What's in a name?

[johnMKD]

mail2onur wrote:"AND you never thought why they claimed to be Greek even tough they were only speaking Turkish and Macedonian??? Isn't that weird to you? Don`t you know the Greek policy towards Anatolian, Macedonian, Albanian people between 1915 to 1950s???"

The case between Turkey and Greece is another story, neighbour. My grantparents were expelled from Turkey, as many Turks were also expelled from Greece in 1922-1923. But, the problem is that they were expelled by the Turkish government for being Greeks, even though they were speaking Turkish. The only criterion used (I think) in that case was: religion. That's why they could identify themselves as Greeks.

[johnMKD]

mail2onur wrote:"So, this means that you are either brainwashed to say that you are %100 Greek OR you think that being %100 Greek requires to have half Macedonian and half Anatolian parents???? Which one??
You gotta be more reasonable and logic in your statements "komshu"..."

I have clearly written that everybody is what he feels he is. I'm 100% Greek, because I feel like that and because my grandparents told me so. A DNA test on the other hand, could identify me as 50% Turk, 50% Macedonian and 0% Greek. Do you get my point, neighbour?

[Onur]

The case between Turkey and Greece is another story, neighbour. My grantparents were expelled from Turkey, as many Turks were also expelled from Greece in 1922-1923. But, the problem is that they were expelled by the Turkish government for being Greeks, even though they were speaking Turkish. The only criterion used (I think) in that case was: religion. That's why they could identify themselves as Greeks.

Ohhh god help me... i think i got my own personal Mr."Spartan" no:2!!!



Anyway, JohnMKD, can you please read my earlier post about this issue;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=47836#post47836



Read all messages in that thread if you have some time. Then we can speak about population exchange issue, ok? You should read it because i am sure you will find some details in the documents which is unknown to you because of Greek propaganda of Turkish hate.

[johnMKD]

Ohhh god help me... i think i got my own personal Mr."Spartan" no:2!!!



Anyway, JohnMKD, can you please read my earlier post about this issue;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=47836#post47836



Read all messages in that thread if you have some time. Then we can speak about population exchange issue, ok? You should read it because i am sure you will find some details in the documents which is unknown to you because of Greek propaganda of Turkish hate.

I don't see where you disagree. However, I will be happy to read your thread and discuss later. I have read a lot already about Turkish history, because I like knowing the truth from all sides, my friend. If you're looking for narrow-minded people, you've knocked on the wrong door. Have you also tried to see how other see the same events? Sometimes, it's really amazing to see the differences!

[Spartan]

Ohhh god help me... i think i got my own personal Mr."Spartan" no:2!!!

Listen you mongol goof
I told you already, dont write my name in quotes!!
I always write your name out properly.
Show a little respect malaka.

[Onur]

I forgot that you hate quotes for some reason but dude, behave yourself ok?

I was never into this internet forum fight stuff otherwise i would call you as Ethiopian gypsy and wait for your answer... but no thanks :S

[Spartan]

^^You did that already, but I dont care.
Call me chinese, or whatever other ethnicity that comes to your head too if it makes you feel better.

Just dont write my name in quotes, as i do care about that.

Other than that i have no problem with you personally.

[Bratot]

Just dont write my name in quotes, as i do care about that.

So, what's in a name Spartan?

[fyrOM]

To explain what’s in a name 3 points need to be remembered.

1. Ruth from the bible. Your people are my people. Your god is my god.
Undoubtable people moved in and out of the geographic region known as Macedonia. Some would have intermarried. Are their offspring Macedonian or do we start counting fractions and percentages. People who are x might perceive themselves as Macedonian and see their children not as 50 percent Macedonian and 50 percent x but simply Macedonian. This then introduces the notion of leaning. The children might grow up identifying more with x and choose to move away to x or live in pocket communities who are predominantly x. or the children might grow up identifying as Macedonians and living in a majority Macedonian community might marry a Macedonian. Who or what is a Macedonian or any other nationality for that matter has an element of leaning or ones perceived self identity even if the underlying dna might say otherwise.

