political parties reluctantly agreed to because of United States and E.U. pressure. The Macedonian Government then incorporated, without public consultation, the Agreement into Macedonia's Constitution and gradually implemented it through legislative reforms."

Certainly, it could even be made better than this. But a good writer with a good grasp of the English language will spend as many minutes as necessary making sure each word is completely necessary and does the job better than another word or no word...especially when getting an article published. It takes time and practice, but you'll get there, Tom. You'll get there, I have faith. When you're a slave to your ego, it's hard to get things done the right way. But supposedly we all have trouble with some version of the slave mentality; hopefully you can free yourself from yours...

[Vangelovski]

Victor, "wordiness" does not constitute incorrect grammar. Do some basic research. Secondly, your pathetic attempt to hide your revelation that you believe Greeks in Egej have a legitimate claim to Aegean Macedonia and the logical outcome that has for the Macedonian identity, culture and history is over. I've given you plenty of leeway with your BS uninformed grammar posts, but the warning I gave you at the very beginning still stands. Keep it relevant or it will be deleted.

If you have an comments of substance (which you obviously don't) about the Framework Agreement, start a new thread.

[Zarni]

I suggest you all get out of the Country and live and Macedonia for at least 6 months and do your bit to enlighten the locals a farken endless debate really

[makedonche]

Just to get back on the topic of this thread, I liken the Slave Mentality to the way they train baby elephants at a young age with a chain around its foot, the elephant learns that it's fruitless to try and break the chain and resolves itself to being permanently restrianed, even when it reaches maturity and can quite easily break the shackles it remains restrained.