2. A People. To be a people a larger enough group must exist. Although individuals might move in and out of a group and their offspring might be slightly different but living within the group it is likely they will marry someone of the group. Survival dictates we need a group. Sometimes circumstances might move a group out of their traditional lands eg the Jews to Egypt as slaves. Whether or no a group maintains their identity is dependent on a number of factors. Will or determination is one and survival is the other. Sometimes these two oppose each other. We know of the gauls and franks and that the latter although not native became dominant and today the region France bears their name. from common observation I have formed certain theories. No doubt I am not the first. One strange observation is how many Macedonians have a redy shade of brown hear colour as apposed to a dark brown or black hair. This lead me to think that since the Macedonians are an extremely old group the red gene has some link to them. One could argue it was introduced later by people from the far north a kind of chicken and the egg problem. One documentary I saw a long time ago on genetics and human migration said the red gene probably originated in south eastern Europe and people with this gene had less chance of survival and as people moved across Europe to cooler climates their chance of survival increased. Genetics is hard to follow as people intermix over centuries but pocket communities who have lived in relative isolation give geneticists some clues. As genetics becomes more understood I wonder what it will tell us about distant groups like the Scots. Undoubtable Macedonians have had influences by their neighbours and more distant invading armies but one can see a group who have stood in this region for long enough and have continually identified as Macedonian keeping with them not only their genes but also other attributes of a people their language despite the millennia of reoccurring subjugation.

3. A Language. I am not a linguist but even I can understand does not have its roots in the far east Mongol Tatar regions. Understanding that Bulgarians are said to be of Tatar stock the comparisons and claims that Macedonian is a form of Bulgarian does not reconcile. Linguists as well as geneticist and palaeontologists have much to say about the Macedonians but I believe will have far more to say in the future if allowed to.

[Spartan]

@Bratot

Alot my friend, as both you and i know very well.
Be it personal name, or ethnic identifier....it is a source of pride, a knowledge of where one comes from, as well as an idicator of a shared history with those of the same name.

Anyways, on a forum such as this, its inevitable i will come across the name of my country and ethnicity written in quotes. I get it, people have anger towards greece, and they will express it....fair enough, I dont take it personally, nor do i let it bother me.....
nor would i respond by putting another nations name(or ethnicity) in quotations.
Thats just me.

However, in this instance, its my user name being put in quotes, not my country....so I take that as a personal insult, and highly offensive. As if Im a fake Spartan or something.
Now Im not claiming lineage to 1500 BC, but Im born, and partially raised in Sparta.... I would think thats enough to have my name written out ""s free.

PS

Looks like inter is going to the final.
If they make it there and win it, would Pandev be the first Macedonian to lift the CL trophy?
Worth looking into....


OziMak, your first point is excellent.
Thats pretty much my view on ethnicity in general, but i could never had expressed it so clearly.
well done.

[fyrOM]

Sorry about the cut and past error

3. A Language. I am not a linguist but even I can understand Macedonian does not have its roots in the far east Mongol Tatar regions. Understanding that Bulgarians are said to be of Tatar stock the comparisons and claims that Macedonian is a form of Bulgarian does not reconcile. Linguists as well as geneticist and palaeontologists have much to say about the Macedonians but I believe will have far more to say in the future if allowed to.

[Bratot]

@Bratot


PS

Looks like inter is going to the final.
If they make it there and win it, would Pandev be the first Macedonian to lift the CL trophy?
Worth looking into....

The second!

But I'm not so convinced they will do it... Barca is far from "out" after this game and you can never know.. the boring Germans are always near to ruin your party

[Spartan]

Interesting!
Whos the first, and with which club?

I also agree Barca can not me counted out, but id rather be Inter right now, lol

[Daskalot]

Listen you mongol goof
I told you already, dont write my name in quotes!!
I always write your name out properly.
Show a little respect malaka.

Onur, please refrain from writing someones name in "Abcde".

[Bratot]

Interesting!
Whos the first, and with which club?

I also agree Barca can not me counted out, but id rather be Inter right now, lol

Darko Pancev

Red Star Belgrade

He won the 'golden foot" or smt like that for the best scor.

He played for Inter later too

We have Jankulovski too.. but he is plaing for Czech unfortunately for us.